Quick electrical question for those with experience

[Wayzer]

im building this http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/grow-light-controller.asp

i went to the local hydro shop and got a relay but have no idea if its the right one cause the ladie didnt know shit. all i do know is whats on the side... if anybody can please take a look at this and get back to me, i would be very thankful

5A 480V/600V 50/60Hz
1-1/2HP EA. Pole 120V-600V, 50/60Hz
2HP SW. 2 POLE 120V-600V, 50/60Hz
15A Tung, 120V 50/60Hz
40A 28VDC/300V 50/60Hz

Coil: 240V 50/60Hz

magnecraft & struthers-Dunn

thanx

 

[Wayzer]

also... i bought 14/3 wire but couldnt find sjo(rather the incompetent home depot man). whats the difference? i noticed that my wire is ft-1, rather than ft-2 that the sjo wire in the link is... the wire i have is white on the outside and has 4 wires whithin color coded as white,red,black and bare(im guessing ground). i need to make this device and keep encountering problems... will somebody who has buit it help me about a bit?

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

you have a relay w/ a 220 vac coil
the other data was regarding the contact rating(s) which is the types of loads it can switch safely w/o damage.

what load(s) are you trying to switch???
BUZZ!

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

14 guage wire is only rated for 15 amps ampacity, your breaker can only deal with
about 12 amps contstant load.
what are you looking to run on this wire???
BUZZ!

 

[Wayzer]

check my link in the first post....

its a grow light controller....

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

i use the intermatic timer ihn my set up i used a 120 vac clock motor w/ the double pole contacts from a 220/240 vac timer set.

the relay u purchased , does it look like the one in the illustration???
or does it look like an "ice cube" w/ guts pins and a base???
the builders info has NO ratings besides " 30 amp power relay" go figure!!
BUZZ!

 

[Wayzer]

lo ya i know, thats why im so freakin confused! thanks for ur help....
the relay i have has exta poles or screws... ima bring it back tomorrow and try to go to home depot with a pic or something... i cant believe theres no more info about, u cant even google it cause car parts and so many other things come up...


if anybody knows what i shoud ask for at home depot (cause when i said 30amp power relay he asked which 1, what brand/ company...) i dont know anything about this shit, i feel like such a scrublet

 

[stonewall]

Check this out : http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=31671

I doubt home depot will have a relay for you. They have 240 volt timers for water heaters, but it depend on your load and your switching needs as to whether it is suitable for your situation or if you would be better off with the relay/timer DYI combo.

When Buzzsmirk! asked "what load(s) are you trying to switch???" He already knew they were lights, but we need to know what size and how many.

SJO is a referance to the insulation properties of the cord. It sounds to me like you just got romex or nm cable. The SJO cord has stranded conductors and the nm cable has solid conductors. I prefer the sjo cord for its flexibleness in most grow room situations, but for fixed permanent situations the nm cable is the usual choice.

 

[Wayzer]

well then i wanna run up to 4, 1000watt hps's (like the setup demonstrated)... all exactly the same.... stonewall ur a fucking darling for that info... very appreciated

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

well then i wanna run up to 4, 1000watt hps's (like the setup demonstrated)... all exactly the same.... stonewall ur a fucking darling for that info... very appreciated

tell us about your primary power source to get energy to this controller.

what size breaker(s) , voltage, amperage, # of poles.
what size wire(s) from the breaker(s) to your controller???
how long is this run?? 100ft or less?? .

4 1000 watt ballasts are whats known as a heavy "inductive load"
inductive loads are really gnarly on contacts so choose your "relay" correctly!

once you spell out the details i asked we will hook u up if u still need help!
BUZZ!

 

[Wayzer]

awesome... sorry i suck BUZZ!

i have a 220v 25a breaker thats dedicated to the dryer that i want to use... poles?... wire size...? uhhh... less than 50 feet even... wow man inductive and gnarly in the same sentence...props!

thanks for caring buzzz means alot
i love you

 

[stonewall]

You'll find the sjo cord at home depot on the carousel of spools. or you can just buy an extension cord of adequate gauge and cut it up.

From your listed specs on the relay you have already purchased, the only thing wrong with it is the 240 coil. Return it and see if the old lady has the same thing with a 120 volt coil. you need to ask for a relay/contactor rated for 40 amps( a bit overkill if you go with 240 volt lights but this covers all bases) and having double pole single throw contacts with a 120 volt coil.

edit: Ah yes inductive load, good point buzz. The hp rating is the inductive load rating on the relay.

your gonna need 10 gauge wire. 4000 watts coming on all at once is a bit too much in my opinion, better to split it into 2 different 2000 watt circuits.

 

[Buzzsmirk!]

"UHH" on your wire size has been the cause of many a house fire!!!!

the national electrical code (electrician's bible) is one big fucken heat management
plan. heat trips breakers ( NOT AMPS!) , heat melts insulation, heat if intense enough in the right enviroment burns your home down. If u biuld your electrical system according to "THE CODE" your place shouldn't burn down!!! its a science!!!

it sounds like you have "TWO POLE" 25 amp breaker. this may not be quite adequate for your needs when speaking of "constant load"/ nusiance tripping of your breaker.
(we get into that a bit later!)
u probaby have 10 guage wire in ur existing circuit, if so you can go to a 30 amp breaker w/o breakin the rules.
tell me about the ballasts u want to switch, are they 120 VAC or 220 VAC???
BUZZ!

 

[Wayzer]

wow u guys are killing my brain!!! but i love it

ummmmmm stonewall : i was gonna go run 3 off of it with the 4th as an option... is it too much??? how do i make 2, 2000watt circuits??

buzz! my man: the ballasts i am goin to wire for 220... as for all that other mumbo jumbo... what u dont know can and will burn you i suppose... but thats why we have guys like u and stone. <3<3

 

[Wayzer]

what gauge wire do i need to use to wire my ballasts while we're on that... is it the same wire for the socket? based on this diagram if my ballast is able to run off both 110&220

 

[Guest]

wayzer for 4 1K fixtures you definately want 10 wire on a 25 or 30A breaker.I tried to run 3 1K fixtutres on a 12 wire 20A and it worked for awhile,then it started tripping during startup.I repulled 10 wire and put it on a 25A breaker and everything is cool.12 wire is just not going to be big enough for sure,you must pull #10AWG for 4 1Ks

 

[Wayzer]

thanks skeletor.
do i use the same 10 wire to wire my 220 ballast?




to the lamp? and to power?

 

[imnotcrazy]

#10 AWG is a lil much for the internal currents of the ballasts. 1000 watters should use #12 good for 20A draw. #14 (good for 15A) will work also, but if you wanted to only buy one size wire go with the #10, larger wire will not hurt anything on the incoming power side. As for the connection to the lamp, not too sure as most wire available in HD and Lowe's is rated at a max of 600V, and the idea of the transformer is to convert the 120/220V @10A to a higher voltage lower current because of the arc tube involved in the lamp. It takes much higher voltages to "jump" from the anode to the cathode in the arc tube (my mogul socket is labeled "Pulse Voltage 5000V"). The jump of the arc through a gas filled tube caused the gas to excite and glow giving you light. Using a cable rated for only 600V (the voltage rating of the cable/wire is the insulation rating) may cause an unsafe condition. You might be better off to buy a pre wired socket, but I am not totally sure as Pulse Voltage may only refer to the Igniter pulse to start the lamp. Maybe someone else has more insight.

 

[stonewall]

you need 10 gauge going into the multi controller from the junction box( dryer outlet), I like the sj cord in this situation ( rated for 30 amps and 300 volts max)

you need 14 gauge from the controler to each individual ballast, again I like sj cord for this situation ( rated for 18 amps and 300 volts max)

You need 16 gauge SO cord from the ballast to the lamp.(rated for 13 amps max and 600 volts max) This is the industry standard for remote mount ballast.

do not confuse SJO cord with SO cord. anything SJ is only rated for 300 volts even if it has an O after it.

When considering which wire type to use for the cord from the ballast to the lamp you have to use open circuit voltage for determining the voltage handleing capabilities, actually insulation capabilities. the ignitor voltage is so transient that it is not really a consideration except at exposed points, this is because of the ability of high voltage to arc or jump through the air. thats why the socket is rated for 5 kv, so when you turn on the ballast with out the bulb in the circuit there isn't a light show inside the empty socket.

 

[Wayzer]

you need 10 gauge going into the multi controller from the junction box( dryer outlet), I like the sj cord in this situation ( rated for 30 amps and 300 volts max)

you need 14 gauge from the controler to each individual ballast, again I like sj cord for this situation ( rated for 18 amps and 300 volts max)

You need 16 gauge SO cord from the ballast to the lamp.(rated for 13 amps max and 600 volts max) This is the industry standard for remote mount ballast.

do not confuse SJO cord with SO cord. anything SJ is only rated for 300 volts even if it has an O after it.

When considering which wire type to use for the cord from the ballast to the lamp you have to use open circuit voltage for determining the voltage handleing capabilities, actually insulation capabilities. the ignitor voltage is so transient that it is not really a consideration except at exposed points, this is because of the ability of high voltage to arc or jump through the air. thats why the socket is rated for 5 kv, so when you turn on the ballast with out the bulb in the circuit there isn't a light show inside the empty socket.

i know ur gonna hate me... but as simple as u made it sound, i dont want to die, so i wanna be 100%

10 gauge wire to connect each 220v outlet to the relay in the junction box...?

14 gauge for connecting the ballasts to the 220v plug that plugs into the light controller...?

16 gauge wire to connect from the ballast to the lamp socket...???


i dont understand why there needs to be so many... bahh...maybe im crazy