In 1969, I was a 25 yo veteran living in the Midwest, going to college on the GI Bill. Although ex-military and somewhat of a straight arrow(Marvin Middleclass was the name for that), I got involved with Hippies at the restaurant I managed. Of 41 employees that I had, 40 smoked pot. The vast majority of what we got was Cambodian, and Mexican from Michoacan and,if we were lucky, Ac. Gold. We didn't know squat about indica or sativa. Many of my employees were ex-military, as I had a policy of hiring as many returning vets from Viet Nam as I could. Many of them had smoked pot in Viet Nam and the stuff that we were getting was very similar to what they were used to. We paid $10 for a lid, which was a full one ounce. A pound was $100. The shit was picked early and contained lots of stems and immature seeds. After cleaning up a pound of Cambodian, you could sell 14 lids for $10 each, keep an ounce and a quarter for yourself and still make $40, close to half a weeks wage back then. Nobody was growing back then. We didn't even consider it and didn't know how. Besides, why grow when you could buy it for $10 a lid? By 1971, there was some Panama Red and some S. American stuff available, but I stopped smoking as I had a wife, 2 kids, a full time job and went to college full-time. Somewhat ironic that it took me 35 years to start up again and that it was my kids who taught me how to grow.
-
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D
Dalaihempy
Hiya sam all i can say is wat i saw and i saw imported cannabis from other parts i saw not only asian sativas growing here mate thats the truth.
I found some info i will paste here some basic stats and info on the erly aussir canna trade wich aparently was not only geard for domestic sale but for the worlds largest market the USA market that infact consumed 1/2 of the worlds cannabis market if i have my stats right here going by the info i found.
HISTORY BY NUMBERS: Problem Two
Estimating the Cost of Drug Law Enforcement
In the first 25 years of the War on Drugs in Australia, from December 1975 to
December 2000, close to one-and-a-half million drug offences were prosecuted.
The Era of the $30 Ounce
Michael Dransfield’s ‘bluejean days, when acid was still legal’ when the price of pot
was $14 an ounce, was probably 1966, the year of Martin Sharp’s The Addict. The
Report of the Government of Australia in the calendar year 1969 on the traffic in
opium and other dangerous drugs (published by Australian Customs) gives the
prices for cannabis in 1969 as:16
Marihuana
Sydney $20-$23 per oz (ex pedlar in bulk)
Melbourne $30 per oz (ex pedlar in bulk)
$50-$60 per oz (imported marihuana)
Brisbane $40 per oz
Hashish
Sydney $30 per oz
Melbourne $60 per oz
Brisbane $100 per oz
The 1970 figures from the same source are: 17
Marijuana good quality $450-$600 per lb.
poor quality $300-$350 per lb.
peddlers street prices $15 -$35 per oz
Hashish $40-$60 per oz
Because of the falling regime of prohibition in the early seventies, the $30 ounce
became an institution that lasted a good seven years. In May 1977, The Australasian
Weed gave prices that reflected this stable price regime, though with a greater
variety of choice. The Weed’s market report was intended to be a regular feature of
this frequently banned publication. There was no sign of the drought to come in The
Weed’s market report for May 1977:
Domestic grass fair to good oz $25-30.
lb $160-300
Nepalese hash Temple balls oz $80 -120.
lb $900-1200
Indian hash garbage oz $70-80.
lb. $875 -975
Afghani hash excellent oz $100 -125.
lb. $1100 -1500 18
SYDNEY
GRASS Imported: Wholesale price has been falling recently. 200 lbs
of compressed Indian grass now available on Sydney market-kif quality. Approx.
$30 per ounce retail.
Intresting read
An examination of Murray Riley, Bela Csidei and their associates revealed that
they belonged to a closely related U.S./Australian drug network which, although it
was based in Sydney, was a global player and supplied the U.S. market as well as
Australia. The Australian principals of this network included Murray Riley, Frank
Nugan and Bela Csidei; the American principals were Jimmy Fratianno, Michael
Hand and Bernie Houghton. Because of their role as suppliers and transshipment
agents for the U.S. market, I refer to this group as ‘The Sydney Connection’. One
member of this network was Frank Nugan who was born in Griffith.
This version of the Sydney Connection (there have been others) came into
existence around about the time of the fall of Vietnam, and with the aid of a key
member of the CIA’s Eastern Division, Michael Hand. I suggest that the Sydney
Connection was caused by the CIA’s trans-Pacific drug trade moving south to
Sydney after the fall of Vietnam. It was this group which owned Coleambally and
consequently were responsible for the murder of Donald Mackay. They were the Mr
Bigs of the drug trade, they were allied with the Black Knights of the NSW police
force and knew they were ‘protected’.
I found some info i will paste here some basic stats and info on the erly aussir canna trade wich aparently was not only geard for domestic sale but for the worlds largest market the USA market that infact consumed 1/2 of the worlds cannabis market if i have my stats right here going by the info i found.
HISTORY BY NUMBERS: Problem Two
Estimating the Cost of Drug Law Enforcement
In the first 25 years of the War on Drugs in Australia, from December 1975 to
December 2000, close to one-and-a-half million drug offences were prosecuted.
The Era of the $30 Ounce
Michael Dransfield’s ‘bluejean days, when acid was still legal’ when the price of pot
was $14 an ounce, was probably 1966, the year of Martin Sharp’s The Addict. The
Report of the Government of Australia in the calendar year 1969 on the traffic in
opium and other dangerous drugs (published by Australian Customs) gives the
prices for cannabis in 1969 as:16
Marihuana
Sydney $20-$23 per oz (ex pedlar in bulk)
Melbourne $30 per oz (ex pedlar in bulk)
$50-$60 per oz (imported marihuana)
Brisbane $40 per oz
Hashish
Sydney $30 per oz
Melbourne $60 per oz
Brisbane $100 per oz
The 1970 figures from the same source are: 17
Marijuana good quality $450-$600 per lb.
poor quality $300-$350 per lb.
peddlers street prices $15 -$35 per oz
Hashish $40-$60 per oz
Because of the falling regime of prohibition in the early seventies, the $30 ounce
became an institution that lasted a good seven years. In May 1977, The Australasian
Weed gave prices that reflected this stable price regime, though with a greater
variety of choice. The Weed’s market report was intended to be a regular feature of
this frequently banned publication. There was no sign of the drought to come in The
Weed’s market report for May 1977:
Domestic grass fair to good oz $25-30.
lb $160-300
Nepalese hash Temple balls oz $80 -120.
lb $900-1200
Indian hash garbage oz $70-80.
lb. $875 -975
Afghani hash excellent oz $100 -125.
lb. $1100 -1500 18
SYDNEY
GRASS Imported: Wholesale price has been falling recently. 200 lbs
of compressed Indian grass now available on Sydney market-kif quality. Approx.
$30 per ounce retail.
Intresting read
An examination of Murray Riley, Bela Csidei and their associates revealed that
they belonged to a closely related U.S./Australian drug network which, although it
was based in Sydney, was a global player and supplied the U.S. market as well as
Australia. The Australian principals of this network included Murray Riley, Frank
Nugan and Bela Csidei; the American principals were Jimmy Fratianno, Michael
Hand and Bernie Houghton. Because of their role as suppliers and transshipment
agents for the U.S. market, I refer to this group as ‘The Sydney Connection’. One
member of this network was Frank Nugan who was born in Griffith.
This version of the Sydney Connection (there have been others) came into
existence around about the time of the fall of Vietnam, and with the aid of a key
member of the CIA’s Eastern Division, Michael Hand. I suggest that the Sydney
Connection was caused by the CIA’s trans-Pacific drug trade moving south to
Sydney after the fall of Vietnam. It was this group which owned Coleambally and
consequently were responsible for the murder of Donald Mackay. They were the Mr
Bigs of the drug trade, they were allied with the Black Knights of the NSW police
force and knew they were ‘protected’.
G
Guest
There is a farm a couple of miles from my house called Hemplands, for 300 years it was a Hemp farm. They grew their last hemp crop in the 20s, during the First World War they planted every possible patch of soil with hemp and their farm workers were all given exemption from military service due to hemp being a critical war resource.
Now, I've talked to 4 generations of that farming family and they are adamant that no-one smoked the flowers, they tell me that they were resinous as hell and they used to wear handkerchiefs across their faces when harvesting and retting the hemp to avoid the 'fierce smell' they thought the smell could make you light headed and 'giddy'. The great grandfather told me 'it were a reet bugger getting that mess of yer hands' after describing how brown and sticky his hands used to get handling the flower tops to get the seeds for next year's crop, they used to feed the flowers to the cows after removing enough seed for next year. I winced as he explained he used to use a scrubbing brush to get the resin off his hands, I explained that was hashish and he cackled, he had no idea that was how hashish came about.
I've also spend many hours talking to an old lady who was born in India at the height of the British Raj. She lived in NWFP as her father was a civil servant and she travelled extensively in NWFP with her father. She had not one tale about ganja or hashish, but hundreds about other things, she explained how ganja was seen as a 'Hindoo' vice and it was in no way acceptable for a British person to smoke such things, she also mentioned that the British Army officers were often moaning about the Indian troops being lazy because they surreptitously imbied ganja to relieve the bordeom of barracks life.
The point is, yes there were some westerners who smoked cannabis, but until the 50s and 60s, 99% of westerners didn't. Yes, 'Indian Hemp' was well known and in everyday use in a number of ways, but smoking it recreationally wasn't one of them. California had no effect really on the UK and Europe until the 80s, and then only through the genes Sam brought to Holland. Sure, the influences came through music, but the rise of the popularity of cannabis as a recreational intoxicant in the UK really came about in the 50s, it began in the Jazz scene amon white folks and with the West Indian immigrants, by the mid 60s, it had really caught on, but it didn't become widespread until the 70s, and much of what was smoked in the 70s was hashish from Pakistan and Afghanistan, the immigrants from Pakistan soon realised there was a big market n the UK for hashish and much of the hashish that reached the UK in the early 70s came through family connections back home in Pakistan. Moroccan hashish started to be smuggled to the UK in large quantities in the mid to late 70s, white British criminals had already established themselves in southern Spain, many of them bank robbers and blaggers who had made their money and wanted to retire to the sun rather than a cosy cell in Wormwood Scrubs. it was these guys who began shipping Moroccan hash first to Spain and then on to the UK.
So in the case of the UK, it was the immigrants who had the main influence - the West Indians brought their ganja smoking culture, the Pakistanis and Indians had the family connections and the white British criminals turned to importing drugs rather than armed robbery. Growing your own and modern genetics and techniques spread here from Holland in the 80s. So yes California dd have a big influence on the UK, but only via Holland a couple of decades later.
Now, I've talked to 4 generations of that farming family and they are adamant that no-one smoked the flowers, they tell me that they were resinous as hell and they used to wear handkerchiefs across their faces when harvesting and retting the hemp to avoid the 'fierce smell' they thought the smell could make you light headed and 'giddy'. The great grandfather told me 'it were a reet bugger getting that mess of yer hands' after describing how brown and sticky his hands used to get handling the flower tops to get the seeds for next year's crop, they used to feed the flowers to the cows after removing enough seed for next year. I winced as he explained he used to use a scrubbing brush to get the resin off his hands, I explained that was hashish and he cackled, he had no idea that was how hashish came about.
I've also spend many hours talking to an old lady who was born in India at the height of the British Raj. She lived in NWFP as her father was a civil servant and she travelled extensively in NWFP with her father. She had not one tale about ganja or hashish, but hundreds about other things, she explained how ganja was seen as a 'Hindoo' vice and it was in no way acceptable for a British person to smoke such things, she also mentioned that the British Army officers were often moaning about the Indian troops being lazy because they surreptitously imbied ganja to relieve the bordeom of barracks life.
The point is, yes there were some westerners who smoked cannabis, but until the 50s and 60s, 99% of westerners didn't. Yes, 'Indian Hemp' was well known and in everyday use in a number of ways, but smoking it recreationally wasn't one of them. California had no effect really on the UK and Europe until the 80s, and then only through the genes Sam brought to Holland. Sure, the influences came through music, but the rise of the popularity of cannabis as a recreational intoxicant in the UK really came about in the 50s, it began in the Jazz scene amon white folks and with the West Indian immigrants, by the mid 60s, it had really caught on, but it didn't become widespread until the 70s, and much of what was smoked in the 70s was hashish from Pakistan and Afghanistan, the immigrants from Pakistan soon realised there was a big market n the UK for hashish and much of the hashish that reached the UK in the early 70s came through family connections back home in Pakistan. Moroccan hashish started to be smuggled to the UK in large quantities in the mid to late 70s, white British criminals had already established themselves in southern Spain, many of them bank robbers and blaggers who had made their money and wanted to retire to the sun rather than a cosy cell in Wormwood Scrubs. it was these guys who began shipping Moroccan hash first to Spain and then on to the UK.
So in the case of the UK, it was the immigrants who had the main influence - the West Indians brought their ganja smoking culture, the Pakistanis and Indians had the family connections and the white British criminals turned to importing drugs rather than armed robbery. Growing your own and modern genetics and techniques spread here from Holland in the 80s. So yes California dd have a big influence on the UK, but only via Holland a couple of decades later.
B
Bluebeard
No sorry ngakpa, you have me mistaken for someone else. Still, that quote from Sam about Yunnan, didn't say anything about it being the original home of the species. It just said the indica variety was bred, or perhaps when you mean species, you are referring to just Indicas? Or maybe Sam was implying that it is home to the entire cannabis species?
I think one thing that you and British Hempire might be missing. I'm not British and perhaps you know better than I that farming, processing, brokering and importing Hashish and Ganja from India and the surrounding area is a fairly old British occupation. As the foreign occupant of India and Pakistan, the British were the source of most of the cannabis products used in medicines in western countries, and there's still people to this day up in those mountains who have been living there for generations continuing the work of their ancestors, just now doing as much exporting to the west. This is what I felt RCC was talking about when he mentioned the first shipment of Chitral hash to the west rubbed charas smuggled in the shoes of a westerner. Whatever it was, he described this shipment in great deal, and came across as having some first hand experience with at least the product.
I think one thing that you and British Hempire might be missing. I'm not British and perhaps you know better than I that farming, processing, brokering and importing Hashish and Ganja from India and the surrounding area is a fairly old British occupation. As the foreign occupant of India and Pakistan, the British were the source of most of the cannabis products used in medicines in western countries, and there's still people to this day up in those mountains who have been living there for generations continuing the work of their ancestors, just now doing as much exporting to the west. This is what I felt RCC was talking about when he mentioned the first shipment of Chitral hash to the west rubbed charas smuggled in the shoes of a westerner. Whatever it was, he described this shipment in great deal, and came across as having some first hand experience with at least the product.
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G
Guest
Yes, the Brits ran the global trade in Indian Hemp and much of the hashish trade too, but the Brits weren't smoking it recreationally, it went to pharmaceutical compnaies and chemists shops as medicines or was sold to the Indian labour in certain parts of the empire. The British Empire was built on trade and the Brits saw the Hashish trade as just a trade like any other, it wasn't until the early 20th century that people began to view Hashish and ganja as any kind of threat to their society, there were those do-gooders before that who thought that the Indians shouldn't smoke cannabis as it made them lazy but a lot of that was tied into the racism of the period. It wasn't socially acceptable among white europeans to adopt aspects of eastern cultures until well after WW2 so although the Brits were living in the midst of a cannabis culture, they didn't partake, the Brits lived in walled compounds with servants and socialised at each other's residences or in British only clubs (they did let the Indian elite into their society) the British didn't assimilate much of India's cannabis culture which is a shame as we took so many other key aspects of what is the modern British character from Indian culture - the drinking of tea and hygiene being too notable examples. The British preferred gin (often to make the quinine palatable) and scotch whisky as intoxicants and it really was the post WW2 generation who first 'discovered' the pleasures of smoking cannbis, before that it was only a few on the fringes of western society.
I wonder just how many tons of high grade Indian and Afghani hash was imported into the Uk prior to the ban in 1927? I remember reading that when the British first conquered the North West Frontier Province they discovered the local hashish trade was so vast in scale and the traffic of pack animals carrying charas and garda from the valleys down to the towns was so great that it would require an army to stop it. So in typical British fashion, they setup custioms posts, inspected each shipment of hashish, weighed it and charged suitable levies. For more than a century, the Brits taxed the flow of Hashish across the NWFP border. I was born in the same port as George Washington's mother in NW England and it used to be the biggest port after London and Bristol in volume of trade, it was one of the main points of entry for the sugar and rum from the West Indies and there are quays called 'sugar quay' and 'rum quay'. It was also one of the main points of entry of tea and hemp from India and there is a 'tea quay' and a 'hemp quay' which served the same purposes as India Dock in London. I've seen pictures of the quays piled 50 feet high in boxes and bales with dozens of clipper ships moored. I've often wonder just how many bales of hashish and herbal cannabis had passed through that dock, I'd say hundreds of thousands of tons over about two centuries, . Howards Marks certainly wasn't the first Briton to import large shipments of dope into Britain, that's for sure, up until 1927 it was a licensed, regulated, taxed trade with the dope stored in bonded warehouses and sold legally to pharmaceutical companies and individuals chemists shops. Before the ban you could have walked into your local chemist's shop and bought a nicely packaged ounce block of 'Indian Hemp, solid extract' and it would most likely be high grade garda or gharas that began it;s journey to you on the back of a donkey in the mountains, passed through a Britiosh customs post at least once, been sold to a local broker who transported it to a city, probably Calcutta and sold it to a government-run warehouse or licensed trader who exported it to Britain where it was purchased by a pharmaceutical company who packaged it for sale in individual pieces. I imagine the quality was superb as the entire trade was legal and the British would have been in a position to purchase nothing but the finest from the brokers and traders.
Thing is, I doubt many people bought those little block of hashish or little bottles of cannabis oil or even small tins of herbal cannabis with the intent of smoking it or getting high in any way, it was just part of the pharmacopaeia of the times and we have to remember that to out great grandparents it wasn't anything dangerous or sinister and if you lit up a pipe of cannabis back then you would have justy been looked at as being rather eccentric and possibly having 'gone a bit native' until you explained you were merely enjoying a quaint native practice you picked up in India. The whole stigmatisation of cannabis as a drug and a bad thing is a modern invention of the 20th century. If it wasn't for the corruption and greed that brought about the ban on cannabis California wouldn't have been much more than a drop in the ocean, it is only significant that some cats in Cali began growing fields of cannabis in the 60s because in the 3-4 decades before that, all the huge plantations in places like India had gone. In a world where places like Kerala are cultivating thousands of acres of sativas to produce herbal cannabis and hashish is being produced legally everywhere from Greece to China, a few fields of dope in the Cali hills would not mean much.
It was the ignorance of the true nature of cannabis that allowed the ban to happen in the first place, the general public had little if no idea that this new evil drug 'marihuana' was good old hemp. Nowadays folks say cannabis is stronger, that modern techniques and genetics have produced far superior product such as bubble hash and BHO. Well, I say that up until 1927 I could have bought hashish and oil every bit as high quality from my local corner shop. Cannabis is as old as mankind, the stigmatisation of it as a bad thing is less than a century old. Without that ban, California wouldn't have needed to invent a thing, it was all there for us and all that guys like Sam would have needed to do was preserve the genetic diversity and develop new hybrid cultivars.
This is a house (in Mississippi I think) before WWI, there are several large sativas growing, I can't remember which us government archive I found it in, but it was labelled as an illustration of cannabis grown for smoking rather than of a hemp plant, I would suppose these are Mexican types although given the global reach of the Indian hemp trade, they could be Indian.
I wonder just how many tons of high grade Indian and Afghani hash was imported into the Uk prior to the ban in 1927? I remember reading that when the British first conquered the North West Frontier Province they discovered the local hashish trade was so vast in scale and the traffic of pack animals carrying charas and garda from the valleys down to the towns was so great that it would require an army to stop it. So in typical British fashion, they setup custioms posts, inspected each shipment of hashish, weighed it and charged suitable levies. For more than a century, the Brits taxed the flow of Hashish across the NWFP border. I was born in the same port as George Washington's mother in NW England and it used to be the biggest port after London and Bristol in volume of trade, it was one of the main points of entry for the sugar and rum from the West Indies and there are quays called 'sugar quay' and 'rum quay'. It was also one of the main points of entry of tea and hemp from India and there is a 'tea quay' and a 'hemp quay' which served the same purposes as India Dock in London. I've seen pictures of the quays piled 50 feet high in boxes and bales with dozens of clipper ships moored. I've often wonder just how many bales of hashish and herbal cannabis had passed through that dock, I'd say hundreds of thousands of tons over about two centuries, . Howards Marks certainly wasn't the first Briton to import large shipments of dope into Britain, that's for sure, up until 1927 it was a licensed, regulated, taxed trade with the dope stored in bonded warehouses and sold legally to pharmaceutical companies and individuals chemists shops. Before the ban you could have walked into your local chemist's shop and bought a nicely packaged ounce block of 'Indian Hemp, solid extract' and it would most likely be high grade garda or gharas that began it;s journey to you on the back of a donkey in the mountains, passed through a Britiosh customs post at least once, been sold to a local broker who transported it to a city, probably Calcutta and sold it to a government-run warehouse or licensed trader who exported it to Britain where it was purchased by a pharmaceutical company who packaged it for sale in individual pieces. I imagine the quality was superb as the entire trade was legal and the British would have been in a position to purchase nothing but the finest from the brokers and traders.
Thing is, I doubt many people bought those little block of hashish or little bottles of cannabis oil or even small tins of herbal cannabis with the intent of smoking it or getting high in any way, it was just part of the pharmacopaeia of the times and we have to remember that to out great grandparents it wasn't anything dangerous or sinister and if you lit up a pipe of cannabis back then you would have justy been looked at as being rather eccentric and possibly having 'gone a bit native' until you explained you were merely enjoying a quaint native practice you picked up in India. The whole stigmatisation of cannabis as a drug and a bad thing is a modern invention of the 20th century. If it wasn't for the corruption and greed that brought about the ban on cannabis California wouldn't have been much more than a drop in the ocean, it is only significant that some cats in Cali began growing fields of cannabis in the 60s because in the 3-4 decades before that, all the huge plantations in places like India had gone. In a world where places like Kerala are cultivating thousands of acres of sativas to produce herbal cannabis and hashish is being produced legally everywhere from Greece to China, a few fields of dope in the Cali hills would not mean much.
It was the ignorance of the true nature of cannabis that allowed the ban to happen in the first place, the general public had little if no idea that this new evil drug 'marihuana' was good old hemp. Nowadays folks say cannabis is stronger, that modern techniques and genetics have produced far superior product such as bubble hash and BHO. Well, I say that up until 1927 I could have bought hashish and oil every bit as high quality from my local corner shop. Cannabis is as old as mankind, the stigmatisation of it as a bad thing is less than a century old. Without that ban, California wouldn't have needed to invent a thing, it was all there for us and all that guys like Sam would have needed to do was preserve the genetic diversity and develop new hybrid cultivars.
This is a house (in Mississippi I think) before WWI, there are several large sativas growing, I can't remember which us government archive I found it in, but it was labelled as an illustration of cannabis grown for smoking rather than of a hemp plant, I would suppose these are Mexican types although given the global reach of the Indian hemp trade, they could be Indian.
G
Guest
This article from 1931 is quite interesting:
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/h/hemind22.html
This last part is very telling:
So they had access to Cannabis in the form of Tincture, Solid Extract, Fluid Extract, Hashish and plain Herbal flowers. They were well aware of the nature and effects of cannabis, and fully aware of the eastern culture of smoking cannabis, but this was an age when people were less informed about the world and recreational substances are only really enjoyed by those with plenty of time for recreation, which hardly anyone did in the 20s and 30s. It was probably the fact that it wasn't until the 50s and 60s that western people began to live lifestyles that allowed plenty of recreational time that cannabis became popular as a recreational substance. California was one of the epicentres of that new culture and just happened to have a great climate for growinf dope. Because those Cali cats adopted an Eastern cultural practice of growing and smoking dope and Cali was one of the centres of a cultural explosion at that time, so it's the place where cannabis entered the mainstream of western culture, genetically, it's significant because a lot of the building blocks of modern cannabis stem from there but I think that is largely due to the fact that the world rapidly became a more dangerous place in the 70s and it's not a very good idea to goto somewhere like Afghanistan when it;s full of Russian troops!
Sam, do you think you would have had a career in cannabis if you hadn't grown up in California?
http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/h/hemind22.html
This last part is very telling:
So they had access to Cannabis in the form of Tincture, Solid Extract, Fluid Extract, Hashish and plain Herbal flowers. They were well aware of the nature and effects of cannabis, and fully aware of the eastern culture of smoking cannabis, but this was an age when people were less informed about the world and recreational substances are only really enjoyed by those with plenty of time for recreation, which hardly anyone did in the 20s and 30s. It was probably the fact that it wasn't until the 50s and 60s that western people began to live lifestyles that allowed plenty of recreational time that cannabis became popular as a recreational substance. California was one of the epicentres of that new culture and just happened to have a great climate for growinf dope. Because those Cali cats adopted an Eastern cultural practice of growing and smoking dope and Cali was one of the centres of a cultural explosion at that time, so it's the place where cannabis entered the mainstream of western culture, genetically, it's significant because a lot of the building blocks of modern cannabis stem from there but I think that is largely due to the fact that the world rapidly became a more dangerous place in the 70s and it's not a very good idea to goto somewhere like Afghanistan when it;s full of Russian troops!
Sam, do you think you would have had a career in cannabis if you hadn't grown up in California?
G
Guest
bh i think u need a new handle that say "the knowledge" ,,keep it up mucker 
G
Guest
Hehe, I'm on the dole at the moment so I've been reading a load of book, there is a huge secondhand bookshop near me and I've spent a lot of time looking through old books for anything about ganja. I can highly recommend these books to anyone interested in the history of our beloved herb:
PASHA,THOMAS RUSSELL Egyptian Service 1902-1946, published London, John Murray June 1949.
Thomas Wentworth Ruseel, better known as Russell Pasha was head of the Cairo Police for nearly 40 years and he describes in great detail the production, consumption and smuggling of hashish in the middle east, it's also a rip-roaring read too as he chases arabs through the desert through on horseback, hunts serial killers and heroin dealers and all kinds of other things.
Hashish: A Smuggler's Tale - Henry De Montfried.
The sotry of one incredible French adventurer and the years he spent smuggling hashish from Greece (where it was prduced legally by the mountain farmers) to Cairo, dodging pirates, Arab bandits, gun runners and getting into all kinds of scrapes. It gives you a full account of how hashish was produced and traded in the Mediterranean and Red Sea in the 20s.
Musk Hashish and Blood by Hector France, published 1900
Hector France was an Victorian adventurer in Algeria and this book is all abou those adventures, lots of shocking violence and barbaric Arabs killing each other other petty insults, lots of sex in tents in the desert and lot of vivid descriptions of the enjoyment of hashish and mahjoud.
I've got a few more to read yet, but those three are all belters.
PASHA,THOMAS RUSSELL Egyptian Service 1902-1946, published London, John Murray June 1949.
Thomas Wentworth Ruseel, better known as Russell Pasha was head of the Cairo Police for nearly 40 years and he describes in great detail the production, consumption and smuggling of hashish in the middle east, it's also a rip-roaring read too as he chases arabs through the desert through on horseback, hunts serial killers and heroin dealers and all kinds of other things.
Hashish: A Smuggler's Tale - Henry De Montfried.
The sotry of one incredible French adventurer and the years he spent smuggling hashish from Greece (where it was prduced legally by the mountain farmers) to Cairo, dodging pirates, Arab bandits, gun runners and getting into all kinds of scrapes. It gives you a full account of how hashish was produced and traded in the Mediterranean and Red Sea in the 20s.
Musk Hashish and Blood by Hector France, published 1900
Hector France was an Victorian adventurer in Algeria and this book is all abou those adventures, lots of shocking violence and barbaric Arabs killing each other other petty insults, lots of sex in tents in the desert and lot of vivid descriptions of the enjoyment of hashish and mahjoud.
I've got a few more to read yet, but those three are all belters.
Hi B.H. great post once again,Fascinating to think we had all that wonderful cannabis in our country and we weren't remotely aware or interested in smoking(although I did have some Info about an Opium Den in London that served Cannabis as a lozenge or similar for the purpose of recreation in victorian times!Some sort of Gents club nr Soho,Masons deal I recall.Anyway will post if I can find again).
The way I see it if Sam hadn't brought those genetics to Europe in the 80's we wouldn't really know much about Weed in Cali,other than High Times,Cheech & Chong and the F.F.Freak Bros and I'm sure we would all have carried on with our Caribbean/Indian/Morocan Influenced weed culture.
The Real Influence for the U.K from Cali was more the Indoor/Cloning/HID light brought to us via Holland by Sam and his ilk(bcos of our bad weather) not the Cali Genetics.We were quite used to being very stoned here by the early seventies on some bloody good hash and weed and as far as Hashish goes we have been blessed with more quality imported hash from various countries than anywhere other than holland,most Americans I met b4 10 years ago had never smoked Red seal,Maroc ,Red Leb ,Turkish,Gold seal,Camel,Charas,Kashmiri or Nepalese in any large amount(which is just as bad as never smoking Ac.Gold or the other great weed u guys had all over Cali) and I had smoked them all by the time I left my teens!
There was literally tons of it in UK all the time when I started smoking in the 80's This is just my experience of it but I never smoked weed as strong as the Afghan hash we were blessed with for 2 decades last century.I wish I had those Plants to make my sift as its the smell of my Late childhood,even as a kid b4 I smoked the smell of blackhash and Jamaican Sensi was everywhere in S.London.
On a different note half my Family are from Romani Gypsy heritage and they may have a thing or 2 to say about Global distribution of Canna genetics since Ancient Egyptian times. Probably a little b4 California existed as we know it....So thanks Cali but us Gypsies are still waiting for everyones thanks for spreading Canna to where u alll benefitted from it,so excuse me if I don't bow...Maybe we are just a little less Obsessed with our own importance than U R! Modesty is a virtue! JBo x
The way I see it if Sam hadn't brought those genetics to Europe in the 80's we wouldn't really know much about Weed in Cali,other than High Times,Cheech & Chong and the F.F.Freak Bros and I'm sure we would all have carried on with our Caribbean/Indian/Morocan Influenced weed culture.
The Real Influence for the U.K from Cali was more the Indoor/Cloning/HID light brought to us via Holland by Sam and his ilk(bcos of our bad weather) not the Cali Genetics.We were quite used to being very stoned here by the early seventies on some bloody good hash and weed and as far as Hashish goes we have been blessed with more quality imported hash from various countries than anywhere other than holland,most Americans I met b4 10 years ago had never smoked Red seal,Maroc ,Red Leb ,Turkish,Gold seal,Camel,Charas,Kashmiri or Nepalese in any large amount(which is just as bad as never smoking Ac.Gold or the other great weed u guys had all over Cali) and I had smoked them all by the time I left my teens!
There was literally tons of it in UK all the time when I started smoking in the 80's This is just my experience of it but I never smoked weed as strong as the Afghan hash we were blessed with for 2 decades last century.I wish I had those Plants to make my sift as its the smell of my Late childhood,even as a kid b4 I smoked the smell of blackhash and Jamaican Sensi was everywhere in S.London.
On a different note half my Family are from Romani Gypsy heritage and they may have a thing or 2 to say about Global distribution of Canna genetics since Ancient Egyptian times. Probably a little b4 California existed as we know it....So thanks Cali but us Gypsies are still waiting for everyones thanks for spreading Canna to where u alll benefitted from it,so excuse me if I don't bow...Maybe we are just a little less Obsessed with our own importance than U R! Modesty is a virtue! JBo x
B
Bluebeard
Well, I think its a far cry to say that there wasn't any significant cannabis use in the west before the 1960's. I guess it depends on what you mean by significant, since Cannabis is still used much less frequently than alcohol in the west. There were surely British involved with the production in Asia who used the substance recreationally. Opium and Coca based patent medicines were surely used recreationally, so why is it so hard to believe that cannabis based patent medicines were used recreationally? Of course you cannot smoke a tincture, but the shear quantity consumed and demand for these products is very telling. Britain really valued their profits from Cannabis medicines.
In New Orleans in the early 20th century a study was done by prohibitonists and found that a vast majority of the children of minorities in new orleans could recognize cannabis by sight. Certainly Mexico, the Caribbean and South America are a portion of the west, and cannabis use was an integral and well established part of some of these cultures, and not much more restricted to their societal fringes than they are today. There were many roads into mainstream American culture before the 60's as well. There was definitely frequent use among Holywood actors, who surely weren't on the fringes of society.
In New Orleans in the early 20th century a study was done by prohibitonists and found that a vast majority of the children of minorities in new orleans could recognize cannabis by sight. Certainly Mexico, the Caribbean and South America are a portion of the west, and cannabis use was an integral and well established part of some of these cultures, and not much more restricted to their societal fringes than they are today. There were many roads into mainstream American culture before the 60's as well. There was definitely frequent use among Holywood actors, who surely weren't on the fringes of society.
G
Guest
Hiya Londinium, yeah, there was tons of good hash in the Uk until the mid 90s, I think the rise of indoor growing here is precisely because you couldn't but good hash anymore. I mean, I used to grow a bit of weed but I much preferred to smoke hash, I only got serious about growing my own smoke when the good hash dried up. I still love hash, hardly ever see any other than what I or friends make though.
I agree about the lights and techniques being more important. Until you could buy HIDs in about 1979, you had little chance of growing good weed in the UK, and not many were trying to, when you could get 5 grams of amazingly strong black hash for a tenner (and I regularly did even as late as 1997) then who really cared? I can't even remember the last time I saw a piece of Moroccan pollen in the UK but in the 90s I could buy it in 200g blocks easily, it was so soft you could just slice it into strips with a big kitchen knife, just pop one on top of the telly for half an hour to warm up and then it sliced beautifully, golden blonde, just a little tickle with the lighter flame and it would magically expand when you crumbled it, I used to love licking the powder residue off my fingers, that lightly spiced taste, hmmm. I'd probably have to go to Morocco to buy one of those 200g bars nowadays. I remember very few people wanted grass back then, partly because the only grass you saw was imported dark outdoor stuff, although I did have some nice Jamiacan and Thai from time to time, but not often. More than that though, folks liked hashish better, I knew a history professor who used to sprinkle half a gram of pollen into his morning coffee every day then go and lecture about Ancient Greece for two hours. Of course, shite quality 'soap bar' was always around but I don't remember it being the only option until at least 2002, before that there was laways a variety of decent hash to be had.
It's striking the comparison between the quality of the cannabis extract on sale in Britain in 1927 and the quality of the soap bar you cn buy today, there was probably more THC in one little packet of Indian Hemp Solid Extract than you would get in a whole nine-bar of soap!
I agree about the lights and techniques being more important. Until you could buy HIDs in about 1979, you had little chance of growing good weed in the UK, and not many were trying to, when you could get 5 grams of amazingly strong black hash for a tenner (and I regularly did even as late as 1997) then who really cared? I can't even remember the last time I saw a piece of Moroccan pollen in the UK but in the 90s I could buy it in 200g blocks easily, it was so soft you could just slice it into strips with a big kitchen knife, just pop one on top of the telly for half an hour to warm up and then it sliced beautifully, golden blonde, just a little tickle with the lighter flame and it would magically expand when you crumbled it, I used to love licking the powder residue off my fingers, that lightly spiced taste, hmmm. I'd probably have to go to Morocco to buy one of those 200g bars nowadays. I remember very few people wanted grass back then, partly because the only grass you saw was imported dark outdoor stuff, although I did have some nice Jamiacan and Thai from time to time, but not often. More than that though, folks liked hashish better, I knew a history professor who used to sprinkle half a gram of pollen into his morning coffee every day then go and lecture about Ancient Greece for two hours. Of course, shite quality 'soap bar' was always around but I don't remember it being the only option until at least 2002, before that there was laways a variety of decent hash to be had.
It's striking the comparison between the quality of the cannabis extract on sale in Britain in 1927 and the quality of the soap bar you cn buy today, there was probably more THC in one little packet of Indian Hemp Solid Extract than you would get in a whole nine-bar of soap!
V
vod
I enjoy your posts a lot BH. Really informative and well writen. Thank you for sharing and contributing.
G
Guest
Hiya Bluebeard, I think the key thing to remember is that prior to WWI, only a tiny fraction of British society hand ANY spare time for recreation, you were lucky if you got to go to Blackpool of a weekend once a year, possibly on your work's outing, the only social occasions were strictly within your immediate family and community. Cannabis just didn't fit in with the majority of people's lifestyles at the time, it took a cultural upheaval for that to change. I suppose if you look at what recreational use there was, it was largely confined to the 'well off' and was more eating hashish or hashish laced confectionery than smoking. Smoking of cannabis probably started to become popular in Britain in the 1920s with the rise of jazz, although you can make the case that some people were smoking cannabis as far back as Elizabethan days as pipes have been found in his cottage that contained residue of both opium and hemp.
I suppose it is possible that more people than we realise were smoking cannabis in Britain back then but I really don't see it. I realise almost everyone smoked ciagrettes like chimneys and that cannabis was readily at hand, but I just don't think folks were wandering round puffing away on cannabis, I have never heard one mention of smoking dope from anyone who was around back then, it just wasn't part of the culture at the time. I've heard hundreds of tales of drinking (and chasing women) from old timers but never once did one mention dope.
I suppose that there were those who had been in India, possibly in the Army and had been exposed to ganja culture and had smoked it themselves, but I really can't see them bringing that ganja smoking habit home, society was much more moralistic about such things back then.
I suppose it is possible that more people than we realise were smoking cannabis in Britain back then but I really don't see it. I realise almost everyone smoked ciagrettes like chimneys and that cannabis was readily at hand, but I just don't think folks were wandering round puffing away on cannabis, I have never heard one mention of smoking dope from anyone who was around back then, it just wasn't part of the culture at the time. I've heard hundreds of tales of drinking (and chasing women) from old timers but never once did one mention dope.
I suppose that there were those who had been in India, possibly in the Army and had been exposed to ganja culture and had smoked it themselves, but I really can't see them bringing that ganja smoking habit home, society was much more moralistic about such things back then.
G
Guest
Here's a fascinating article From the Encyclopaedia Britannica, 1856, I've highlighted the key passage:
So, reading between the lines a little of that passage, it appears that although the British were fully aware and quite interested in some ways by the hashish of India, they hadn;t experienced it's effects. Obviously, they had tried it back home in England, but either they didn't smoke it properly or as they suspected, the long sea voyage had ruined it. If they are tentatively sampling hashish in 1856 to see if they can experience any of the effects they witnessed in Indians and South African bushmen, I find it very hard to believe that more than a select few folks in Britain had actually been high on cannabis at the time. I would certainly love to track down the works of this Dr O'Shaughnessy, sounds like he made a fairly scientific study of the North Indian hashish culture.
I think that this article shows that in the middle of the 19th century, the western world had full knowledge of cannabis but were mostly interested in it's hemp fibres and mostly left the enjotment of it's intoxifying effects to 'Eastern types'.
If anyone has any other early writings about cannabis, please post them, there is such a paucity of information from before the 1960s.
So, reading between the lines a little of that passage, it appears that although the British were fully aware and quite interested in some ways by the hashish of India, they hadn;t experienced it's effects. Obviously, they had tried it back home in England, but either they didn't smoke it properly or as they suspected, the long sea voyage had ruined it. If they are tentatively sampling hashish in 1856 to see if they can experience any of the effects they witnessed in Indians and South African bushmen, I find it very hard to believe that more than a select few folks in Britain had actually been high on cannabis at the time. I would certainly love to track down the works of this Dr O'Shaughnessy, sounds like he made a fairly scientific study of the North Indian hashish culture.
I think that this article shows that in the middle of the 19th century, the western world had full knowledge of cannabis but were mostly interested in it's hemp fibres and mostly left the enjotment of it's intoxifying effects to 'Eastern types'.
If anyone has any other early writings about cannabis, please post them, there is such a paucity of information from before the 1960s.
G
Guest
Another good article:
Some excellent details of the Indian hashish trade there, and as they ststed, the quality could be supremely high - the Indian brokers refusing to purchase adulterated hashish so the exporters didn't bother. I wonder if all the places mentioned are still producing garda and charas?
From this article you get the impression that the British weren;t interested in smoking this 'crude and nasty drug' but were interested in extracting medicinal substances from it - basically, they made different types of solvent extract. That means you caould have bought very high quality, pharmaceutical grade cannabis oil and solvent extract! Man, If I had a time machine I could go back to the 20s, wander into a tobacconist, buy 20 Player's Navy Cut, then wander into the local chemist or general store and buy a bottle of cannabis extract, dip my ciggies in the bottle and get baked out of my tree - and have change from a shilling! I expect that some of that legendary Yarkand and Baluchistan charas made it's way from India to the Uk to b sold as little blocks of Indian Hemp Solid Extract. It's mind-blowing in a way to think that the very finest charas in the world was being sold in little blocks in every chemist in Britain when my grandad was in short pants! Makes yer all nostalgic for Ramsey McDonald, the General Strike, tuberculosis and 'trouble at mill, by 'eck'! lol
Some excellent details of the Indian hashish trade there, and as they ststed, the quality could be supremely high - the Indian brokers refusing to purchase adulterated hashish so the exporters didn't bother. I wonder if all the places mentioned are still producing garda and charas?
From this article you get the impression that the British weren;t interested in smoking this 'crude and nasty drug' but were interested in extracting medicinal substances from it - basically, they made different types of solvent extract. That means you caould have bought very high quality, pharmaceutical grade cannabis oil and solvent extract! Man, If I had a time machine I could go back to the 20s, wander into a tobacconist, buy 20 Player's Navy Cut, then wander into the local chemist or general store and buy a bottle of cannabis extract, dip my ciggies in the bottle and get baked out of my tree - and have change from a shilling! I expect that some of that legendary Yarkand and Baluchistan charas made it's way from India to the Uk to b sold as little blocks of Indian Hemp Solid Extract. It's mind-blowing in a way to think that the very finest charas in the world was being sold in little blocks in every chemist in Britain when my grandad was in short pants! Makes yer all nostalgic for Ramsey McDonald, the General Strike, tuberculosis and 'trouble at mill, by 'eck'! lol
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G
Guest
A hilarious extract from that last article, in case you missed it:
So they took a small, probably Spaniel-type dog and injected it with TWO OUNCES OF CANNABIS SOLVENT EXTRACT!!!!!! You bet Mr. Pooch was out for the count for a day and a half!!!! They neglect to mention how much Pedigree Chum the stoned little woofer chomped down after he woke up! ROFLMFAO
Then they give another dog a QUARTER OUNCE OF HASH! to eat and are surprised to see the same result! lol
When they say they have never been able to give ANY animal ENOUGH CANNABIS TO CAUSE DEATH you wonder, just what animals and what quantities did these experiments extend to? Are we talking about feeing rats Nepalese Temple balls or feeding an elephant on nothing but bales of ganja until it passes out? Sorry, maybe it;s the Blueberry x Zamalhaze I'm smoking but I just had a paroxysm of laughter over that whole 'just how much ganja does it take to kill an animal' crack.
So they took a small, probably Spaniel-type dog and injected it with TWO OUNCES OF CANNABIS SOLVENT EXTRACT!!!!!! You bet Mr. Pooch was out for the count for a day and a half!!!! They neglect to mention how much Pedigree Chum the stoned little woofer chomped down after he woke up! ROFLMFAO
Then they give another dog a QUARTER OUNCE OF HASH! to eat and are surprised to see the same result! lol
When they say they have never been able to give ANY animal ENOUGH CANNABIS TO CAUSE DEATH you wonder, just what animals and what quantities did these experiments extend to? Are we talking about feeing rats Nepalese Temple balls or feeding an elephant on nothing but bales of ganja until it passes out? Sorry, maybe it;s the Blueberry x Zamalhaze I'm smoking but I just had a paroxysm of laughter over that whole 'just how much ganja does it take to kill an animal' crack.
G
Guest
I also found this article that lists all kinds of charas they tested and it's strength:
Marvellous stuff B.H. I will chat 2 ya later when I've a chance to 'digest' it all (the Info not the Cannabis).U are a hive of Info mate,I really appreciate it, I,m getting all sentimental for the good old days now,I can still smell that Moroc now! Long live the Queen and all that! J
(clockwise from top)Recent Moroc,Kush Skuff,POG dry sift,Indian? and Kashmiri.
(clockwise from top)Recent Moroc,Kush Skuff,POG dry sift,Indian? and Kashmiri.
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Dalaihempy
You know Sam what i did not see to much of here in the erly days ?,Indicas i saw short sativas and sativas from many diffrent locations of the world but i did not realy see to many indicas here im sure they were here but no one i saw growing plants in the 70s grew indicas they realy started to come onto the sean here in the 80s.
The first lines i ever grew that were not a long flowering sativa was infact erly pearl and derbon poison and hindu kush think 1987 my first dutch/ uropen lines i thort they were week compeard to what we had.
The first lines i ever grew that were not a long flowering sativa was infact erly pearl and derbon poison and hindu kush think 1987 my first dutch/ uropen lines i thort they were week compeard to what we had.
