question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[harvestreaper]

sorry to pester you but out of the small percent of standouts you mentioned tom were they very alike or strong diffrences between each other in effects,, you mentiond the citrus an limegreen likeness is it just one pheno or a few ???

 

[Tom Hill]

Regarding the 70's. I did not smoke i was too young. I caught the last of the real thai coming off the boats in the early mid '80's. The remainder of my experience comes from actually growing all these varieties in nor/cal for the last 35 years. This if truth be told is the seed bank of the world and grown men dare not fathom otherwise.

 

[Tom Hill]

The thai was a later intro to haze that i bought and therefore dominates the genepool. All of the best haze i have ever grown or smoked was thai dom citrus. All the other stuff was for girls.

 

[harvestreaper]

The thai was a later intro to haze that i bought and therefore dominates the genepool. All of the best haze i have ever grown or smoked was thai dom citrus. All the other stuff was for girls.

explains why its popular on these haze threads lol

 

[bigherb]

The thai was a later intro to haze that i bought and therefore dominates the genepool. All of the best haze i have ever grown or smoked was thai dom citrus. All the other stuff was for girls.

If you haven’t smoked or grown Thai from the 70’s what gives you this conclusion?

 

[Tom Hill]

I have grown and smoked more thai from the '70's than anybody in this thread with the possible exception of Sam lol. See your reading comprehention is that of a 3rd grader lol

 

[bigherb]

I have grown and smoked more thai from the '70's than anybody in this thread with the possible exception of Sam lol. See your reading comprehention is that of a 3rd grader lol

Regarding the 70's. I did not smoke i was too young. I caught the last of the real thai coming off the boats in the early mid '80's. The remainder of my experience comes from actually growing all these varieties in nor/cal for the last 35 years. This if truth be told is the seed bank of the world and grown men dare not fathom otherwise.

This was your last post

????

Are you Ok

 

[harvestreaper]

todds haze,,, still doing well in poor conditions

 

[Tom Hill]

I have experienced not only imports but grown out unaltered first generation imports from around the world first hand likely moreso than any other man on the planet - certainly more than anybody from santa cruz - what. This is an accepted fact among knowegable men you corner east coast dime store dealer. What is it about what i am saying do you not understand? Do you believe 20 year old seed magically changes from smuggle to sprout?

 

[Dropped Cat]

Same Thai-Haze parent/line as Thunk? Goes back to '81?

That is an excellent question, I have a thunk and
all indications are leaning to a Columbian influence.

 

[yesum]

Have you been smoking the acid pheno Tom? Maybe I have 2nd grade reading abilities. The 70's stuff is unclear to me. I was considered a good reader in 2nd grade btw.

So Thai blows the Colombians or Mexicans away. Got that. I think there were certain rare strains from Mexico and Colombia that were world class but got lost during the 70's or around that.

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

Your knowledge is lacking in Sams statements of the origins of Santa Cruz original Haze and the Haze he spread in Holland . You haven’t been around for awhile

I don’t shine shoes anymore Tom . Not just the kid obsessed with a Frankincense, NYC Haze is a certified legend . Check social networks

I was right about Haze being a lumbo the story I shared was agreed by Sams except for a few details in his words

Hey Bigherb,
What's up? Hope you are doing well...
It seems you are on the lookout for wildlife, all the while ignoring the pink elephant that is standing in the middle of the room.

In 91 when all different hazes were starting to crop up in NYC, Nevil was being busted by DEA, INTERPOL and local Australian authorities for allegedly importing 20 million cannabis seeds into US, they were seeking the death penalty against Nevil.

So I think it is pretty well established that the exotic Hazes that started cropping up in New York City, around 91, were the direct result of Nevil importing hundreds of thousands of the best seed he ever created, 5hzC directly into New York City in 89/90...
I got many variations on Frankincense in my 5hz, and I've never smoked NYC haze, my cousin has, he is a native, and he says my haze was just like the NYC haze from back in the day(go figure).

Below is a grandchild of that legendary cut that is somehow reminiscent of her beauty....

 

[Tom Hill]

Have you been smoking the acid pheno Tom? Maybe I have 2nd grade reading abilities. The 70's stuff is unclear to me. I was considered a good reader in 2nd grade btw.

So Thai blows the Colombians or Mexicans away. Got that. I think there were certain rare strains from Mexico and Colombia that were world class but got lost during the 70's or around that.

You have purt near got it. Yes thai blows everything away that ever came before it. All that other brought 200-300 per pound then thai brought 1800. It was the most massive move ever seen in the history of cannabis zero doubt. It is the reason you know what you know about cannabis. If not for thai we'd all be hanging sheetrock for a living.

 

[@hempy]

Clearly many have not smoked a good old school Thai because the first thing i get from haze NH and heavy haze expressive plants is Thai and Colombian.

 

[Nexus7]

That is an excellent question, I have a thunk and
all indications are leaning to a Columbian influence.

I'm starting to think "Original Haze" and "Haze" on that (Sacred) seed catalog are two different beasts?

Sam can you confirm Thunk is:

Thai/Haze x Skunk

Or

Thai/Original Haze x Skunk?

 

[romanoweed]

Hey Tom

Just wanted to ask did you grow tonns Vietnamese often aswell? Do you preffere Thai or Viet, as the strongest Tripreports come from there.

And wich Facette has old Cambodian?
Just want some guidance about what is what compared. And whats favored.

a Cambod99 x Vietnamblack

 

[Donald Mallard]

I gave seeds to both the Original Haze growers in 1972 and also later, One used Thai and S Indian with his Haze in the very early 70's. The other grew the Thai but decided it was not as good as Haze and did not use it. The very first Original Haze was a crop of both green, lime green, purple, and other colors, all from Columbian, after that I am not sure and anyone that says they are, is just fooling themselves. One of the Haze growers RL told me a different story then the Original Haze guy that did it first up in the SC mountains and then in the next few years moved down to right by my house, less then a block away, the other Haze grower RL, who put out the OH poster lived a block the other side of my house. I had a friend "J" that used to help the SC mountain Haze grower, he was also a good friend of RCC, he told me all about the early Original Haze I never saw, as I got back to SC in early 1972. They both told me different stories, I did not care so much it was the Cannabis I was interested in.
Sacred Seeds never tried to stablize or improve the Original Haze, our only goal was to save as many of the Original Haze genes as I could so I used as many Original Haze females and males as I could. I think I could create an all Original Haze improved line but I would need to grow thousands and thousands of plants to find a few keeper females, the males would require to be transformed into females to be screened as keepers, and/or by progeney trials that would be best. I would have done it already except that Original Haze is a lousey Dry Sift Hash maker and I hate to use so much space to do the work right. If I don't someone will....
I really do not like Original Haze hybrids that use an WLD Indica to make powerful Hazes, they are strong but often lack the pure Sativa high the I prefer. It is easy though.
If done right with just haze taste and effects, and I can't tell it is a hybrid and it is strong as the Haze was, I would like it I bet. Even the Purple Haze from back in the 70's was not really my choice, they did seem a bit stronger then the greens, limes, and blues, but they also had a more narcotic effect to me. They were the prettiest not the best, to me.
-SamS

I just read all the posts from my last post #1945 to #2376.The seeds I sold to Nevil were all made by me mostly from Holland work.
I never sold any I collected from Haze I obtained from the Haze Bros. I sold my work.
J & G are the same guy. Almost all my OHaze seeds were from him.
I never sold any OHaze X S Indian Kerala or Thai as OHaze, I always called them OHaze X whatever.
Burning Bush was 100% pure OHaze I grew it in Calif and named it, RCC also smoked it with me, and loved it. That and another OHaze I called Cream De La Cream and another I called Mr Greasy even though it was a girl, it had very very streched laddery buds that even when dry and placed in a zip bag greased up the bag unbelievably, it was also hard to roll and keep a joint lit.
Nevil did not have OHaze seeds from before the 70's 80"s as he got his OHaze from me and I only sold him seeds I had made, all 100% OHaze, but not from the 60's or early 70's as I did not start making OHaze seeds until the mid 70's and in large amounts in the 80's in Holland. I think I sold him seeds I made in Holland after 85'.

I will try and answer a few questions if I know the answers, but will ignore any questions I have answered before. Dont ask me about others Haze as I was not the breeder you need to ask the breeder.

The reason that OHaze was seldom found in Coffee shops in Amsterdam is because commercial growers wanted herb with a short flowering period, why would they grow a OHaze that took 16-24 weeks and did not yield as much as a 7-8 week plant?
That and I was a seed producer not a commercial grower if I was I would have worked up an OHaze pure, that was better then NH at least to me.
I get that not all liked OHaze X Skunk or Thai/OHazeXSkunk but I did and many others I know also did.
I also have yet to find any Cannabis that had a more Cerebral, Clear, Up, Psychdelic high with no celing that got you higher every time you took a toke. Nevils did not, for me anyway.
People have many different preferences I also have mine. RCC agrees with me if that matters. I did not see OHaze until the very early 70's I did see both G's and RL's my wife manicured for G and he was the first OHaze Bro, we were close back in the day, and his was the best. Shame he quite growing OHaze but it was so much easier to get my Skunk #1 seeds for his grows, this was before people maintained clones, and his OHaze was already suffering from inbreeding depression, I did not try and improve my OHaze seed lines I tried to preserve all the genes and only sold them with the advice to use them for breeding not commercial growing, to use for commercial growing you need to grow thousands and select the best 10 clones to reproduce for product, few people wanted to do that.
I sold Nevil seeds for $1 a pop for any of my varieties.
I sold by the kilo for €5,000 there are 50,000 - 75,000 for small seeds like OHaze.
I still have a KG of OHaze seeds made a decade ago they are not for sale they are for a OHaze project I am trying to arrange outdoors in the ground at a latitude of 18 just to find and clone the best 10-20 for production where legal.
I have zero problems to keep well made seeds alive stored under refridgerated 4c for 25 years so they are still germainating in the high 90's if and when I do this I will post photos of the 10-20 as well as their Cannabinoid and terpene profiles.
These are slightly over 75 per gram so 75,000 seeds and normally I get 70% females with OHaze so I will have lots to select the 10-20 keepers from, I expect about 50,000 females if started carefully. I am retired from selling seeds, but I will allow others to do what they want with my work, they will pay me for the work, and it is not work as I want to do it even retired.

FYI the OHaze grown by the Haze Bros were not all equal in quality, maybe 10% were fantastic, 50% good or great, and maybe 10% not as good but most would still think it was great. Each year after 1970 the quality and yields and vigor declined a bit. By 1980 I did not know any large OHaze growers, for the reasons I have stated.

I have told the truth, I have zero to gain by altering the truth, I am retired for several years now. I have had a great life, few complaints, I would like to put out a dependable pure OHaze seed line or two for my self and others, even if I do not sell them but let others do so. Selling is work, I do not need the $ and I will only do what I love today. Breeding OHaze is not work for me it is fun, and I think I can do it better then anyone else just because of my experience and history.

FYI I have all but given up on Phylos, they have other goals then my interest in Cannabis Evolution and Relationships, but FYI I only sent them extracted DNA no living materials they could steal, I also sent them many of my varieties DNA, focused on Landraces to help explore my interest in Evolution and Relationships. I am glad I tried, nothing ventured nothing gained.....

-SamS

New Haze? I have never had any new Haze Hybrid that was better than Original Haze, when it came to the tastes or effects, Nevil (RIP) never sold pure Haze he always made and sold hybrids, they could yield better, but did not have all the effects that the best pure Hazes had, powerfull, very clear, up, psychedelic cerebral high, the best of which were no ceiling, evey puff got you higher.
Nevils Haze, New Haze, why not just develop a new variety with new genetics and a new name instead of using other peoples work?
Orginal Haze was made from Colombian landraces for example. I prefered breeding with landraces as the parents, instead of using selections bred by other Western Cannabis breeders as parents, but that is just my choice I guess? I do love Haze as well as many of the best NLD landraces that were bred by generations of farmers for hundreds of years.


-SamS

Clearly many have not smoked a good old school Thai because the first thing i get from haze NH and heavy haze expressive plants is Thai and Colombian.

i took a look at earlier parts of this thread and highlighed parts that folks are mentioning now ,
of course i have no idea what folks are growing or toking or they were sold ,
but you can read what the guy supplying the stuff said ..



fyi ,, i picked thh for something with thai in it ,
it was so similar to other types we had locally that were either all or mostly thai ,
it was what we mostly had in oz , thai , indian and limited amounts of other things , initially that is ,, we used seed from imported weed ,, there were no seedbanks ..

 

[Guest]

I still don't get why the DNA results from sams haze haven't been posted... I know they had a fallout but his skunk and quite a few others of his gear are there. Would help . Old timers haze is analyzed(100 % Lumbo) ,some nevil clones, too...

All those contradicting quotes from Sam are clearly pointing that we can t count on him for the truth ...Be it the time gap or lack of info...All due respect. So only some DNA tests could shed some light.

Plants are speaking the truth and seems seedsman version is pure lumbo , old timers the same, toms haze has Thai and who knows what todds is...

 

[HAZENACIOUS]

My

The thai was a later intro to haze that i bought and therefore dominates the genepool. All of the best haze i have ever grown or smoked was thai dom citrus. All the other stuff was for girls.

Hi Tom,

I like the incense phenos as was my original cut, recently the citrus phenos tend to wind up being my favorite though, like the cut pictured below, because they have that infinite expansive effect on the mind, they peak around 4-5 hours and there is no feeling of burnout. While the above plant is an incense pheno pictured below is another granddaughter of my 5hz cut, my favorite right now, she smells sweet and citrusy orange with a fine astringent heady quality, a scent of Grand Marnier

 

[JohnnyChicago]

guys, dont mind me, I will just post some pics in the middle of your argument

View Image View Image View Image

This looks amazing as does some THH pics in your gallery
What Original Haze is this ? , Tom,Sam, Mac ?
Either way looks amazing , nice work.

You got some pistils! Finally
Nice done Elanius.
Let us know how it smells compared to THH.

Should be from my lime green metal male selection, Ojd.
Happy to see you like it.