Question about hermaphroditic tendency

[oldmaninbc]

I found a hermaphrodite plant in my tent on this last grow, because of 2 hernias I was unable to get in my tent and move containers around and watch for problems. The hermi did seed some of my other 4 plants. When I harvested the other day I noticed 1 of the other plants had a few seeds but it also exhibited some hermi sacs, it is a different strain.

The plant that went full blown hermi was stressed considerably at germination but I decided to keep it because of seed cost. I am assuming this is what caused the hermi problem. The other hermi plant had no such issues; so what I am wondering is...can a hermi plant cause another plant to become hermi because of a cascading effect?

 

[mudballs]

You mean just being next to it? Or are you asking about the offspring?

 

[oldmaninbc]

You mean just being next to it? Or are you asking about the offspring

I wasn't sure how to say what I wanted to say. Old age and drugs

Yes, just by being next to it.

Can a non hermi plant be incited to become hermi because it was lightly seeded by a hermi plant?

 

[mudballs]

I wasn't sure how to say what I wanted to say. Old age and drugs

Yes, just by being next to it.

Can a non hermi plant be incited to become hermi because it was lightly seeded by a hermi plant?

No. The seeds produced may express hermaphrodite tendencies though

 

[igrowone]

interesting question, and the 'conventional' view is as mudball says
a plant's intersex expression is based on conditions it experiences
but has this been verified through careful trials?
I suspect not, and it is known that some plants make chemical messages that affect other plants
so maybe not impossible

 

[midwestkid]

my experiences suggest light leaks are the likely culprit.

 

[oldmaninbc]

interesting question, and the 'conventional' view is as mudball says
a plant's intersex expression is based on conditions it experiences
but has this been verified through careful trials?
I suspect not, and it is known that some plants make chemical messages that affect other plants
so maybe not impossible

it is known that some plants make chemical messages that affect other plants
so maybe not impossible

Chemical messages... that's along the lines I was wondering about.

I highly doubt it was do to a light leak, my tent is in a darkened room, then you have the darkness of the tent. I do casual light leak checks and in over 13 years of growing in this space light leaks have never happened.

I have to believe there is some other reason for the second plant showing hermi tendencies, the second plant was 1 of 2 of that strain with only one showing hermi.

Studies show plants communicate with one another. Possibly through chemical messengers or mycelium

 

[mudballs]

Yes, there are cues and signaling VOC's, volitile organic compounds, and GLV, green leaf volitiles. Floral and vegetative in origin. Most benefit the plant, but do not associate with intersex traits, i.e. trigger male sex organ production.
"Signaling molecules like salicylic acid (SA), jasmonic acid (JA), and γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) are involved in the regulation of plant development and responses to biotic and abiotic stresses"
There's a reason you can send in juvenille leaf samples and get a result back for M/F. It's because of how sex is determined and controlled..if you ever tried to reverse a fem by spraying, you know it takes a fair amount of signaling to get a plant to flip. Rodelization requires stressing...so I'll say it again...no, a hermi sitting next to a normal plant will not trigger other plants to hermi.
Edit:fkt up link removed

 

[oldmaninbc]

Yes, there are cues and signaling VOC's, volitile organic compounds, and GLV, green leaf volitiles. Floral and vegetative in origin. Most benefit the plant, but do not associate with intersex traits, i.e. trigger male sex organ production.
"Signaling molecules like salicylic acid (SA), jasmonic acid (JA), and γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) are involved in the regulation of plant development and responses to biotic and abiotic stresses"
There's a reason you can send in juvenille leaf samples and get a result back for M/F. It's because of how sex is determined and controlled..if you ever tried to reverse a fem by spraying, you know it takes a fair amount of signaling to get a plant to flip. Rodelization requires stressing...so I'll say it again...no, a hermi sitting next to a normal plant will not trigger other plants to hermi.
Edit:fkt up link removed

Ok, I have to lean in your direction, I have not seen any evidence to support sexual expression due to VOC.

I am still at a loss for a satisfying conclusion why the hermi in the 2nd plant. The first hermi had considerable stress at germination & sprouting, it germinated upside down and was dug out of peat puck and put into 4"square ctn. It was always behind the other 4 plants. Aside from that, there was no other complications. The grow went as expected. The 2nd plant to hermi was one of two but only one of them showed hermi.

 

[mudballs]

Some crosses just don't make stable offspring...you ever see lumpy awkward tops? ...unending pistil shooting as others turn orange and shrivel? ...these are all signs from a Punnet Square output something didn't mix well. I'm not trying to diss the breeder, or your growing...i don't think early stress can do it...it doesn't remember that stuff...like a kid getting ear pierced.

 

[igrowone]

Ok, I have to lean in your direction, I have not seen any evidence to support sexual expression due to VOC.

I am still at a loss for a satisfying conclusion why the hermi in the 2nd plant. The first hermi had considerable stress at germination & sprouting, it germinated upside down and was dug out of peat puck and put into 4"square ctn. It was always behind the other 4 plants. Aside from that, there was no other complications. The grow went as expected. The 2nd plant to hermi was one of two but only one of them showed hermi.

genetics is the usual culprit, I've been dabbling in the dark side
some plants are near bullet proof, no amount of stress will pop any roosters
and others will just herm with no provocation, they're doomed to herm
not sure of your seed provenance, but if they're from the same lot
if that's the case then seeing 1 herm raises the odds of seeing other herms in that seed lot

 

[oldmaninbc]

Some crosses just don't make stable offspring...you ever see lumpy awkward tops? ...unending pistil shooting as others turn orange and shrivel? ...these are all signs from a Punnet Square output something didn't mix well. I'm not trying to diss the breeder, or your growing...i don't think early stress can do it...it doesn't remember that stuff...like a kid getting ear pierced.

Just to show the general health of the plants.

 

[CharlesU Farley]

I found a hermaphrodite plant in my tent on this last grow, because of 2 hernias I was unable to get in my tent and move containers around and watch for problems. The hermi did seed some of my other 4 plants. When I harvested the other day I noticed 1 of the other plants had a few seeds but it also exhibited some hermi sacs, it is a different strain.

The plant that went full blown hermi was stressed considerably at germination but I decided to keep it because of seed cost. I am assuming this is what caused the hermi problem. The other hermi plant had no such issues; so what I am wondering is...can a hermi plant cause another plant to become hermi because of a cascading effect?

You've receive some great information in this thread. In my experience, it's genetics that is the driving force with hermies, not environmental conditions.

I've only worked Northern Lights for the past 20 plus years and in all that time, I've only had one branch of one plant go hermie on me. That was after a 3-day power outage with no light and 40° temps.

It actually produced 30-50 quite viable seeds and the resulting plants were damn good. For me, it was _awesome_ to plant seeds and be guaranteed they were going to be female, with a lot less muss and fuss than clones.

But I would never, ever use them in any kind of reproductive activities with cannabis. I think that's why hermaphroditic plants are so common these days, people utilizing chemicals to switch sex has consequences.

 

[mudballs]

Just to show the general health of the plants. View attachment 18987773 View attachment 18987772

What tuned me into hermi being created rather than grower error is when i grew an offspring from a long flowering sativa crossed with a short flowering polyhybrid...then it dawned on me. I didn't make it hermi, it was created in the allele recombination..the plant is getting both signals of long/short and bam!, hermi...good looking plants bud!

 

[flower~power]

Chemical messages... that's along the lines I was wondering about.

As long as it’s not plant Telekinesis causing the problem

 

[Marz]

More and more I believe in the genetic aspects when it comes to full hermie.

Plants that give a few seeds only suspect that they are suffering from some kind of stress.

Both happened to me on my bagseed last run.

 

[oldmaninbc]

What tuned me into hermi being created rather than grower error is when i grew an offspring from a long flowering sativa crossed with a short flowering polyhybrid...then it dawned on me. I didn't make it hermi, it was created in the allele recombination..the plant is getting both signals of long/short and bam!, hermi...good looking plants bud!

Do you think hermis are more common in todays hybrids in comparison to earlier generations of hybrids? Over the years I have seen some hermis but never like this last crop.

Will the seeds from this crop will be hermi?

 

[mudballs]

Do you think hermis are more common in todays hybrids in comparison to earlier generations of hybrids? Over the years I have seen some hermis but never like this last crop.

Will the seeds from this crop will be hermi?

Hmmm...i don't 'hear' a lot of hermi incidents. It is said it took significant effort to get landraces to adjust to indoor growing environment and not hermi and get us what we have today. There's plants that go full blown hermi, real whack things with pollen sacs and calyxs at every point. What you have sounds like you could still find stable genetics in offspring. Think punnet square possibilities, a few nanners isn't a death knell. But would require further work.

 

[oldmaninbc]

You've receive some great information in this thread. In my experience, it's genetics that is the driving force with hermies, not environmental conditions.

I've only worked Northern Lights for the past 20 plus years and in all that time, I've only had one branch of one plant go hermie on me. That was after a 3-day power outage with no light and 40° temps.

It actually produced 30-50 quite viable seeds and the resulting plants were damn good. For me, it was _awesome_ to plant seeds and be guaranteed they were going to be female, with a lot less muss and fuss than clones.

But I would never, ever use them in any kind of reproductive activities with cannabis. I think that's why hermaphroditic plants are so common these days, people utilizing chemicals to switch sex has consequences.

Wow, you must really like Northern Lights, it does have nice form and a quality effect. I know a few people who like NL and use it frequently. The only NL I have grown is one seed out of ten from Peak. Not really the best interpretation of it's potential. I was wondering if modern strains were more likely to be hermis.

Do you think the seeds from this grow will produce hermi seeds?

 

[oldmaninbc]

More and more I believe in the genetic aspects when it comes to full hermie.

Plants that give a few seeds only suspect that they are suffering from some kind of stress.

Both happened to me on my bagseed last run.

When you say bagseed, your suggesting the seeds are from an unknown source/strain?
Was it those seeds that produced hermis?