Question about commercial grows?

[TGT]

I am wondering something and it seems to confuse me greatly. I know a few people that do large commercial grows. Were talking one being 20 - 1000 watters and another 10 - 1000's. The smaller of the three seems to produce the most per 1000 watt bulb and he has 8 lights going. All three are not perpetual gardens and each one has a crop every three months. All three have been doing it for quite some time and there plants look great - but they only average 1 pound per 1000 watt light! The smaller set up of the three get's almost 1.5 pounds per 1000 watter - which is a little better. I always thought more light and a larger garden would yeild more weight per bulb. It doesn't seem to be the case here. My grows are usually 4 - 1000 watt bulbs and I get 2 pounds per light bone dry. It seems the smaller the garden the more efficient it gets.

Is this normal for large commercial growers to yeild less per watt, and if so why? It could be the fact they don't care about the plant and just the money it makes or they just plain don't know what they are doing. May be smaller growers love thir plants more and it shows? I thought it would be pretty close to impossible even for a novice with so much light available to pull off less than 2 pounds per bulb!

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I can see the reason behind it being lack of knowledge, but these guys have been doing it for years. Could it be there just plain incompetant?

TGT

 

[stihgnobevoli]

*warning opinions follow*

my opinion is that theyre about the $$$ and speed of getting the next crop to market. as a result they do it the fast way and take their 1lb per plant and move on. I dont know if you ever visited OG back before... but there were commercial and non commercial growers on there like this guy who were pulling over 2lbs a plant with less than 1000 watters. its in the nutes and growers skills/methods.

 

[TGT]

I think you might be right - thanks for the input. By the way, that woould have been a nice picture but the guy in the undies kind of runes it lol. Any other comments?

TGT

 

[Guest]

Damn TGT,all that light and they're just flowering seedplants?You need to turn them on to the joys of keeping that flower room full always 100% of the time

 

[atmosphere]

There is obviously some thing wrong in the growroom of the 20 -1000 watt grower .
There might be a lack of CO2 , cause you need a hell of a lot of air going through a room that big . Fresh air becomes a big issue in large grows .

but large grows can yield th esame as small grows per lamp, thats for sure.

 

[Guest]

I remember on OG a guy had about 10 600s going in a room,when he reduced it to 6 fixtures his yield was much better,I dont see this normally but remember it vividly.I try to stick with around 50W sq ft to flower with,bleaching and other problems can occur with too much light although I have to admit,its a rarity

 

[dubracer]

I remember on OG a guy had about 10 600s going in a room,when he reduced it to 6 fixtures his yield was much better,I dont see this normally but remember it vividly.I try to stick with around 50W sq ft to flower with,bleaching and other problems can occur with too much light although I have to admit,its a rarity

My 750 digital hps lamps bleach and burn within 1.5 feet of the light. I am pretty sure it is my hood. I will be testing out vertical lighting for myself soon to see if I can reduce this problem. It seems to be the reflection of the bulb on the hood, happens in a specific place on each light. Rather annoying and seems to happen more often during high P and K levels (aka flowering).

 

[NorCal]

my plants love the extra light i give em, never have i had a problem w/ bleaching
( I dont even know what that is)
but it might have something to do w/ the reason why once many people go commercial you def. notice a degradation in quality.
there certainly is much more to take care of and since its automated most the time the plants dont get the individual love and attention as w/ smaller ops.
most commercial heads i know are concerned with packing as much plants into as much space w/ as much light w/o causing heat problems.
theyre not the microgrowers who have to make up for their lack of space in being efficient.or that have been growing out of the same area for years trying to dial everything in in the meantime. most people when theyre satisfied w/ something they dont wanna play around w/ it anymore and just wanna make their money so they stop looking into ways to improve upon their techniques.

i know someone who used to have the nicest herb i had ever laid my eyes on, once he went on to 15-20 lights the quality definitely took a hit, the trim, the taste, everyhting was compromised. He does have alot more to go around but its not half as good as when he ran only 5-6 lights and produced the "super"

then you have the "groups" of people who are mass producing purple colored low odor low potency, very high yielding plants. they mainly work w/ certain strains strictly becuase they can get 2lbs off this bs dank or they can get 1lb off some real good dank on the same lights. in the end theyre gonna rock the bs plants becuase thats what most commercial peeps are about, the money..
I dont blame em either as theyre the ones taking the risks, bt i wouldnt exactly give them any of my strains to work with.....

also the larger the op, the less the person is likel to be around, you got 1000 plants going and your gone for a week,you go check on everything and maybe some plants didnt get watered or some were neglected somehow, if you dont catch it that week you might not catch it the next and by then the plant may be pretty messed up, if you have a few of these eventually its gonna mess w/ your yield. plus I ve never heard of a grower(esp. commercial) openly admitting to having any probs w/ his cycles (umm yeah some of the plants were underfed so thats why not all the nugs are uniform etc)

not knocking people w/ large grows just the ones who knowingly choose to manufacture and distribute product that they know doesnt have much of a medicinal value at all, strictly for the money. basically growing and sellling shitty herb,lots of it...

 

[Pops]

TGT, you don't say whether these are soil or hydro, but I suspect with a 3 month cycle that they are running hydro. There are a lot of variables to figure in. As Norcal stated, strain plays a big part. Most growers running soil with clones can get 1lb/ 1000w and get 6 crops a year, if they use 8 week strains.

You can run a shitty big-yielding strain and get higher yields than you would get running an elite low-yielding strain like O.G. Kush. However, the O.G. would bring far more at market. Some growers like Swerve can get almost as much per crop growing elites as other growers using shitty bigger yielding strains.

I am a soil grower using standard good-tasting strains, and I get 1lb/1000w. I may go to KBS to try to get 2/lb/1000w so that I can keep my plant count down. When security is at risk, you are far better to have a small grow getting 2lb/light than to have a big op. I am not a big commercial grower, but like all growers, I need to maximize my space,time and electricity. In the end, it all depends on whether the grower has his strain dialed in, the genetics he is using, and the amount of care he gives the plants. Someone with a 20,000w grow can't give a whole lot of attention to each plant.

 

[NorCal]

exactly, I dont see why in the world any commercial person would even waste their time w / soil
this in itself almost dq's the person from being considered commercial imho as the work involved in lugging around all that soil and mixing it is very labor intensive, shit i hate doing it for my 18 plant soil closet grow, also if you run the lower yieldiong stinkier strains you have the major concern of odor as opposed to running a low/no odor strain and getting 2 x as much, A commercial OG grower? I d love to meet him.....

 

[Guest 18340]

Nice crime fighters dude! LOL

 

[TGT]

Ballastman:
"Damn TGT,all that light and they're just flowering seedplants?You need to turn them on to the joys of keeping that flower room full always 100% of the time"

They are growing clones of AK47 and a Williams Wonder strain. I'm not quite sure why they don't keep the rooms full all the time like a perpetual garden. I'll have to ask. I have wondered the same thing. There are a lot of things I would change in their rooms, but you know how stubborn people can be. They don't want any input as they know it all and since they have been doing it for so long they can't possible take advice from me. Oh well, there thick head ways are just hurting their pocket book in the end.

Atmosphere:
"There is obviously some thing wrong in the grow room of the 20 -1000 watt grower .
There might be a lack of CO2, because you need a hell of a lot of air going through a room that big. Fresh air becomes a big issue in large grows ."

I think that is a big reason why their yields suffer so much. The heat in the room combined with not enough fresh air makes the buds airy and stunted. They don't use Co2 and venting is minimum to keep the smell contained. They use carbon scrubbers, but the ones they have are way too small for the rooms they are growing in. I suggested getting bigger carbon scrubbers and adding more ventilation to keep the heat down and improve the Co2 levels, but they just won't listen. They also should have their air cooled hoods done differently. I noticed leaks everywhere, but they know best.


Norcal:
"I know someone who used to have the nicest herb i had ever laid my eyes on, once he went on to 15-20 lights the quality definitely took a hit, the trim, the taste, everyhting was compromised. He does have alot more to go around but its not half as good as when he ran only 5-6 lights and produced the "super""

I grow the same clones they do and everyone says my pot is way better in taste and in potency, not to mention bud size. They seem to get all small little nuggets with a few large cola's while mine are always on the large side. Sometimes it's as though their strain is completely different than the ones I'm growing, but I know that is not the case.


Pops:
"TGT, you don't say whether these are soil or hydro, but I suspect with a 3 month cycle that they are running hydro. There are a lot of variables to figure in. As Norcal stated, strain plays a big part. Most growers running soil with clones can get 1lb/ 1000w and get 6 crops a year, if they use 8 week strains.

You can run a shitty big-yielding strain and get higher yields than you would get running an elite low-yielding strain like O.G. Kush. However, the O.G. would bring far more at market. Some growers like Swerve can get almost as much per crop growing elites as other growers using shitty bigger yielding strains."

They are all running soil and use Promix BX in 3.5 gallon buckets. There growing style is similar to each others as they all come from the same circle of friends. They usually grow the AK47 strain and it finishes budding in 6 weeks. I let it go 7 but they cut early to fit in more grows. This could be the reason their yields suffer partially as I get a lot of growth in the last week or so. I sometimes even leave it to 8 weeks, but get much stonier smoke, so I prefer 7.

In their defense, they are growing a kick ass strain and do take a slight hit on yield. They were using a Chronic strain and I believe last year a Power Plant strain, but quality suffered so they switched to the AK47 and now only yield about 1 pound per light. So it's true that genetics plays a big role in the amount possible.

Norcal:
"exactly, I don’t see why in the world any commercial person would even waste their time w / soil
this in itself almost dq's the person from being considered commercial imho as the work involved in lugging around all that soil and mixing it is very labor intensive, shit I hate doing it for my 18 plant soil closet grow, also if you run the lower yielding stinkier strains you have the major concern of odor as opposed to running a low/no odor strain and getting 2 x as much, A commercial OG grower? I d love to meet him....."

I believe most commercial grows are actually done in soil, at least the ones I have seen and heard of. I think they choose this method because it is cheaper to set up and much quicker to tear down and put up again in another location. I agree yield would probably be much better due to speedier veg and the soil lugging must be a pain, but it still has its benefits. I think if a commercial grow were long term, then hydro would probably be chosen. I could be wrong on this so please don't flame me, Let me know your opinion on the matter. They might do things more professional in your area.

Thank you all for the great info. I didn't think I would get so many responses. Anyone know of a commercial grow they can comment on? Thanks again!

TGT

 

[Verite]

I guess different people grow for different reasons. Personally myself I would be a pretty unhappy grower if I measured my worth off the amount each of my bulbs pulls in.

 

[JJScorpio]

I agree Verite. I quit caring a long time ago what I was getting per watt. That takes all the fun out of it. I do check what I got per grow, but that is so I know what plants to keep. After I jar it, I just bust out jars when needed, lol. Trying to get the most weight per watt keeps you growing certain strains that are big producers, but a lot of times are a lot less quality....

 

[aeric]

gpw yields tell me whether or not i've learned anything, cause I'm always trying to improve. Interestingly enough....gpw went from .95 to .85 when going from 400w to 1400w with clones, same setup, but it could've been something simple that was overlooked, I dunno.....

 

[NorCal]

the soil thing is crazy i would never even attempt that stuff for commercial, round here its ebb/flow tables and rockwool as thats the only way to go i think, just doing the reservoir thing and your done everythings automated no watering. imagine getting rid of all that soil!!!!!

 

[Fast Pine]

I respectfully disagree..Soil is just fine for commercial grows...To each his own..

Some guys kill it in soil...Some dont...I personaly love using soil less mixes instead of hydro...But Ive never used hydro

To get rid of all the soil..All one has to do is go buy a box of black trash baggs, and spend an hour or two loading and unloading...

You hydro guys have some bulky suspicious looking equipment to haul around too..


I agree that hydro is probably better for an indoor commercial grow...But soil can get close..I definantly wouldnt say that using soil is "crazy"....

Heres some of my indoor soil

 

[NorCal]

to each his own, i love soil but i only have a closet so its fine, I know a few peeps that run 5-6k 30 40 plants all organic w/soil, best herb around here.
that is alot of work, now im not lazy but honestly it is alot of work.
now commercial meaning 15+ lights and 300-400 sites is gonna be a prob id think...
BTW isnt a soilless mix considered hydro?

 

[NorCal]

and if your loading/ unloading stuff w/o a garage then that is bad in itself,nice garden there

 

[Guest]

Yes its a lot of work,no question about it.I couldnt work and do a 5K soil grow but crazy?I love it,plug and play may be for the hydro commercial grower but its not as fun as being a dirt farmer lol.I want to mist my domes several times daily,I enjoy transplanting and just about everything that has to do with dirt growing,I hate trimming like I guess we all do lol.I live to get my hands dirty anymore,its what I do.I'd so gladly charge 1/2 500 a quarter of high grade blockhead or other chronic strain if I could do this without threat of being caged with lunatics and be able to actually help people and contribute.I can do just fine with that.I gotta get out of here someday before something happens,where I live is not the place to be doing this.I have no guilt,my erb doesnt end up in the high schools and if it did,its not my wish but the result of todays prohibition.I lost my dad a few weeks ago,when I lose my mom I'm gone I think.I love it here,what a contradiction this state is,so beuatiful yet so deadly for people like me.The funny thing is I'd be the first person to help a deputy needing assistance,or chase a thief down,yet these folk can become my roomates one day in the blink of an eye.Sometimes I'm really scared