Proper Decarboxylation of CBD

[Ringodoggie]

And, yet another....

decarboxylating the virgin C02 extracted hemp oil by heating to 140 - 150 °C for 10 - 18 hours to convert the CBDA to CBD.

https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2016004410A1/en

It is becoming crystal clear that we have been doing it incorrectly all these years. Every pharm that decarbs does it at higher temps and for WAY longer periods that we ever did.

I'm sure someone else is going to want to verify this with their own tests.

OK, I'm outta here. My pain is almost to where I can walk so I am headed to the gym for a couple hours. When I get back, we'll put on the gloves and get out the chloroform for some TLC tests.


EDIT:

Phase change has an effect on decarb properties. if it had been Decarb prior to extraction it would have taken less time as there would be more solid making space for the heated air to penetrate everything.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Well, I'm not happy. I don't even need to quantify this to see the contradiction. I'll head over to JustQuantify anyway but... I am going to run this whole gang of tests again for confirm or deny.

 

[Maple_Flail]

Well, I'm not happy. I don't even need to quantify this to see the contradiction. I'll head over to JustQuantify anyway but... I am going to run this whole gang of tests again for confirm or deny.

eh, what am i looking at? I'm not that good on the practicality of TLC but i know it has merits, just not clue how to interpret it

at high definition i can see slight variations to the separations but i don't have a clue what it means, I can see similarities in pairing but without familiarity and reference i couldn't even take a stab at it.

I'd be delighted if you could explain.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Short answer. it says the THC and CBD degrade as time and temperature increase.

Basically, the opposite of what the Duquenois and Beam tests showed.

I did the D/B tests again today using chloroform for the extraction agent instead of denatured alcohol and it showed mimimal to no degradation or increase of THC or CBD over the entire time and temp span.

Long answer...

I'll type till my drink is dry. LOL

It's hard for you to see the color differences like I do with the naked eye. The camera just looses something in the transition.

Anyway, each lane/column is a different sample. 4 samples with the center lane empty (explain that later).

Left to right 244/40, 240/90, 290/40, 290/120

Top 4 blobs (I'm not 100% on this order yet) from top CBC, CBD, THC and CBG. The orange ones "lower middle" are CBG.

I am trying to verify.

Main thing is... all of them seem to degrade as time and temp increase (past 240/40).

I am going to extract new samples and run it again tomorrow.

This is pretty neat, There's an online app JustQuantify.com that will allow you to upload a pic of your plates and it will detect and quantify the spots. Pretty neat.

 

[Maple_Flail]

Thank you for the explanation, I can understand why you are not happy, three different tests seemingly all coming out radically different.

Is the colour shift within each blob indicative of the conversion of acid to decarb'd amount? does this account for the mass loss in your calculations? if i'm incorrect on this, would it not be prudent to add something anayilize the acid forms presence? and or get a raw baseline to see where the raw unactivated bud sits in the balance to see what there is to measure for to have a theoretical bullseye on the target it hit? ie maximum theoretical conversion?

If this is too much, i can understand but i am fascinated that i can be along for the testing and figuring all this out

Edit: would acetone be available as an solvent option?

 

[Gray Wolf]

2 questions....

1. Are you including a 1:1 CBD/THC strain in that statement or always high THC, low CBD?

2. Have you ever tested for potency after decarbing to determine if your time and temp were actually optimal?

It would be great if someone with a 1:1 strain and the ability to run these tests would duplicate my tests to confirm or deny the results.

Includes Cannatonic at around 1:1. We have THC and CBD standards, but no THC-a or CBD-a standards.

The bubbling stops, indicating no further CO2 production. CBD was in the ballpark of expected for the strain and pheno.

 

[Ringodoggie]

Thanks GW. Your input is always welcome.

I was reading your Holy Oil thread and you seem to mostly obtain extract (BHO, rosin, whatever) and then decarb the extract.

You mentioned that you don't use an oven. You just wait on the bubbles to stop (mostly).

I also only use rosin and I decarb after extract. I use the oven and I have noticed the bubbling (and the ceasing of same). I would much prefer to do this in a beaker on a hotplate, if that's the way you did it and it works.

Question: Are you doing that on a hotplate? Double boiler?

Again, that's for all your contributions. Your posts have been huge in my cannabis learning curve.

 

[pokearound]

Interesting discussion folks. Temperatures and times for CBD decarbing is enjoyable to experiment with. Thanks to all for their participation.

Going to continue the discussion and not meaning to hijack the thread....

I am producing Glycerin Tincture with Charlotte's Web Flower, (20% CBD, 0.3% THC). One jar is cold soaking and will finish in July.

An additional two jars are being processed using heat.
Following GW's methods, I have now completed seven rounds bringing the flower glycerin mix to 160 degrees fahrenheit and then letting fully cool.

Now I am just about to embark on the final heat treatment and looking to follow GW's methods.......
One jar with hopes of making the tincture stimulative, I will heat at 250 degrees fahrenheit for 30 minutes.
A second jar, with hopes of making the tincture sedative, I will heat at 225 degrees fahrenheit for 60 minutes. That's my planned final phase.

One question, "bubbling"...... does this occur during the heating of glycerin?

Cheers Fine Folks

 

[cbdoil]

Howdy. Looks like I'm more than a few years late to the party here. Wondering, what was the final outcome of this? Mostly interested in best practices for time/temp to decarb hemp flower for maximum CBD. Thanks much!

 

[ost]

I was reading something about decarbing CBD the other day and it mentioned that, in order to convert CBDa to CBD, you need to heat it to 280F for 60 to 90 minutes.

Now, correct me if I'm wrong but at that temperature and for that duration, you are going to have converted just about all your THC to CBN.

So, if I want to make capsules that maximize the CBD and the THC, I can't.

I am either going to maximize the THC at 240F for 40 minutes and never even activate the CBD. Or, I am going to go higher and longer and activate the CBD but kill all my THC.

I would really like the effects of both in my pills but it's really more about the CBD. I have to wonder how much THC I'm going to lose.

I do have 2 more plates for my TLC kit so I could run some comparisons on 40 minutes and 90 minutes.

Any comments on this? Anyone else trying to maximize both THC and CBD in your edibles?

Thanks

so far i have only try'ed makin rso, very good stuff for me!

 

[experienced]

That sounds excessive. We decarboxylate at 121C/250F, and it takes only around 30 minutes for everything.

That sounds right to me. We make cookies from a variety (Mullaways low thc) and the temp to bake them (180C for 15 mins) brings out the thc. We get ripped as well as sleepy and pain free.

That sounds excessive. We decarboxylate at 121C/250F, and it takes only around 30 minutes for everything.

 

[Gray Wolf]

Sorry my site is currently down, so I can't share my decarboxylation articles with charts, but here are some that suggest that you are not fully decarboxylating at 180C for 15 minutes.

Have you heated your concentrate afterwards to see if any bubbles form?