Here are the plants above after being up-potted into one-gallon pots.
Happy Frog and Rainwater only.
Happy Frog and Rainwater only.
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Rain water and tap water discussion
- Thread starter blondie
- Start date
When using Happy Frog and Rainwater only, you have to remember that the rainwater is the fertilizer. Every time the rainwater comes in contact with the Happy Frog the nutrients become soluble for microbe populations. If you give them a lot of water they will overpopulate and release too many salts for the plants. When too many salts are released the excess salts will suck moisture out of the plant burning the leaves. A good reason to keep soil dryer is that the nutrients last much longer in the pots. So it is better to be a little too dry, than too wet using Happy Frog and Rainwater only.
After transplanting into 1-gallon pots I waited 2 days before the first main watering. When I watered, I watered enough for a pour-through and caught some run-off for testing. Here's what the soil and rainwater yielded. This is Fox Farms Happy Frog and rainwater only.
pH is 5.6 with 4078 ppm or 6.9 EC
pH is 5.6 with 4078 ppm or 6.9 EC
Here's where some beginners like myself, make a mistake wanting to fix the pH by raising it or lowering the ppm with a flush thinking FoxFarms is too hot.
Don't raise the pH because the high ppm is "inactive" or "dormant" and won't burn the roots. The low pH adds a lot of needed hydrogen to the high ppm converting the EC faster for the plants. When seeds are planted and born in the same mix they grow in, using only rainwater they can tolerate low pH and a high organic EC. The Key is the seed must be born at low pH.
The high EC is not the same as high hydro EC and will last a long time with pure water. Over time the microbe population will convert the high EC into usable stuff the plant can use. So don't wash it out of the soil with every watering or with a flush. Using pure water and high EC the ppm lasts a long time giving the plant what it needs. When the EC drops down below 1000 ppm its time to up pot using the same soil.
Don't raise the pH because the high ppm is "inactive" or "dormant" and won't burn the roots. The low pH adds a lot of needed hydrogen to the high ppm converting the EC faster for the plants. When seeds are planted and born in the same mix they grow in, using only rainwater they can tolerate low pH and a high organic EC. The Key is the seed must be born at low pH.
The high EC is not the same as high hydro EC and will last a long time with pure water. Over time the microbe population will convert the high EC into usable stuff the plant can use. So don't wash it out of the soil with every watering or with a flush. Using pure water and high EC the ppm lasts a long time giving the plant what it needs. When the EC drops down below 1000 ppm its time to up pot using the same soil.
ON another note I also used RO water and tested a plant using the same method as above to compare it with rainwater. Same soil.
Heres RO water 3404 ppm with a 5.3 pH.
Heres RO water 3404 ppm with a 5.3 pH.
These plants have to have equal dry time to wet time for the microbes to complete their diet. Without enough dry time, the microbes and roots won't get the needed nitrates out of the air to convert into a food source.
As the soil drys out the pH rises by dropping the hydrogen levels into higher ranges. When that happens the microbe populations go to work doing their thing. Water management is very important for this reason.
As the soil drys out the pH rises by dropping the hydrogen levels into higher ranges. When that happens the microbe populations go to work doing their thing. Water management is very important for this reason.
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Only rainwater and Happy Frog potting mix. From the germination of the seed to now. Rainwater works super using Happy Frog, Ocean Forest and Roots Organic, or any good balanced organic soil mix. Just Rainwater and soil. However, it's slow compared to peat or coco with synthetic nutrients. Its simple and natural. Only 2 waterings since the up-potting. 350 ml rainwater. Heres 5 days later.
I gave them their 3rd watering with 400 ml of rainwater in each container. I added a little more light wattage and spread them out for faster growth. Heres 5 days later
Rainwater and potting soil only up til now.. Here are the plants at 30 days from planting the seed. They are starting to grow a little faster now and can move to flowering containers in a few days or a week. .
Now is the time to start adding about 30 ppm of cal-mag to the rainwater to get them ready for flowering. When these go into the final containers they will start getting fertilizer so it's important to start modifying the pH now.
Now is the time to start adding about 30 ppm of cal-mag to the rainwater to get them ready for flowering. When these go into the final containers they will start getting fertilizer so it's important to start modifying the pH now.
I haven’t updated this thread in a while. Outdoor rainwater no nute added grow is doing great. Bit of a slow start but they are taking off like crazy now. Also had a few days of tap when I was out of town and it was 90 out. Didn’t seem to hurt in the slightest so far. I also gave a watering with sea 90 recommended by farmer lion. Going to hit it again with that in a few waterings.
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Those look good. The problem with tap water is that it is accumulative. Using once or a few times seem harmless but when one uses enough to accumulate and raise the hydroxyl content in the soil it can come back and bite you on the ass in flowering. The tap water ppm can get trapped in the soil and block the flowering nutrients in the end. If the tap ppm is mostly calcium and accumulates, it can damage the leaves turning them crunchy and brown and causing them to bronze during flowering.
Just with the addition of a tiny tiny bit of cal-mag., a few drops per gallon. The total ppm of the rainwater is 70 ppm. This rainwater works well because of the naturally low starting pH. Here's a couple of days later photo.
I up-potted into the final flowering pots using two different soils. FoxFarmsHappyFrog and Pro-mix Hp will be the flowering soils. "Fox Farms and rain water only" and Pro mix Hp with General Hydroponics Flora Series and rainwater. It will be interesting and fun to see how each potting mix does.
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Three Berries
Active member
I'm doing that today into the final pots. The plant on the right is GDP in Ocean Forest, center is GDP in Happy Frog and left is a Bubba Kush auto in Pro Mx BX.. Two weeks ago I almost threw it out the Ocean Forest one as it was looking so poorly. I left the bad leaves on and you can see where it stopped. The center one has always done better, is 10 days behind the right one. The Bubba is ~6 weeks, the GDPs are 7 and 8 weeks.
But the OF one suffered nute burn right off the bat. They were started in 16oz peat so never again. I ended up getting the runoff to mid 6s with MgCO3 buffered water and then adding a teaspoon each of CAN, Langbeinite with 1/4 cup of a CaCl/MgCl mix. Took right off.....
But the up potting is sticking to the same soil they started in.
I'm thinking of using the Pro mix for starting and the first up pot into 5 quart pot. Then to Ocean Forest or Happy Frog for the final 3.5 pots for the future.
But the OF one suffered nute burn right off the bat. They were started in 16oz peat so never again. I ended up getting the runoff to mid 6s with MgCO3 buffered water and then adding a teaspoon each of CAN, Langbeinite with 1/4 cup of a CaCl/MgCl mix. Took right off.....
But the up potting is sticking to the same soil they started in.
I'm thinking of using the Pro mix for starting and the first up pot into 5 quart pot. Then to Ocean Forest or Happy Frog for the final 3.5 pots for the future.
Here's an update with the FoxFarms Happy Frog and rainwater only. I have left two plants in one-gallon pots to show how well FoxFarms feed even at 6 weeks. So photos of plants up-potted in their flowering pots.
My plan was to demonstrate how much better rainwater is than any other water when used correctly. However, there is one downside to using rainwater that can catch some growers off guard. Drought, and if one runs out of rain water, he or she has to switch to Reverse Osmous water. RO is not as good but it's better than tap. This week I will use up all my reserves of rain up because I haven't had any rain in over 80 days.
I have worked the photoperiod down to 12/12 from 30 minutes reduction each week. I just hit 12/12 for the first week. Here are the plants now on rainwater and very low ppm feed.
When switching to different water it's important to do it slowly and not all at once. I will mix the last bit of rain with RO water until the rain is gone. When changing water one has to watch the pH and ec very closely and keep it as close to the rainwater readings as possible. Here are today's photos
Heres 5 days later after the switch from Rainwater to R O water. I'm just now getting flowers so I need to be careful at this point with pH consistency. I mix just enough nutrients with the RO water to get a pH of 6.5 for the plants. Less than 280 ppm or .3 EC will make my RO water pH perfect. 5x3 grow area
ButterflyEffect
Well-known member
Damn CP! You're killing it my friend! I was just about to post about some issues I've been having(Shocker, I know), and I stumbled upon this gem of a thread.
Not sure if you recall, but I'm also a full time rainwater grower. I got a few concerns and a pretty unique situation. Could ya lend a brother some of that expertise?
Just to refresh..
The grow - 3 flower rooms and 1 veg room. Veg is mostly LED, flower is stacked 315 CDMs(Vertical). Plants start life in solos and move to 1G pots for the remainder. Medium is 6:1 perlite to vermiculite and the pots are setup hempy.
The reason I chose hempy is my water, or I should say, lack of. My well sucks(low pH, moderately hard, high Manganese and sodium). So I started a rainwater project right from the get go.
The water system - I have 3 275G tanks sistered together and a well pump in one that feeds a pretty typical residential type setup. It goes to a 33G pressure tank --> 2 stage sediment --> UV --> Carbon filter --> PEX runs to each res plus a few other outlets.
My problem is the old wavy tar roof causes me to miss a lot of water into the gutter and I'm under a bunch of trees which raises the ppm to around 30-40 in the spring/summer. I thought that adding bleach periodically to the tanks would help knock down whatever gets in my water in the spring(Its definitely something biological) and now my room misting units are leaving an almost salt like residue on the walls and floor.
So.......After all this I thought I would maybe run a line from the house to the grow(the well water) and blend that with the rainwater. Then I would run it through an RO setup. This way I solve both the lack of water and the quality issues in one shot. I know this isn't ideal, but I really, really need to move away from these damn hempys. All they do, IMO, is mess with the root zone. Remember, I only chose hempy cuz I don't have enough water......yet.
The only other option is for me to wait on the RO thing until I see what a new roof and gutter system will do for me. I'm redoing it with metal panels and a gutter on the second side so all in all I'll get a ton more water and it should be cleaner.......except for the damn trees above. Can't do anything there.
Sorry for the long-ass novel here. I just know you'll have some inspiring thoughts that'll help me put this all on a better path. I'm constantly plagued by issues mostly in veg. Depending on the strain, it'll be either something that looks like a Zinc issue or a stem purpling. I'm tired of wondering if my water is as good as it can be and I want to switch away from these hempys!
Thanks!!
Not sure if you recall, but I'm also a full time rainwater grower. I got a few concerns and a pretty unique situation. Could ya lend a brother some of that expertise?
Just to refresh..
The grow - 3 flower rooms and 1 veg room. Veg is mostly LED, flower is stacked 315 CDMs(Vertical). Plants start life in solos and move to 1G pots for the remainder. Medium is 6:1 perlite to vermiculite and the pots are setup hempy.
The reason I chose hempy is my water, or I should say, lack of. My well sucks(low pH, moderately hard, high Manganese and sodium). So I started a rainwater project right from the get go.
The water system - I have 3 275G tanks sistered together and a well pump in one that feeds a pretty typical residential type setup. It goes to a 33G pressure tank --> 2 stage sediment --> UV --> Carbon filter --> PEX runs to each res plus a few other outlets.
My problem is the old wavy tar roof causes me to miss a lot of water into the gutter and I'm under a bunch of trees which raises the ppm to around 30-40 in the spring/summer. I thought that adding bleach periodically to the tanks would help knock down whatever gets in my water in the spring(Its definitely something biological) and now my room misting units are leaving an almost salt like residue on the walls and floor.
So.......After all this I thought I would maybe run a line from the house to the grow(the well water) and blend that with the rainwater. Then I would run it through an RO setup. This way I solve both the lack of water and the quality issues in one shot. I know this isn't ideal, but I really, really need to move away from these damn hempys. All they do, IMO, is mess with the root zone. Remember, I only chose hempy cuz I don't have enough water......yet.
The only other option is for me to wait on the RO thing until I see what a new roof and gutter system will do for me. I'm redoing it with metal panels and a gutter on the second side so all in all I'll get a ton more water and it should be cleaner.......except for the damn trees above. Can't do anything there.
Sorry for the long-ass novel here. I just know you'll have some inspiring thoughts that'll help me put this all on a better path. I'm constantly plagued by issues mostly in veg. Depending on the strain, it'll be either something that looks like a Zinc issue or a stem purpling. I'm tired of wondering if my water is as good as it can be and I want to switch away from these hempys!
Thanks!!
