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question for sam the skunkman on the original haze
- Thread starter bigherb
- Start date
^cheers Dave and Herb^
Warped Thunky, foreground; along with a NevHzMango, left, and narrowest-leaved
Nev'sHaze (of 8), background.
Another Thunk is above ground, as is 1 OHxS1. Both are very slow to grow.
Warped Thunky, foreground; along with a NevHzMango, left, and narrowest-leaved
Nev'sHaze (of 8), background.
Another Thunk is above ground, as is 1 OHxS1. Both are very slow to grow.
When I grew out Sams HazeSkunk Hybrid, they had more vigor than everything else in the garden. Signs of F1 Hybrid Vigor, ime. I believe it is an F1. Sam can correct me If I am wrong. It'd be nice if he'd share some info on this cross though..wink wink.
Your seedlings are exhibiting signs of etiolation. Give them more light and you'll see a increase in growth rates. Oh and be prepared to feed them. This haze hybrid could really use up nutrients quickly, ime.
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^cheers for the info, Sam^
These old seeds are, by far, the least vigorous on this grow.
They were started June 11, and everything started after has easily surpassed them.
Frankly, I was surprised they even cracked, as they weren't stored as well as they could have been here.
re: F1s. That's what my plan is- that is, if I get male and female (T)HxS1s...
work/steer them into the F4-F6 range, while doing the same with Nev's Haze and/or NevHzMango,
and then cross them.
I've already got greenHazexThai worked out to around F5 for doing the same.
We've got a cute li'l heat wave going on now that precludes using the bank of T5s, that would reduce elongation.
They're also light-colored in the stem due to thai/greenHaze leanings, like this (Johnny Blaze F2) x (GreenHazexThai F3)...
...started June 22, foto'd on the 26th.
saludos
hola Dave. Sam winked back.
These old seeds are, by far, the least vigorous on this grow.
They were started June 11, and everything started after has easily surpassed them.
Frankly, I was surprised they even cracked, as they weren't stored as well as they could have been here.
re: F1s. That's what my plan is- that is, if I get male and female (T)HxS1s...
work/steer them into the F4-F6 range, while doing the same with Nev's Haze and/or NevHzMango,
and then cross them.
I've already got greenHazexThai worked out to around F5 for doing the same.
They're under direct sun, with various levels of shading as the day heats up.
We've got a cute li'l heat wave going on now that precludes using the bank of T5s, that would reduce elongation.
They're also light-colored in the stem due to thai/greenHaze leanings, like this (Johnny Blaze F2) x (GreenHazexThai F3)...
...started June 22, foto'd on the 26th.
saludos
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^cheers for the info, Sam^
hola Dave. Sam winked back.
These old seeds are, by far, the least vigorous on this grow.
They were started June 11, and everything started after has easily surpassed them.
Frankly, I was surprised they even cracked, as they weren't stored as well as they could have been here.
re: F1s. That's what my plan is- that is, if I get male and female (T)HxS1s...
work/steer them into the F4-F6 range, while doing the same with Nev's Haze and/or NevHzMango,
and then cross them.
I've already got greenHazexThai worked out to around F5 for doing the same.
They're under direct sun, with various levels of shading as the day heats up.
We've got a cute li'l heat wave going on now that precludes using the bank of T5s, that would reduce elongation.
They're also light-colored in the stem due to thai/greenHaze leanings, like this (Johnny Blaze F2) x (GreenHazexThai F3)...
https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=49368&pictureid=1459933View Image
...started June 22, foto'd on the 26th.
saludos
Thanks for sharing the info Sam. Must be some fine parents judging from what I got in my seeds. Ive got another freebie pack and lots of f2's ready to go some day.
Lowfalutin, Im sure the HazeSkunk will catch up in time. You've got along way to go, so I wouldn't sweat it too much. I hope your heat wave will break soon so you can get them a lil more sun. I like your cautious approach. I dont have the luxury of outdoors growing, but I suppose indoor growing has its advantages too.
Your haze projects sound like a blast. I made F2's using 3 different ladies when I ran Sams HazeSkunk for further exploration. Ive already ran Mango Haze, and I have N. Haze in the freezer too waiting on me. Seems we have similar taste
I'm vaping an F1 now, ACE/CBG's Nepal Haze......
...
Your haze projects sound like a blast. I made F2's using 3 different ladies when I ran Sams HazeSkunk for further exploration. Ive already ran Mango Haze, and I have N. Haze in the freezer too waiting on me. Seems we have similar taste
https://www.seedboutique.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=3&products_id=28
https://www.seedboutique.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=643
The nepalese was sourced from Reeferman I believe, and Charlie/Kaiki chose a green oldtimers haze for shooting the money shot.
There's something almost mediterranean cooking-ish about using just a few quality ingredients in your crosses.
re: Nev's Haze. It wouldn't surprise me if the Nl5/HazeA mum used to create it has been worked to > F4,
to get more proper F1 hybrid vigor when hit with HazeC pollen.
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Hi bigherb, Sam didn't post it, so you have to read between the lines how I came upon the info. I received that haze stock recently, nothing to do with what Kanga was playing with (commercial lines I believe) with the understanding I wouldn't talk about the source or share the seeds....terrible I know. But here's a tidbit - Reeferman told a story to a friend of mine of how he was given pure Haze by Sam to grow en mass in Mexico. He still has that haze line (for all I know mine may have come from that exchange), but he reckons his new Vietnamese he's selling as FEM is stronger than all the rest.
Haze...
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Sup brother
Thanks for sharing as always , your contributions are appreciated. I miss your post and pics Soo it's exciting when you drop in
It's been said a million times before I wish Sams would share more details . I understand though
I might have confused you when I mentioned d brother Kanga and then said our brother in the later part of my post . I was speaking about another brother of our community and IC Fam
I know the source of your Haze you mentioned him when you first got the stock . Like yourself because of respect I won't say a word
I'm happy to see Reef posting he has a lot to share and his post are sometimes very detailed,as you know I like that . I think he's a great breeder with unique genetics and look forward to his future offerings.
He blew my mind when he responded to me about his Haze Bros Haze . Straight from Sams and the description was like a page from my book .The fact he named a Punto Rojo hybrid accidental Haze before that info was released tells me this cat know his haze
1luvbigherb
JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
Original haze (week16)
JohnnyChicago
Well-known member
Hi Bushy,
Original Haze out in the wild is a rare sight. Do the growth characteristics in your opinion more resemble a Thai, Indian or Colombian the most?
Hi Thule, I'll do my best to answer your question. First off, I believe this Haze to be a relative of what was given to Nevil by Sam in the mid 80s - there's too much similarity in the aromas of Neville's and Mango Haze for it to be otherwise.
Now if somebody told me the Haze I grew was a Thai hybrid, it wouldn't surprise me...unlike the aforementioned haze hybrids the pure haze reminds me a lot in overall structure to Kangativa's MM, which is a Thai hybrid. Also the airy flowers remind me of the sort of domestic narrow leaf Thai which you often see around today, but better quality.
It is in the aromas that I think the Colombian influence is pronounced - that is not to say the overall structure is not obviously Colombian as well - perhaps it is. However, if you recall Dj Shorts description of Thais and how one branch would shoot up every other day and take over as the top branch - the haze wasn't like that....that is to say it doesn't have the incredible vigor of some of the vaunted Thais that even today can hit 25 feet.
In summary the Haze could be a Thai hybrid in structure, but the flower smells are too sweet and fruity IMO. I tend to believe bigherb and latterly Sam when they say the haze was primarily Punto Rojo then crossed to a green Colombian, then possibly some others. Like a 50% Colombian with the rest being Mexican/Indian/Thai would sound about right.
Now if somebody told me the Haze I grew was a Thai hybrid, it wouldn't surprise me...unlike the aforementioned haze hybrids the pure haze reminds me a lot in overall structure to Kangativa's MM, which is a Thai hybrid. Also the airy flowers remind me of the sort of domestic narrow leaf Thai which you often see around today, but better quality.
It is in the aromas that I think the Colombian influence is pronounced - that is not to say the overall structure is not obviously Colombian as well - perhaps it is. However, if you recall Dj Shorts description of Thais and how one branch would shoot up every other day and take over as the top branch - the haze wasn't like that....that is to say it doesn't have the incredible vigor of some of the vaunted Thais that even today can hit 25 feet.
In summary the Haze could be a Thai hybrid in structure, but the flower smells are too sweet and fruity IMO. I tend to believe bigherb and latterly Sam when they say the haze was primarily Punto Rojo then crossed to a green Colombian, then possibly some others. Like a 50% Colombian with the rest being Mexican/Indian/Thai would sound about right.
Hello BW,
Thanks for this info.
The old NH cutting thats is being kept in South Holland is very much Colombian dominated with a touch of the crazyness of the Thai in it.
The picturs of this pure haze you have grown remind me of the NH mucho, looks more like a hybrid then a straight haze but then again, i didnt pop any of SamS seeds. I just go on the feedback givin to me by the people that worked Nevs old hybrids and parential stock, re hHze A & C, and the crazy, unpractical female Haze B, which was very hawaiian dom according to these folks.
Whatever the case, i love your pictures and contrubutions and would really like to have a taste of this pure haze you have got. Seems amazing to say the least.
When you compare the best MM to this haze in terms of potency which one do you prefer and which one is the better smoke in yr oppinion?
Cheers man.
RCC is not "R" from High Times, I can assure you of that.
"R" is "Ron Rosenbaum"
Use this link and push the link there on that post.:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4356067&postcount=519
I knew both Haze growers, they live apart within 2 blocks of my home in Santa Cruz in both directions. They grew almost all Colombian Haze, until it started running out of vigor from being inbred. Then one tried Haze X Thai and S Indian to increase vigor, and grew them all for several more years.
That is why I reproduced O Haze with very large numbers almost unselected, I did not want to lose genes. Almost all of the other hazes were hybrids like Nevils Haze, and many others out there, great for quality and vigor but not pure Haze. I wanted to save pure O Haze so I did, and I made O Haze X Skunk and Thai/Haze X Skunk for commercial use by growers as the pure O Haze is really a breeders tool more then commercial stock.
I could grow out 10-50 thousand O Haze and pick out the best 10 females and 10 males and make crosses of them and grow out the 100 different populations, say 200 seeds of each of the 100 progeny populations and then you can easily see which parents are the best to keep, by judging the maybe 100 females progeny in each of the 100 populations. Or do it with only females to use half as many plants to get similar results, but I prefer male/female dioecious seeds not all female seeds. I do not mind large populations they yield better results.
That would give O Haze from seed almost as good as it was. If you first selected the clone parents and confirm their progeny with trials, and save the best of the best. You could produce the exact same seeds for ever.
When legal it will be done for sure or be done with new Colombian lines if they can be found that were as good as in the late 60's and are still today pure Colombian? But I have had many Cannabis varieties from around the world that had very potent and psychedelic effects like O Haze, I had so much O Haze herb that I found ones I really liked, maybe better then any Thai, or other great NLD varieties, but with science and the new understanding of Cannabinoids and terpenes I am sure that Cannabis in the future will be better then today or yesterday, just like Sinsemilla was better then seeded Cannabis. Breeders will create varieties of Cannabis with the exact Cannabinoid & terpene profile in the ratio wanted without any terpenes that are unwanted, and that future is very close, all done with classical breeding, it will happen very soon.
-SamS
The RCC photo below was from my greenhouse my plants, I don't remember what the photo or genes were except part or all Colombian for sure, maybe Thai and/or S Indian also?
For photos RCC likes colors, I like effects, and do not care if it is pretty or not.
-SamS
"R" is "Ron Rosenbaum"
Use this link and push the link there on that post.:
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=4356067&postcount=519
I knew both Haze growers, they live apart within 2 blocks of my home in Santa Cruz in both directions. They grew almost all Colombian Haze, until it started running out of vigor from being inbred. Then one tried Haze X Thai and S Indian to increase vigor, and grew them all for several more years.
That is why I reproduced O Haze with very large numbers almost unselected, I did not want to lose genes. Almost all of the other hazes were hybrids like Nevils Haze, and many others out there, great for quality and vigor but not pure Haze. I wanted to save pure O Haze so I did, and I made O Haze X Skunk and Thai/Haze X Skunk for commercial use by growers as the pure O Haze is really a breeders tool more then commercial stock.
I could grow out 10-50 thousand O Haze and pick out the best 10 females and 10 males and make crosses of them and grow out the 100 different populations, say 200 seeds of each of the 100 progeny populations and then you can easily see which parents are the best to keep, by judging the maybe 100 females progeny in each of the 100 populations. Or do it with only females to use half as many plants to get similar results, but I prefer male/female dioecious seeds not all female seeds. I do not mind large populations they yield better results.
That would give O Haze from seed almost as good as it was. If you first selected the clone parents and confirm their progeny with trials, and save the best of the best. You could produce the exact same seeds for ever.
When legal it will be done for sure or be done with new Colombian lines if they can be found that were as good as in the late 60's and are still today pure Colombian? But I have had many Cannabis varieties from around the world that had very potent and psychedelic effects like O Haze, I had so much O Haze herb that I found ones I really liked, maybe better then any Thai, or other great NLD varieties, but with science and the new understanding of Cannabinoids and terpenes I am sure that Cannabis in the future will be better then today or yesterday, just like Sinsemilla was better then seeded Cannabis. Breeders will create varieties of Cannabis with the exact Cannabinoid & terpene profile in the ratio wanted without any terpenes that are unwanted, and that future is very close, all done with classical breeding, it will happen very soon.
-SamS
The RCC photo below was from my greenhouse my plants, I don't remember what the photo or genes were except part or all Colombian for sure, maybe Thai and/or S Indian also?
For photos RCC likes colors, I like effects, and do not care if it is pretty or not.
-SamS
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https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=6713067&highlight=clarke+haze#post6713067
I'm not doubting bigherb and sam's knowledge/research. one reason why so much controversy.
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4192724&highlight=clarke#post4192724
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=4355914&highlight=clarke#post4355914
sam ever confirm this about " R "?
Yo Sammy,
"old NH cutting thats is being kept in South Holland."
How do I get a dead dry leaf to test the DNA so I can see what it is and where it is from, Colombia, or Thai or what?
Also we can tell if it has any WLD genes or what it is exactly.
PM me.
-SamS
"old NH cutting thats is being kept in South Holland."
How do I get a dead dry leaf to test the DNA so I can see what it is and where it is from, Colombia, or Thai or what?
Also we can tell if it has any WLD genes or what it is exactly.
PM me.
-SamS
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I think I deleted my post on the qualities I liked in Haze?
Potent, up, electric, speedy, clear, cerebral, euphoric, psychedelic, energetic, mental, as well as no ceiling, every time you take a hit you get higher and get rushes. Makes folks turn white and get low blood pressure and pass out when they stand up, get paranoid. I like it and do not get too high, that is what I like. Along with the right terpenes, and none of the wrong ones, for taste and effects.
I found purple haze maybe more potent but more physical, I liked the silver-blue and lime-green better.
-SamS
Potent, up, electric, speedy, clear, cerebral, euphoric, psychedelic, energetic, mental, as well as no ceiling, every time you take a hit you get higher and get rushes. Makes folks turn white and get low blood pressure and pass out when they stand up, get paranoid. I like it and do not get too high, that is what I like. Along with the right terpenes, and none of the wrong ones, for taste and effects.
I found purple haze maybe more potent but more physical, I liked the silver-blue and lime-green better.
-SamS
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Curious why the interest in NH
The Haze stock is from you . I'm sure you know what stock you gave him . The topic of the parents of Nevil's Haze stock you gave him has been a question of mine and many others since he first posted info 66-69 burning bush ETC
Only you would know which exact stock he was given and if it may have Thai blood .
The only parents you wouldn't know I woukd think is the NL5 which is reported affie passed to a Hawaiian dude hence affie x Hawaiian . But as we know the Hawaiian could be many things which is where I think the Thai thought came from Nevil
So maybe a NL5 is what your looking for
1luvbigherb
