ProMix HP problems - Pictures!

[CanadianHarvest]

Hi guys. Thanks so much for taking the time to post about my plants.

They are Texada time warp/ Northern lights from Peak BC seeds. Its not strictly an indoor strain. Like they grow in in Kewlona and stuff here in BC. ..... anyways. I think theres somthing wrong with my ladys.... They want to grow. they are trying to grow. but there is just somthing holding them back....... Ive only fed them 3 times in their life ( besides teas) because they just havent been seeming to be really able to handle them...

I just transplanted from 1 gal to 3 gals and i notice the root ball was really small for 2 months. like barley even pot bound :?

Anyways heres the specs.

800 watts -> 400 hps 400 Mh
promix HP with 5-10% worm casting
3 gal square pots
Advanced nutrients grow mico bloom - ph perfect
19/5 light cycle.
1-2 tsb dolmite lime per galon of soil.
Watering with ph tap water at 6.? ph. i use the General Hydro drops and I look for a yellow color.


So.... After that.. what do you think is wrong with my plants? Grow SUCKS! super slow. NEW GROWTH is the affected area. OLD LEAVES ARE FINE.... New growth is all yellow and veiny and skinny.

My stems feel like wood! like i couldnt even clone theses plants if i wanted to.

Petules ( stem directly of the leaves) are red/ purple

I flushed 2 weeks ago and have just been giving water.
---> i think its somthing to do with the Promix SOILESS mix. like becoming to acidic from the peat or not having enough nutes ect.

Please any help would be great!

 

[CanadianHarvest]

what ph do you guys run your peat/soiless mix at>

 

[Bmac1]

Im no pro but my 2 cents is that they are hungry. The last pic is hard to tell but could be a calcium deficiency.

I dont ph anything either, lol. I have always used promix HP and its the base of my current mix as well.

 

[CanadianHarvest]

Hey Bmac. I do agree on them being hungry. like Ive only added nutes to the water a total of 3 times!

But ponder this for a sec..... if your ph is off. you get the same affect... plants are hungry because they cant ABSORBE the food.

the only think making me weery of the under feeding. is that they look preety good and green. like if all my bottom leaves were yellowing and stuff,,,

But its only the NEW growth thats affected.

Does this add anything to your thoughts mate?

 

[Bmac1]

Thing is that promix has no nutes and its a relatively small amount of EWC that you have in the mix. Promix is meant to be fed with every watering. You also mention using PH perfect, doesnt that take away the need to PH? Prior to my current organic run, I have almost exclusively used GH 3 part morphing to using the Lucas formula and I fed with 98% of the time they got water.

The light green on the new tops is normal in my experience. It seems to always turn nice and green once they develop a bit more. Have you grown the variety before? Is it a notoriously slow vegger?

 

[CanadianHarvest]

Haha good point on the ph thing... I just know that it aims to PH PERFECT it for you to 5.8.... Great for hyro. I dont know if its too low for soiless tho?

And okay ill try a feeding. They reccomend 4ML/L for normal growing plants 2ML/L for small plants ( 3-4 sets of leaves) and 1ML/L for seedling.

Using the grow micro bloom. How much of each would you add for lets say 4L of water/ ( 1 gal) and at what ratio? more grow and micro than bloom??? or just a 1-1-1 ratio.

and haha this is gunna sound dumb. but how do i come back and view my threads? ( convo with you) like when i go to MY POSTS it only shows me posts in other peoples threads.

 

[Bmac1]

Hitting my posts should take you to all threads that you post in.

I always lean on the light feeding side. I would try a feed at half strength at first just to see if/how they react. If they perk up a bit, ramp it up a bit the next one. I always try to stop before I get burnt tips but if you notice burnt tips, be sure to back off the feeding a bit.

 

[CanadianHarvest]

hey Bmac what do you think when you hear this?

Let's see... looks like it's affecting new growth at the top first, so prolly implicates an immobile nute. Interveinal chlorosis, starting from the base of the leaf and working up/out towards the tip & leaf margins...

My first bet would be iron (Fe), but...

Got any pH readings?

Iron and manganese & zinc deficiencies often occur together, and are usually from a high pH.
__________________

 

[BigBozat]

Hi guys. Thanks so much for taking the time to post about my plants.

They are Texada time warp/ Northern lights from Peak BC seeds. Its not strictly an indoor strain. Like they grow in in Kewlona and stuff here in BC. ..... anyways. I think theres somthing wrong with my ladys.... They want to grow. they are trying to grow. but there is just somthing holding them back....... Ive only fed them 3 times in their life ( besides teas) because they just havent been seeming to be really able to handle them...

I just transplanted from 1 gal to 3 gals and i notice the root ball was really small for 2 months. like barley even pot bound :?

Anyways heres the specs.

800 watts -> 400 hps 400 Mh
promix HP with 5-10% worm casting
3 gal square pots
Advanced nutrients grow mico bloom - ph perfect
19/5 light cycle.
1-2 tsb dolmite lime per galon of soil.
Watering with ph tap water at 6.? ph. i use the General Hydro drops and I look for a yellow color.


So.... After that.. what do you think is wrong with my plants? Grow SUCKS! super slow. NEW GROWTH is the affected area. OLD LEAVES ARE FINE.... New growth is all yellow and veiny and skinny.

My stems feel like wood! like i couldnt even clone theses plants if i wanted to.

Petules ( stem directly of the leaves) are red/ purple

I flushed 2 weeks ago and have just been giving water.
---> i think its somthing to do with the Promix SOILESS mix. like becoming to acidic from the peat or not having enough nutes ect.

Please any help would be great!
[URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60671&pictureid=1425455&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60671&pictureid=1425456&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60671&pictureid=1425458&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60671&pictureid=1425457&thumb=1]View Image[/url] [URL=https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=60671&pictureid=1425459&thumb=1]View Image[/url]

See my reply at https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6917306&postcount=547

You gave lots more info here, so I'll amend that reply to say that with all the symptoms mentioned (affecting new growth, interveinal chlorosis, woody stems, purple/red petioles/stems, lack of growth, weak root formation, etc), may well be multiple issues/defs...

Still, I'd start with an iron supplementation...

 

[CanadianHarvest]

blackstrap molassase? does that count as an iron supplement?

if not what do your reccomend the best way for me to get these girls iron is?

 

[BigBozat]

blackstrap molassase? does that count as an iron supplement?

if not what do your reccomend the best way for me to get these girls iron is?

Well, yeah, it does... 'tho I was thinking more along the lines of a foliar spray with chelated iron... I don't have particular brand rec, so just google it (or ask your local hydro shop guy)...

On the other thread, you mentioned some things about the pH of your inputs... but what about the runoff? That's where it's really at...
Given the pHs of your inputs, and the fact that your sphagnum tends to acidify over time, it's not likely that it's pH causing an iron def (iron actually becomes more available at lower pHs)... may be a more complicated lockout situation where excesses of some other nute (like too much P) is affecting Fe availability... all of which makes me think maybe something more along the lines of a foliar of, say, Earth Juice Microblast?

:edit:
Don't feed the iron with other fertilizers/nutes, as it can react & get bound up (not an issue w/ the EJ Microblast, which has the advantage of having lota other micro/trace elements, if it's not just Fe)

 

[CanadianHarvest]

Well, yeah, it does... 'tho I was thinking more along the lines of a foliar spray with chelated iron... I don't have particular brand rec, so just google it (or ask your local hydro shop guy)...

On the other thread, you mentioned some things about the pH of your inputs... but what about the runoff? That's where it's really at...
Given the pHs of your inputs, and the fact that your sphagnum tends to acidify over time, it's not likely that it's pH causing an iron def (iron actually becomes more available at lower pHs)... may be a more complicated lockout situation where excesses of some other nute (like too much P) is affecting Fe availability... all of which makes me think maybe something more along the lines of a foliar of, say, Earth Juice Microblast?

:edit:
Don't feed the iron with other fertilizers/nutes, as it can react & get bound up (not an issue w/ the EJ Microblast, which has the advantage of having lota other micro/trace elements, if it's not just Fe)

Thanks alot for your thoughtful input. As for runoff ph. here the kicker. its always the same as what i put in. i put in 7 it ll come out 7 i put in 5.8 it comes out 5.8.

So that makes me think your statment on the more complicated lockout situation is correct. i did actually add extra BLOOM of the advanced nute set when i transplanted cuz i saw the under developed roots and i know that they use the bloom nutes more than nitrogren to grow roots.

So what are we thinking> maybe a flush? Im just worried becasuse they havent even come close to filing up their 3 gal pots... so im worried my soil would stay wet for like a week.

*** another think is... i water with minimal run off. like make a solo cup worth. not even. and since i transplanted 2 weeks ago. they have had ZERO run off. but they have only have had 1 mild feed. so i dont know what there would be to have to 'Run off"

ahaha that NO RUNOFF thing might change your thinking a bit.. Any new ideas?

thanks so much

 

[BigBozat]

Thanks alot for your thoughtful input. As for runoff ph. here the kicker. its always the same as what i put in. i put in 7 it ll come out 7 i put in 5.8 it comes out 5.8.

So that makes me think your statment on the more complicated lockout situation is correct. i did actually add extra BLOOM of the advanced nute set when i transplanted cuz i saw the under developed roots and i know that they use the bloom nutes more than nitrogren to grow roots.

So what are we thinking> maybe a flush? Im just worried becasuse they havent even come close to filing up their 3 gal pots... so im worried my soil would stay wet for like a week.

*** another think is... i water with minimal run off. like make a solo cup worth. not even. and since i transplanted 2 weeks ago. they have had ZERO run off. but they have only have had 1 mild feed. so i dont know what there would be to have to 'Run off"

ahaha that NO RUNOFF thing might change your thinking a bit.. Any new ideas?

thanks so much

YW... but don't thank me yet, as I'm not sure it's diagnosed yet...

Bloom nutes to make *roots* grow?
That doesn't make any sense to me... but, then again, I don't use hydro nutes, so WTF do I know? If you're going the hydro nute route, I woulda thought one of AN's 'Root Mass Expanders Tribe' would have been the way to go to remedy weak formation... not Bloom formula. (FWIW, I think AN is full of shit/hype, way overpriced, and generally not suitable for soil... but I'm not a hydro guy & YMMV)

Definitely NOT thinking flush... it's nute def, not nute burn/excess, and flushing is only going to further leach out nutes...

No runoff? At all? Sounds like your soil holds too much water/doesn't drain well/not enough oxygen, maybe suffocating roots? If flushing leaves the substrate waterlogged for a week, as you fear, your soil is definitely too much WHC (water-holding capacity) and too little AFP (air-filled porosity)...

Long story made short... still thinking iron def... 'tho what's causing the Fe def is still ???... many things can contribute to Fe def...

So, I'm still at trying a foliar of chelated iron or a more broad-spectrum micro/trace nute like EJ Microblast.

 

[CanadianHarvest]

have you had any luck with the General Organics Bio Thrive grow formula. I do have a bottom of that kicking around. its like 1.5 yrs old tho

i also have the Black gold liquid humic acids. and Bio marine Cold Processed squid.

any of these would you suggest to add>

 

[CanadianHarvest]

and molassase should i use it during veg? and if so and how offen?

 

[BigBozat]

have you had any luck with the General Organics Bio Thrive grow formula. I do have a bottom of that kicking around. its like 1.5 yrs old tho

i also have the Black gold liquid humic acids. and Bio marine Cold Processed squid.

any of these would you suggest to add>

IDK if this addressed to me, but I'll answer anyway (too much NOS in me to go to sleep, lol)...

Like I said, I'm not a hydro guy, so I don't run hydro nutes generally (even GO's Bio stuff) and so don't have any luck one way or another with 'em.

That said, the GO stuff may be better suited for soil than the AN stuff (nutes that self-adjust to 5 ~ 5.5 pH doesn't sound like a good thing to me in soil).

Of the three you cite, only the BioThrive Grow has any iron in it.
But, if the iron def is due to excess P, then BioThrive Grow prolly won't work as an iron fix since it's iron content is low and it's P = 3% .

The humic acids are ... but don't address iron def...

Again, I'm still at chelated liquid iron applied as a foliar spray, which I suspect will give you an answer within 24~48 hours (if it starts mitigating symptoms w/i a couple days, iron def confirmed; if not, move on to the next suspect)...

Maxicrop has a liquid seaweed product that has 2% chelated iron (MaxiCrop also used to have the PGR triacontanol in it, but I if they still do or if any is in the +iron product; in my book, tria is a +). EJ MicroBlast also has kelp/seaweed, but its iron content is only 0.10%.

Kelp/seaweed tends to have lots of auxins (depending on how its processed), and a high ratio of auxins to cytokinins will encourage root formation & adventitious root growth, so that may be the best route.

 

[thegambler]

Pro-mix should be run between 6.3-6.5 pH. Your pH is too low I'm guessing. Buy a pH meter......

I think pH perfect isn't so perfect after all.

 

[CanadianHarvest]

Pro-mix should be run between 6.3-6.5 pH. Your pH is too low I'm guessing. Buy a pH meter......

I think pH perfect isn't so perfect after all.

Im watering with ph around there. yellow green on the PH DROPS is 6.5

and ive added 1tsb of dolmite lime to my soil. so should that help buffer if my ph was swinging slightly low>

 

[CanadianHarvest]

IDK if this addressed to me, but I'll answer anyway (too much NOS in me to go to sleep, lol)...

Like I said, I'm not a hydro guy, so I don't run hydro nutes generally (even GO's Bio stuff) and so don't have any luck one way or another with 'em.

That said, the GO stuff may be better suited for soil than the AN stuff (nutes that self-adjust to 5 ~ 5.5 pH doesn't sound like a good thing to me in soil).

Of the three you cite, only the BioThrive Grow has any iron in it.
But, if the iron def is due to excess P, then BioThrive Grow prolly won't work as an iron fix since it's iron content is low and it's P = 3% .

The humic acids are ... but don't address iron def...

Again, I'm still at chelated liquid iron applied as a foliar spray, which I suspect will give you an answer within 24~48 hours (if it starts mitigating symptoms w/i a couple days, iron def confirmed; if not, move on to the next suspect)...

Maxicrop has a liquid seaweed product that has 2% chelated iron (MaxiCrop also used to have the PGR triacontanol in it, but I if they still do or if any is in the +iron product; in my book, tria is a +). EJ MicroBlast also has kelp/seaweed, but its iron content is only 0.10%.

Kelp/seaweed tends to have lots of auxins (depending on how its processed), and a high ratio of auxins to cytokinins will encourage root formation & adventitious root growth, so that may be the best route.

What do you reccomend to do if a def do to excess P. i believe this it was it is.

 

[BigBozat]

and molassase should i use it during veg? and if so and how offen?

Yes you can use molasses during veg...
I feed molasses in various ways thru out the course of the grow (actually, I mix it into my soil mix from the outset, as well as in teas for drenches from veg thru flower [until the last couple weeks, anyway])...

But, I'm actually feeding the soil - or more precisely, the soil biota/microbes, which in turn, help feed the plants - and not really trying to feed it to the plant directly... which is kinda a different route than what you're doing (essentially, you're treating your substrate as if it were just another hydro medium designed merely to hold the nutes for the roots to feed on directly; but that's not really how soil really works & the hydro nutes you're using aren't very compatible with the soil biota)

Earlier you mentioned you had fed some teas... so, are you saying you don't have molasses in your teas?

How much & how often?
1 tsp per gal of water
Every other watering