Pure Blend Pro Info

[amsterdame]

Hey there, TK, I'm not sure where my original thread went (organic convert needs help) but I wanted to let you know that the switch to organics (PBP) when I went to 12/12 has worked out beautifully. Kudos and thanks to you and the other fine members who helped me get there! I wanted to post some pics earlier this week to show some results, but there's a problem in doing that which hellinksi and I haven't been able to resolve yet.

In the meantime, I have been able to load those pics in my gallery, (just can't post em in a thread). So feel free to stop by there and take a look. There are pics of one of the NorthernBerries and two of the BogBubbles. Pic quality isn't the best due to cell phone camera, but you'll get a good sense of how the switch is going in the garden.

Peaceful growin!

A*dame

 

[phillykid]

Hey there TK

you said "I have reverted back to the original Pure Blend hydro formulas and the ammendments Cal-Mag, Liquid Karma, and Top Max as a bloom booster. I will also continue to use a little Silica Blast early to mid veg as well."

does this mean just the Original pure blend? Or do they make a specific pure blend hydro. Cause I have the original stuff and they say it's to be used as a supplement in junction with a hydroponic fomula so I thought there might be micro deficiencies or something? I'm also planning on using top max, LK, and I still got some cal mag left and some Fox farm Big bloom for a kinda later flowering addition. Notice any defs with the original?

Also I notice that the package of PB I have says 100% natural, the FF Big Bloom says this as well. The EJ is the only one out of the 3 that actually has the ORMI listing on it, is this just because they paid to have it on there and the FF and PB are also 100% organic but they just didn't want to pay to have it listed with ORMI?

Here's a link I found:
http://www.isserpr.com/omri_listing.htm
"“Although organic is defined by the U.S. Department of Agriculture as a product without toxic pesticides or fertilizers, bio-engineering or ionizing radiation,” he added, “regulations allow a product that is just 70 percent organic to be labeled as organic even though the other 30 percent could be anything. In order to be approved by OMRI, 100 percent of product ingredients must meet the organic standards.”"

peace

 

[Guest]

I am using the "Original" Pure Blend because it is 100% natural and the Pure Blend Pro was not as much so. I think they basically add "power plant", 'blast off" and "power flower" to the original reducing the inert nutes in the Pure Blend first and adding those three, you get Pure Blend Pro. I may be wrong but that's the way it was explained to me in laymens terms by the rep.

I think the "OMRI" certification is alot like an "ISO", it requires endless documentation and adhering to standards of production that may be cost prohibitive for some manufacturers. There are only a couple that have the "OMRI" certification.

I think the original is taking much less in the way of ammendments and the plants uptake rate seems to be much greater with less added.

Tex

 

[SuperToker]

TK, are all those ammendments really necessary? Or is some skimping or replacement okay? Right now i've running 10 gal res dwc @60ml pbp veg and 2 tsp of epsom. Is this a decent feeding for them? They are about 8" tall, and got some roots going good now. What else do I need to add to make it complete. The wallet is thin on this one, what should I be using?

 

[King]

What makes something organic? The carbon molecule? That's the impression I was always under.

I don't exactly buy this stuff about PBP being a mixture of PB and Power flower. Doesn't make sense to me. Being PBP uses different guanos than PB.

Let's look at epsom salt. It is 100% natural, yet try sticking you PPM meter in an epsom solution. Mine reads ERROR, which means its over 9999PPM at the manufacturers given dosage.

Now look at the phosphates in PBP. There's 4 different phosphates. PBP wouldn't be a stand alone without them. These come from minerals being mined. And like epsom salt, would cause you PPM to be high.

Am I totally off in my thinking here?

 

[phillykid]

TK
Oh, thanks, I was thinking that the pb would lack some micros because they say you can use it as a stand alone in soil but you use it to supplement in hydro but maybe the amendments you use take care of all the micros with that LK. So what amounts have you been using as a base line to see how they work in your system? Ebb flow right? What would you reccomend for dwc buckets, 5 gal, not recirculating? For early veg, late veg, early and late bloom? I'm stoked to try out that top max and dwc whohooo. my pal's gettin some seeds and i'll be ready to go.

The organic chemistry of organic doesn't work well when applied to this sense. Just think of it as naturally derived ingredients and don't lose sleep over it. If we use the organic chemistry definition of anything with a C molecule, well gasoline is just hydrocarbons, diamonds are compressed carbon, plastic is also hydrocarbon polymer etc.
thanks

 

[King]

philly.............uh yeah. I'm not talking about diamonds or gasoline or plastics. We're talking about organic nutrients. You're reply was of little help. Thanks

I had just gone through and listed all the carbonates and phosphates with links and definitions. To make a long story short, Internet Explorer shut down, and I lost it all. I will not do it again atleast right now. It took me too long, and I'm way too pissed off right now to do it all again.

Calmed down alittle so here goes. F**K, that was shitty. I'm gonna do it in sections now


Okay

Pure Blend
Seabird guano, bat guano, earthworm castings, fish meal, sea
kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), humic acid, fulvic acid, citric acid,
raw sugar cane, Agrimineral 72 silica clay extract

Pure Blend Pro
Fish meal, composted sea bird guano, sea kelp, spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, humic acid*, fulvic acid*, citric acid*, raw sugar cane*, Agrimineral 72 (silica clay extract)*, ami no acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.
*Non plant food ingredients

If PBP is PB with other ingredients where did the bat guano and earthworm castings go??????

Now we'll look at the carbonates and phosphates.

 

[Guest]

I couldn't get Pure Blend Pro to stand alone. I was using the same if not more of the ammendments that I do now. Liguid Karma and Cal-Mag minimum is what I used in conjunction with it to get any kind of balanced regime. Some Cal-Mag hog strains like my TW and the Grapefruit this round need or seem to benifit from a little hotter mix even up to 15-20ml/gal.

I'll get something down for ya Philly, let me think about for a bit, i'm blazed

Tex

 

[King]

Phosphate rock
http://www.wpi-inc.com/pci/rockphos.html
Rock Phosphate is a granulated soft and hard rock phosphate that is essential in building a biological soil. It acts as a catalyst in the soil, which in turn increases plant growth. Rock Phosphate also helps with overwintering.

Pacific Calcium's Rock Phosphate is 100% natural, and is listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute (OMRI) for use in production of organic food and fiber.

Potassium carbonate
http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/P/potascar.html
chemical compound, K2CO3, white, crystalline, deliquescent substance that forms a strongly alkaline water solution. It is available commercially as a white, granular powder commonly called potash, or pearl ash. It was originally obtained from wood ashes or from the residue left in pots after certain plants, e.g., kelp, were burned in them. It is prepared commercially chiefly by electrolysis of potassium chloride to form potassium hydroxide, which is then carbonated (e.g., by adding carbon dioxide gas). It is used in the manufacture of soft soaps and glass, for washing wool, and in the production of other potassium compounds.

 

[King]

Magnesium carbonate
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/carbonat/magnesit/magnesit.htmMagnesite does not ordinarily form good crystals, but can make up a substantial portion of some rock types. It forms commonly from the alteration of magnesium-rich rocks during low grade metamorphism while they are in contact with carbonate-rich solutions. Magnesite has the same crystal structure of calcite, hence its inclusion into the calcite mineral group. Many of the properties of magnesite are either identical or similar to those of calcite. However, the magnesium ion does not allow the carbonate ion (CO3) to interact as easily with cold acids, as the calcium ion does in calcite. This provides the best means of distinguishing magnesite from calcite. However, dolomite(MgCa(CO3)2) can be almost indistinguishable from magnesite.

Calcite, aka Calcium Carbonate
http://mineral.galleries.com/minerals/carbonat/calcite/calcite.htm
Which gets its name from "chalix" the Greek word for lime, is a most amazing and yet, most common mineral. It is one of the most common minerals on the face of the Earth, comprising about 4% by weight of the Earth's crust and is formed in many different geological environments. Calcite can form rocks of considerable mass and constitutes a significant part of all three major rock classification types. It forms oolitic, fossiliferous and massive limestones in sedimentary environments and even serves as the cements for many sandstones and shales. Limestone becomes marble from the heat and pressure of metamorphic events. Calcite is even a major component in the igneous rock called carbonatite and forms the major portion of many hydrothermal veins. Some of these rock types are composed of better than 99% calcite

 

[King]

Seems to me these all occur naturally. Maybe Botanicare isn't using natural potassium carbonate in PBP?

 

[Guest]

Got me, yall put way more thought into it than I do. Send them an email and maybe oone of the "scientist dudes" will respond. I did a while back but it was a more general question.

I watch my plants and tweak the nutes on the fly more than anything. I set out to try and stay as organic as I could and work it out as I went. I just got real comfortable with Botanicare stuff and how the plants reacted to different mixes, cycles, temps, etc..

I'm going to run Metanaturals sometime soon if I get up the courage. Changin a good thing is tough but I want a broader working knowledge of a couple different nutes out there now.

 

[King]

Cal-Mag
derived from calcium nitrate, magnesium nitrate, and iron edta. Defintely not organic after some reading. I'm having trouble finding plain definitions on these. But I am getting alot of chemical plants wanting to sell these chemicals. And I'm seeing alot of danger warnings about handling these chemicals.

I'm starting to rethink my use of Cal-Mag.

Both ingredients calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate are shown on a chemical list.
http://www.akpetrochem.com/chemical_list.htm

 

[Guest]

The vague descriptions is all part of the fun.hehe black magic and all

Maybe I'm remiss in my duties but thats way more info than found on it. I would also assume that bulk "chems", "ferts", or "nutes" are distributed through traditional channels. The fact that a chemical company reps a product shouldn't automatically be a red flag.

Tex

 

[phillykid]

What I meant to say is that you're using the organic chemistry definition of organic which isn't quite the same as the laymans term for organic.

Organic chemistry is the chemistry of compounds containing carbon. This includes stuff like a combustion reaction which is what burns gasoline to provide energy for your car. See, it doesn't neccessarily have to do with organic in the laymens sense of all natural. All I'm saying is this definition doesn't fit in with the definition that we want to use in growing cannabis.

Why does one want to use all natural products in growing?
Some because they are earth friendly, and some want to support companies that have a environmental conscience.
Some because they believe that there are synergistic effects in mother nature between the whole ecosystem which is rich with microorgansims. And this isn't creatable when using chemical fertilizers.

No matter the reason, the usage of organic is in the sense of creating an environment that somewhat mimics mother nature. And in hydro organics I think folks are trying to get the best out of both worlds, while compromising as little as possible. sorry if you thought it was a wise ass remark.

All those rock phosphates, calcitic lime, none of it contains carbon yet they're approved from ORMI because they came from natural sources.

Bottomline
A Chemists definition of organic or organic compounds, isn't the same as a farmers definition of it. I think this is what's confusing.

peace

 

[Guest]

My brain is going to explode....lol

Tex

 

[King]

lol with Tex,

I know the feeling.

I understand now philly.

 

[Guest]

Pure Blend
Seabird guano, bat guano, earthworm castings, fish meal, sea
kelp (ascophyllum nodosum), humic acid, fulvic acid, citric acid,
raw sugar cane, Agrimineral 72 silica clay extract

Pure Blend Pro
Fish meal, composted sea bird guano, sea kelp, spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, humic acid*, fulvic acid*, citric acid*, raw sugar cane*, Agrimineral 72 (silica clay extract)*, ami no acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.
*Non plant food ingredients

How much of the difference between the two formulas are the ingredients found in power plant and power flower?

Tex

 

[King]

Good question Tex. I can't answer, I don't know what the Power series is derived from.

 

[phillykid]

Now that I look at the difference in the list of ingredients in PBP and original,

spirulina, soybean protein extract, rock phosphate, potassium carbonate, magnesium carbonate, calcium carbonate, amino acids*, B-complex vitamins*, and select botanical plant extracts*.

now look at what's in cal mag plus:

CAL-MAG Plus ™ also contains iron, boron, zinc, manganese, molybdenum, copper, cobalt and iodine, beneficial vitamins, 20 essential amino acids and select botanical plant extracts to help in the production of fruits and vegetables in fruit and flower bearing plants.

seems like all the macros and micros would be there with either the original or pro formula in conjunction with cal mag. maybe the pro has more P and K in it cause of the carbonates but I think you could add a little dilute bloom booster to it if needed.

cause I got PB original and I ain't spending no 30 bucks (for qt of both PBPs) for some spirulina and soy protein!!!!
peace