Preserving St. Vincent genetics

[romanoweed]

I see this is a seriously good Line. Keep it alive , very good

 

[Felice]

I see this is a seriously good Line. Keep it alive , very good

Hey Romano, what makes you think that? Curious to hear

Cheers mate!
Felix

 

[FletchF.Fletch]

Good Luck. Let how they express themselves help you decide whether to continue breeding the line. If you can find sexually stable (or close to) individuals, proceed. If not, scrap it. You don't want rogue pollination to affect your other projects, especially from unstable/hermaphroditic plants.

 

[Felice]

Good Luck. Let how they express themselves help you decide whether to continue breeding the line. If you can find sexually stable (or close to) individuals, proceed. If not, scrap it. You don't want rogue pollination to affect your other projects, especially from unstable/hermaphroditic plants.

Exactly, that's the plan! Most of the time I have different plants on the balcony etc. and really can't have hermie pollen flying around.
I guess in c. 3 weeks I should know better if it's worth proceeding or focusing on the next run.
Luck I'll need, thanks for that!


Here a sunset picture from just now, under the red EOD lightstrip:

 

[romanoweed]

.

 

[acespicoli]

nice to see you doing this, im along for this grow thx for sharing

 

[Felice]

@romanoweed: cheers for the detailed response mate! jk!

@acespicoli: thanks for joining!

Just watered again, added a bit of Cal-Mag as well.

Have a nice week fellas!

 

[romanoweed]

the Detailed response i accidently put into here. Took it out again, cause it wrote it for the general preservation Thread . If you need it again, you should find it there.

I think its a Good Line, simply cause its look.

It looks like the old stuff, but not like a particullar Feature that i can pinpoint you at, just the overall Look.

 

[titoon29]

Hi Felice,

I had the chance to get to smoke some of those genetics, and sometimes found some amazing high within those St Vincent/Carribean lines (you can check the thread in my sig). Looks like you are onto something !

A few years back, Sonic Seeds (Ganja Baba on IC) did work on those kind of genetics in St lucia. It is mentionned in "the potcast" episode with banana man.

And Thread here https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=89901

All the best to you, you ll need some courage - hermies and extreme flowering time - but definetly rewarding !

 

[Felice]

@Romano: okay, got it! Glad you like the look - like it too. Cheers mate

@titoon29:
Thanks a lot for the tip, just browsed through the St. Lucia thread, and also your Caribbean reports. Some parts of these 13 yrs old smoke reports remind me of toking the St. Vincent in Bequia
Thanks for the wishes, hope I find some manageable phenos

 

[chilliwilli]

Oh man st lucia was together with cambodean the best landrace i smoked so far. In st lucia it was also the smallest seeds i saw more needle head size than real seed size.

 

[Felice]

Seed size is definitely an interesting topic! The original seeds I took from Bequia were also all rather small, the self-pollinated ones now are more normal in size, but the big good-looking ones did not open - only the smaller a bit unripe looking ones sprouted.
The St. Vincent hermie plant spreaded some pollen also on a ACE PCK and DP Strawberry Cough - second of which giving really huge seeds, have never seen seeds of that size before!
In case this run here is not leading to stable plants, I will eventually sprout some of the PCKxCaribbean and SCxCaribbean

 

[romanoweed]

If youre interested in stable Plants, why not finish the reproduction to save it for future. Then get something very similar Genetical wise that you know is Stable.

I imediatly think on Snowhighs Panama Red , or Panama Black (wich is Panama x Purple haze . The purple Haze possibly beeing that Columbian only oldtimers Haze) .

Those are two good Lines, old Genetics, wonderfull. Should be close related Genetic due to proximity.
I just really hope you dont loose the pure St Wincent, and if stable males is your wish, im shure you could become happyer outcrossing to these Lines, IF a good Carribean Vibe is also your Wish.
(i dont know if those named lines are stable, but snowhigh is your man for many middleamerican Gentics, im shure some stable middleamerican Lines, but my tip for those two Lines stays.. )

After that stabilisation outcoss, you can still outcros to your Indica of choice but keep your St vincent separate.

Or why not just keeep it Hermie, just you know many many people love such genetics (and even many more dont even know how good the old Satties were and think yore making up Stories).

Im shure even with a hermie, you would warm many Peoples Hearts, and i wont blame your oldschool Weed.

In therms of Effects, the hermie Phenos of a Line are same good or even better some say.
And the reason why they herm at your home is often cause they are stressed by your unnative Growconditions. So, they would possibly not herm grown in St Wincent, or far less. So youre one step changing something that in a Legal Future in St Vincent would be missed. namely a healthy rich genetic without too much change to its Genetic.

Many reasons to not do any fast moves and instead keep it pure, reproduce it with all the hermies, from then on you can make any other Step you want. Each at the time.

(im shure you know this all yourselve, but just in case )

 

[Felice]

If youre interested in stable Plants, why not finish the reproduction to save it for future. Then get something very similar Genetical wise that you know is Stable.

.....

Many reasons to not do any fast moves and instead keep it pure, reproduce it with all the hermies, from then on you can make any other Step you want. Each at the time.

(im shure you know this all yourselve, but just in case )

Hey Romano, thanks for the ideas, really appreciate hearing opinions of experienced growers/breeders.

For now, I want to do as you say and take each step at a time. This run now can be seen as a bottomline analysis.
It's the first time I grow this genetics methodically, biggest for me possible batch, indoors (controlled environment), and I'm trying to collect as much data as possible during my weekly check-ups.

Maybe I get lucky and find some "real males and females" (even if the girls show a banana here and there) - then: great first step

But, if in the next weeks it becomes apparent that the hermaphroditism is deeply rooted and none of the plants is "real male / real female" - then I will consider the following next steps, depending on if some of the plants seem worthy even though:
a) reproduce the most favourable hermie plants to keep the line pure
b) stop the run and restart at a later point with more favourable conditions (more space, even bigger batch, etc.)
c) stop the run and restart together with a stable central/south-american Sativa (have ACE Honduras and Tikal in my seed stash, which should both complement it rather nicely)

Either way can work - seeds I have quite a few left...

I'm sure you're right and hermie landrace plants may be desirable as well, but to be honest I would prefer not having to worry about secret pollen spreaders in the next seasons.

Long story short, it all depends ....
Hopefully they are not overly testing my patience ;-)

Cheers, Felice

 

[Felice]

@romanoweed
Thanks for the tips via PM, mate! Unfortunately cannot reply there yet, need to have 50 posts first....

 

[Felice]

Repotting update

Repotting update

Hi fellas,

quick update:

Unfortunately I could only pick-up 5 instead of the ordered 15 pots today, but anyways I decided to repot the St. Vincents - the shoes were definitely getting too small.

At the same time I culled out the first 9 plants, #2, 4, 8, 9, 12, 17, 18, 22, and 25 had to go.
Most of them I had picked as they were focusing on vertical growth, weak thin stems, long internodal gaps, in general the structurally weaker plants of the bunch. No worries, I also kept some of the lanky long ones, the selection was made so that I have a balanced amount of all so-far visible phenos left.

So, my favorite ones moved in the 5 pots, 11 others in 1l Tetra Paks, and 5 had to remain in the small pots.

#3, the widest leaf plant used to be very squat with short internodal gaps, but has done a proper stretch in the last 3 days and seems now very sativa, just with wide leaf and thick stem. Curious to see where this one is going...

While repotting I realized 8 plants had considerably stronger roots than the others, all but one of the wide leaf plants, but also one of the medium leaf and 3 of the narrow leaf plants.

Also something very interesting to me: 3 plants have the new branches coming out a bit over the actual axilla, between 3 to 5mm higher, have never seen that before:

 

[OnlyPureSativas]

Hello everyone,

Already posted a question in the ACE seeds sub-area, but I guess this is a better “real” first post ?

I would like to let you participate in my little project here, trying to preserve a Caribbean landrace, supposedly from the island of St. Vincent.


Some story around:
Years back I was on vacation with my parents, brother and girlfriend on an island called Bequia. A small place, almost nothing happens here, somewhere in the Caribbean. At the beach I met a very kind man, laidback vibes, that had this great spicy smelling sativa bud “growing in the mountains of St. Vincent”, as he said. The high was very strong, psychoactive but still very clear somehow. Completely different to all that I was used to (grew some strains over the years, but mostly outdoors central Europe, so not too much experience with tropical sativas yet). This time was the first and only time I actually smoked with my father. He still keeps telling his friends about this evening “…and suddenly I saw everything clear, as clear as never…” ahah :-D

Anyways, the weed was seeded so I took home around 10 seeds. Having moved to Southern Europe in the meantime, I was quite active in balcony growing.


Only 2 seeds popped, but grew with incredible vigor, I had to cut them over and over again to keep them at bay, but in the end, I decided to just keep 1 (both seemed female at that point - lots of airy leafy buds). I think they did not like the excessive topping, and the remaining plant started showing more and more bananas. I tried to take them, but as the plant did not seem to finish anyways, I might have lost motivation… – and harvested a handful of seeds just before Christmas.

Now, I somehow got ambitious to get into breeding, and wanted to start this by trying to create a stable landrace seed line out of these hermie seeds. I know the chances are not great, but I also see it as an opportunity to test my new indoor equipment before I get on with other breeding projects.


Anyways, on 21/01/21 I put 35 seeds to germinate, and on 24/01/21 another 10 seeds
By 27/01/21 I had 30 sprouts in individual 0.25l containers under 11/13 LED sun. Probably I would get a few more sprouts if waited some days longer, but 30 I decided was a good batch to start with, and space-wise anyways the maximum.

Day 4 (30/01/21) – inventory: seems like 3 phenotypes: 13x lanky and thin leaves; 14x medium and thin l.; 3x robust and wide leaves; overall most plants with green stem, some with darker reddish stem. See first picture.

View Image

Day 11 (06/02/21) – 1st update: separated the plants by 4 types, but the more I think about it, I guess #3 and #4 are probably the same phenotype:

View Image

View Image

- 3x #1 most indica structure, wide leaves: 1x dark stem, 2x thicker stem
- 4x #2 medium indica-sativa structure: 2x dark stem, 1x thicker stem
- 11x #3 sativa structure: 3x dark stem, 2x thicker stem
- 12x #4 most sativa structure: 3x dark stem, 1x thicker stem

View Image

View Image

The coloration of stems and leave shape and also thickness of stem seems to be relatively unrelated. There are more dark stems being thicker as greens, but e.g. the only “very thick stem” marker for now is on a fully green plant. Anyways, it’s just the start, I’m sure differences will become more apparent in the coming weeks.


I plan to keep them in the small pots as long as possible, c. 2 more weeks I guess, then do a first pre-selection, put the remaining 16-20 plants in bigger (still small) pots and hope to be able to find some sexually stable plants around week 5-6.

If all seem female I know what’s up… Then this report will end there. Fingers crossed ?


Have a nice Sunday,
Felice

Hi

Are you growing these very far from other cannabis? Pollen contamination is a huge problem for seed breeders, i dont consider anything pure unless I get the seeds from source, of course the source must be pure. This is a precious cultivar please dont ruin it by selective breeding, or worse, pollen comtamination. If you do want to do some selective breeding, please have a line that is open pollinated

Thanks

 

[Felice]

Weekly update, 20-Feb-21

Weekly update, 20-Feb-21

Hi all,

time for the weekly check-up and update.
The last 2 plants moved into the taller pots (#13 and #14), also I culled out 3 more plants (#19, 21, 24) - now I have 18 left for which I have space until clear sex identification.
They received some first very light organic feeding, and pots were weighted wet (550gr the smaller 1l Tetra Paks, and 950gr the tall black pots), to see how the consumption evolves.

Here an overview:

The status-quo, you'll see I tried to pick an equal amount of all expressions:

 

[Felice]

And here the 3 main phenos:

Wide leaves, columnar, but very Sativa stretch:

Medium leaves, compact structure, some with green some with dark stems:

Narrow leaves, more Sativa, lanky and more side branches:

Also, #7 shows some first white hairs already, but so far that's the only one.


Happy weekend!

Felice

 

[TheDarkStorm]

If youre interested in stable Plants, why not finish the reproduction to save it for future. Then get something very similar Genetical wise that you know is Stable.

I imediatly think on Snowhighs Panama Red , or Panama Black (wich is Panama x Purple haze . The purple Haze possibly beeing that Columbian only oldtimers Haze) .

Those are two good Lines, old Genetics, wonderfull. Should be close related Genetic due to proximity.
I just really hope you dont loose the pure St Wincent, and if stable males is your wish, im shure you could become happyer outcrossing to these Lines, IF a good Carribean Vibe is also your Wish.
(i dont know if those named lines are stable, but snowhigh is your man for many middleamerican Gentics, im shure some stable middleamerican Lines, but my tip for those two Lines stays.. )

After that stabilisation outcoss, you can still outcros to your Indica of choice but keep your St vincent separate.

Or why not just keeep it Hermie, just you know many many people love such genetics (and even many more dont even know how good the old Satties were and think yore making up Stories).

Im shure even with a hermie, you would warm many Peoples Hearts, and i wont blame your oldschool Weed.

In therms of Effects, the hermie Phenos of a Line are same good or even better some say.
And the reason why they herm at your home is often cause they are stressed by your unnative Growconditions. So, they would possibly not herm grown in St Wincent, or far less. So youre one step changing something that in a Legal Future in St Vincent would be missed. namely a healthy rich genetic without too much change to its Genetic.

Many reasons to not do any fast moves and instead keep it pure, reproduce it with all the hermies, from then on you can make any other Step you want. Each at the time.

(im shure you know this all yourselve, but just in case )

Snowhighs purple haze is f3 nevils haze x purple thai.....im sure that f3 nevils haze is used to stabalize quite afew of his strains.