question for sam the skunkman on the original haze

[TheDarkStorm]

B. Early Haze
Original Haze #1-4
Extra late New Years Haze
Burning Bush
Mr. Greasy
Haze #19

So which line is the one Todd got? Can't all be O.Haze ...You mixed them all together?

In 1975 it was made in to one ibl line....an in 1976 the first attempt at strain branding was done an the posters released....the 1975 ibl line was officially branded as The ORIGINAL Haze...an thats the line sam resurrected in Holland from 1976 stock...its one line...an I suppose technically the only ORIGINAL HAZE (once branded)

 

[Benny106]

An ibl of a four way nld at that point or pure colombian or both and all at once with more than the above?

If it were punto roja, then maybe the highland and lowland varietals were more than just a response to altitude...maybe it was that less broad leaf made it into the mountains?

Could that be where the 10 weekers come from? Bld was there back in the day from the pharma excursions no?

 

[TheDarkStorm]

Same Thai-Haze parent/line as Thunk? Goes back to '81?

1980 was wen sam did a deal with the brothers..an recived their own parent stock....rember he said he grew out some an named them himself....eg mr greasy an burning bush.

 

[sbeanonnamellow]

This thread has me thinking how Phylos really missed the boat in mapping these heirloom and modern genetics for common ancestry.

The science and tech is available, but the work doesn't seem to be valuable to those with access and ability. Or at least, putting it into the pubilc realm doesn't sem to be. Maybe when plant utility patents become a thing will the genetics really get looked at, because money of course.

Until then, these conversations will keep spinning in circles depending on whose "side" of the story one chooses to believe, ect.

Memories are funny things, but as it's often said, proof is in the pudding. It's in the seed. Some stuff I've let go the notion that I'll figure out the exact lineage by scouring forums and written word. It's just not gonna happen.

Shanti has some good stuff, Cultivators Choice has some good stuff, Todd's stuff is most likely pretty good. It's out there, and a lot of life as cliche as it sounds is about the journey not the final destination. The hunt is as enjoyable as the victory of success type of thing.

One thing these conversations do for me lately is help keep my perspective and heart open. When we're genuienly trying to connect and share experiences we're on the right track.

This got me thinking, if molecular testing is out of reach to most of us, what about testing for cannabinoid and terpene profiles. A fingerprint of sorts. While not fully encompassing, cannabinoid and terpene ratios analysed across populations should show something about the genes and how they're mixed or haven't been mixed. Maybe I'm just sleep deprived today, thoughts? Much love

 

[harvestreaper]

Quote by Nevil on 10/11wk Original Haze seed :



"O for Omega. It was a 1970 seed. I suspected that it was only 25% Haze with one parent being Indica. It too did not really pan out."


All the good plants Nevil claim came from the 69 bag, haze C and A male and they were 16 weekers , hazeA could take longer. The 70 bag produced the Omega plant, which NEvil thought / suspected it was only 25% real haze compared to his other Hazes. ( even if Sam says they are pure OH ... Nevil didnt consider these plants real original haze ). Sam will say that all the seed he sold him was pure OH but Nevil seemed to think different.


What next ? 8 weeker social Original Haze ? ha haha


So how great was it ? Was it as good as the longer flowering ones that had the disorienting hazey trippy panic attack psychedelic like high , like the 14/16wk Nevils Hz do ? Or just great


Cause if they were that great why would anyone keep the longer flowering ones , right ? Let alone that would make it a revolution in cannabis genetics , getting 10wk plants which carry the high of 16wk plants consistently

so as soon as neville aquired haze seeds from sam he was an expert on what was pure an what was not ? dont make any sense at all ?lol how many haze seeds neville go through to find A an C anyone know?

 

[RoyalFlush]

so as soon as neville aquired haze seeds from sam he was an expert on what was pure an what was not ? dont make any sense at all ?lol how many haze seeds neville go through to find A an C anyone know?

it doesn't make any sense because you're blinded by your ignorance and bias.

 

[F2F]

Memories are funny things, but as it's often said, proof is in the pudding. It's in the seed. Some stuff I've let go the notion that I'll figure out the exact lineage by scouring forums and written word. It's just not gonna happen...

This got me thinking, if molecular testing is out of reach to most of us, what about testing for cannabinoid and terpene profiles. A fingerprint of sorts. While not fully encompassing, cannabinoid and terpene ratios analysed across populations should show something about the genes and how they're mixed or haven't been mixed. Maybe I'm just sleep deprived today, thoughts? Much love

Hiya Sbean,

Older I get the more I move towards your perspective for all things in life.

Regarding cannabis my observation has been this - as it moved from being held as landrace/ibl/tribal, etc towards distribution to the masses focus has changed . Breeding focus on effect of the plant has often been secondary to flower time, terps, stature, THC & cannabinoid %, etc. in my opinion it is the reason why psychoactivity (Thai stick e.g.) has degraded as the old timers around here tell us.

Peace,
F2F

 

[harvestreaper]

This thread has me thinking how Phylos really missed the boat in mapping these heirloom and modern genetics for common ancestry.

The science and tech is available, but the work doesn't seem to be valuable to those with access and ability. Or at least, putting it into the pubilc realm doesn't sem to be. Maybe when plant utility patents become a thing will the genetics really get looked at, because money of course.

Until then, these conversations will keep spinning in circles depending on whose "side" of the story one chooses to believe, ect.

Memories are funny things, but as it's often said, proof is in the pudding. It's in the seed. Some stuff I've let go the notion that I'll figure out the exact lineage by scouring forums and written word. It's just not gonna happen.

Shanti has some good stuff, Cultivators Choice has some good stuff, Todd's stuff is most likely pretty good. It's out there, and a lot of life as cliche as it sounds is about the journey not the final destination. The hunt is as enjoyable as the victory of success type of thing.

One thing these conversations do for me lately is help keep my perspective and heart open. When we're genuienly trying to connect and share experiences we're on the right track.

This got me thinking, if molecular testing is out of reach to most of us, what about testing for cannabinoid and terpene profiles. A fingerprint of sorts. While not fully encompassing, cannabinoid and terpene ratios analysed across populations should show something about the genes and how they're mixed or haven't been mixed. Maybe I'm just sleep deprived today, thoughts? Much love

as long as the genetics that can produce the plants we like are preserved i personally dont care about molecular makeup ,get some good ones breed or cross to other good examples and back to own lines should suffice,,,did ok last few thousand years ,, as far as the community goes its not about whos side you want its about truth ,not opinion, truth can be proven and is the building block of progress we just all need the courage to deal with it ,specially if it goes against our wish/want ,add the fangirl an accountancy motivated posts and we enter a difffrent realm alltogether lol

 

[sbeanonnamellow]

It's the environment as much as the genetic makeup, along with selections that determine preservation of traits in a line or not.

The pure and heirloom genetics are being lost at a staggering rate compared to the last few thousand years. Extinction by hybridization and introgression because these haze lines aren't being worked and haven't been worked in their natural locations since the 70's.

Selections away from these larger scale populations forever change the line good or bad.

I guess it depends if you're perspective is preservation of a an entire seedline, or of individual traits found in select individuals within said line.

The truth is in the molecular makeup of the seeds and plants. It's unbiased.

It'll be a hoot to kick back one day and see the common ancestry of these varieties and how the populations diverged and/or converged. I don't take "sides" because I wasn't there and don't know, but the way people come across counts for a lot.

Some people are surely gonna have egg on their face though. I wonder who, but it doesn't really matter. It always comes back to the proof is in the pudding, it's story is in the seed. And we got what we got access to. We aren't time traveling back to 1970's Santa Cruz and sowing fields or collecting seed from hazebros ourselves. Fact is, these lines haven't been "preserved" for decades apart from saved seed.

Outside Colombia it's not Wacky Weed, or Punta Rojo. In Santa Cruz the local terroir makes it unique. These lines have been diverging ever since they left Northern California just like they were once they left Colombia, and before they got to Colombia the same thing. Rinse and repeat. Growing them at various latitudes, climates, indoor vs out, it changes things without the populations needed to give the line a chance if wanting to preserve an entire line.

Preserving reflections of a line in smaller populations, sure. But preserving Ohaze like it was when they were sowing fields in the mountains is something else. Rambling at this point I should toke up. Much love

 

[harvestreaper]

it doesn't make any sense because you're blinded by your ignorance and bias.

can you back your statement with any proof>>? lets grow together

 

[harvestreaper]

It's the environment as much as the genetic makeup, along with selections that determine preservation of traits in a line or not.

The pure and heirloom genetics are being lost at a staggering rate compared to the last few thousand years. Extinction by hybridization and introgression because these haze lines aren't being worked and haven't been worked in their natural locations since the 70's.

Selections away from these larger scale populations forever change the line good or bad.

I guess it depends if you're perspective is preservation of a an entire seedline, or of individual traits found in select individuals within said line.

The truth is in the molecular makeup of the seeds and plants. It's unbiased.

It'll be a hoot to kick back one day and see the common ancestry of these varieties and how the populations diverged and/or converged. I don't take "sides" because I wasn't there and don't know, but the way people come across counts for a lot.

Some people are surely gonna have egg on their face though. I wonder who, but it doesn't really matter. It always comes back to the proof is in the pudding, it's story is in the seed. And we got what we got access to. We aren't time traveling back to 1970's Santa Cruz and sowing fields or collecting seed from hazebros ourselves. Fact is, these lines haven't been "preserved" for decades apart from saved seed.

Outside Colombia it's not Wacky Weed, or Punta Rojo. In Santa Cruz the local terroir makes it unique. These lines have been diverging ever since they left Northern California just like they were once they left Colombia, and before they got to Colombia the same thing. Rinse and repeat. Growing them at various latitudes, climates, indoor vs out, it changes things without the populations needed to give the line a chance if wanting to preserve and entire line.

Preserving reflections of a line in smaller populations, sure. But preserving Ohaze like it was when they were sowing fields in the mountains is something else. Rambling at this point I should toke up. Much love

agreed almost impossible to preserve in original form ,,but did we ever know the true extent of preservation before the masses became aware of these lines?its hard to guess ,im a beliver many can come from a few so i rightly or wrongly dont feel to concernred about extinction,i agree also would be real interesting to see the links between the lines on some kinda chart for sure if chemistry could show us

 

[RoyalFlush]

can you back your statement with any proof>>? lets grow together

Let's grow together my ass. Cut the crap bud I can see right thru you like a window, your not here for a discussion, your bias is looking to fight/argue in defense for your honeybun. No point in wasting my time with you

 

[harvestreaper]

Let's grow together my ass. Cut the crap bud I can see right thru you like a window, your not here for a discussion, your bias is looking to fight/argue in defense for your honeybun. No point in wasting my time with you

,,
i have no idea what your talking about im not involved with either side of the nonsence that goes on here and truths my hunny bun which you can have any way you want

 

[sbeanonnamellow]

Let's grow together my ass. Cut the crap bud I can see right thru you like a window, your not here for a discussion, your bias is looking to fight/argue in defense for your honeybun. No point in wasting my time with you

I think it's a more than fair point to bring up. Nevil only got a couple plants to sprout out of a few thousand. I wouldn't count that as being an expert on the line either. Do you?

 

[elanius]

Ohaze @ 20 weeks

Ohaze @ 20 weeks

guys, dont mind me, I will just post some pics in the middle of your argument

 

[Donald Mallard]

It's the environment as much as the genetic makeup, along with selections that determine preservation of traits in a line or not.

The pure and heirloom genetics are being lost at a staggering rate compared to the last few thousand years. Extinction by hybridization and introgression because these haze lines aren't being worked and haven't been worked in their natural locations since the 70's.

Selections away from these larger scale populations forever change the line good or bad.

I guess it depends if you're perspective is preservation of a an entire seedline, or of individual traits found in select individuals within said line.

The truth is in the molecular makeup of the seeds and plants. It's unbiased.

It'll be a hoot to kick back one day and see the common ancestry of these varieties and how the populations diverged and/or converged. I don't take "sides" because I wasn't there and don't know, but the way people come across counts for a lot.

Some people are surely gonna have egg on their face though. I wonder who, but it doesn't really matter. It always comes back to the proof is in the pudding, it's story is in the seed. And we got what we got access to. We aren't time traveling back to 1970's Santa Cruz and sowing fields or collecting seed from hazebros ourselves. Fact is, these lines haven't been "preserved" for decades apart from saved seed.

Outside Colombia it's not Wacky Weed, or Punta Rojo. In Santa Cruz the local terroir makes it unique. These lines have been diverging ever since they left Northern California just like they were once they left Colombia, and before they got to Colombia the same thing. Rinse and repeat. Growing them at various latitudes, climates, indoor vs out, it changes things without the populations needed to give the line a chance if wanting to preserve an entire line.

Preserving reflections of a line in smaller populations, sure. But preserving Ohaze like it was when they were sowing fields in the mountains is something else. Rambling at this point I should toke up. Much love

thats a great post mr bean ,
i highlighted things i think are important and that ive debated with the odd member before ,
ie take it out of its climate/eniroment , start 1 to 1 matings , things change quickly ,
yes its the same genetics ,
but where it is grown is what makes it unique and a landrace seperate to other landraces ,
if that didnt happen , they would all be the same and there would be nothing unique about them ....

 

[willydread]

guys, dont mind me, I will just post some pics in the middle of your argument

View Image View Image View Image

Oh... Again, again, again!!!

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

guys, dont mind me, I will just post some pics in the middle of your argument

View Image View Image View Image

Fucking awesome, elanius. Thanks for posting those shots up.


HB.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

All of the best OHaze grown by the Haze Bros was grown in Greenhouses, not outdoors as the SC season was just not long enough outdoors for Ohaze.
-SamS

Sam how long is the outdoor flowering season in santa cruz.
Ps in the case of early haze wat was added to get flowering so fast.

Originally Posted by Sam_Skunkman
Not quite true I had a pure OHaze I grew in Santa Cruz that was 10 weeks, Brian's Early Haze, it was my seeds and I gave Brian the plant he grew, I was there to see it grown, flowered and harvested and I smoked some, it was great.
-SamS

 

[TheDarkStorm]

so as soon as neville aquired haze seeds from sam he was an expert on what was pure an what was not ? dont make any sense at all ?lol how many haze seeds neville go through to find A an C anyone know?

Ther was 7...he had no knowledge of the line...so wat he was looking at the line with was through a breeders eyes....with Fh haze popping up this could be traced in evry plant..hazeA and hazeC wer a later generation an only half related if not a third..with hazeA probably being backcrosed back to Fh an being probably a generation closer to Fh than hazeC...this is why hazeC doubles up beter than hazeA..hazeC is probably a straight outcross to sum lumbo type..the hazeB was faster but still Fh could be detected in it...ect ect...alot of testing was done...even one male bred to itself to produce actual male an female seeds....nevilles haze was put together..nevil estimated that the two males were about 30% compatable...he was trying to get it to throw back into the line...quite some detail was given an he tried evry combination...wat ever Fh was made up of could be detected in evry haze...including clones sam later gave nevil...only they seemed to be even further outcrossed similar to omega haze.....if more seeds had popped he would have been able to see fully the development of the line an exactly what had been done