Gamma Goblin
Member
Wading through the crap I found some interesting discussions before the thread was locked. I shall quote some of the last posts and hope we can continue civilly.
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Preservation vs Creating v2
- Thread starter Gamma Goblin
- Start date
Gamma Goblin
Member
Bacchus
It would be nice to get a commercial seed breeder's opinion on this topic. I do think that the finicial interest of the commerical seed breeder actually works against the preservation goal.
If one takes a land based strain and uses a large population to improve the strain is that preservation?
It would be nice to get a commercial seed breeder's opinion on this topic. I do think that the finicial interest of the commerical seed breeder actually works against the preservation goal.
If one takes a land based strain and uses a large population to improve the strain is that preservation?
Gamma Goblin
Member
Zamalito
Good point bacchus. A good example is all of the old hash samples contained high cbd levels but none of the modern indica and dutch afghan lines have noticeable cbd levels. In fact neville's haze probably has more cbd than afghani #1. Cbd is very important to the medicinal effects of cannabis and to making hashish with a high resembling the original hashish varieties. The intent was to improve the indicas and make them stronger, and they did. But the improvement is questionable.
Good point bacchus. A good example is all of the old hash samples contained high cbd levels but none of the modern indica and dutch afghan lines have noticeable cbd levels. In fact neville's haze probably has more cbd than afghani #1. Cbd is very important to the medicinal effects of cannabis and to making hashish with a high resembling the original hashish varieties. The intent was to improve the indicas and make them stronger, and they did. But the improvement is questionable.
Gamma Goblin
Member
Motaco
who is "juice"? who got banned?
is that cosmics other handle or something? did I just miss it or something?
anyway I don't care honestly.
But I'm an argumentative rambling motherfucker so I'm just going to drop my .02 in here and not come back.
I personally am offended by a few things in this thread. first off we are not all breeders. I'm not a breeder sorry. I dropped out of highschool much less taking a botany class in college. But honestly a botany class teaching me how to breed wouldn't do nothing. I'm not shantibaba I don't start with a bajillion seeds to make parents. I work with what I got, select the best and reject the rest and breed. I pick my best couple females, and a couple nice males and they gangbang. All the breeding knowledge in the world isn't going to change that I select the best and reject the rest. Sorry I don't live up to your expectations of breeders and conservationists. I got a couple oaxacas and hawaiians and I'm doing what I can to work with them and thats all I can do you know.
Next I want to mention that there is nothing wrong with not being a botanist. since the dawn of the cannabis plant it hasn't been botanists making weed what it is its been peronal growers doing exactly what I said. select the best and reject the rest. its been good enough for humanity since BC and its good enough for me now. Saying shit like weed will turn back into hemp from acclimating just pisses me off.
next you need to understand that all weed is bagseed. ALL OF IT. every strain you've ever smoked at some point was taken by a grower out of his sack and bred with. about the most hypocritical thing you can do is knock a bagseed grower when you are smoking the product of someone like the person your laughing at who took the bagseed and worked it.
next the commercial hate gets me quite pissed. whether seeds or weed NOBODY has any right to knock another persons hustle in what we are all tied into. don't get me wrong there is words to be said about 6000 dollar lbs and fifteen dollars per pot seed. But I'm talking about just the average growers and breeders.
You know I'm not even growing right now much less selling but I get quite angry at half assed assumptions that you grow weed to get rich and you don't care what your selling blah blah. I used to sell weed because I love growing weed, and giving it to people that can't find it. I truly feel for those with empty pipes if you've ever been dry you know that shit sucks. There simply isn't enough weed for all the smokers and weed is a gift from god to the labor class people. They are entitled to it. and it takes dedicated growers and sellers to do it. This isn't a perfect world and despite alot of people apparently not even being able to grasp the concept of it NOT EVERYONE CAN GROW WEED. and its not a good idea for everyone to grow weed. If you smoke a half ounce per month and aren't poor I have no idea why you would put your wife and childrens lives and your freedom on the line growing weed in your house over 2 grand of weed a year. Whether you want to see it or not growers and dealers have their place in the scheme of things too.
who is "juice"? who got banned?
is that cosmics other handle or something? did I just miss it or something?
anyway I don't care honestly.
But I'm an argumentative rambling motherfucker so I'm just going to drop my .02 in here and not come back.
I personally am offended by a few things in this thread. first off we are not all breeders. I'm not a breeder sorry. I dropped out of highschool much less taking a botany class in college. But honestly a botany class teaching me how to breed wouldn't do nothing. I'm not shantibaba I don't start with a bajillion seeds to make parents. I work with what I got, select the best and reject the rest and breed. I pick my best couple females, and a couple nice males and they gangbang. All the breeding knowledge in the world isn't going to change that I select the best and reject the rest. Sorry I don't live up to your expectations of breeders and conservationists. I got a couple oaxacas and hawaiians and I'm doing what I can to work with them and thats all I can do you know.
Next I want to mention that there is nothing wrong with not being a botanist. since the dawn of the cannabis plant it hasn't been botanists making weed what it is its been peronal growers doing exactly what I said. select the best and reject the rest. its been good enough for humanity since BC and its good enough for me now. Saying shit like weed will turn back into hemp from acclimating just pisses me off.
next you need to understand that all weed is bagseed. ALL OF IT. every strain you've ever smoked at some point was taken by a grower out of his sack and bred with. about the most hypocritical thing you can do is knock a bagseed grower when you are smoking the product of someone like the person your laughing at who took the bagseed and worked it.
next the commercial hate gets me quite pissed. whether seeds or weed NOBODY has any right to knock another persons hustle in what we are all tied into. don't get me wrong there is words to be said about 6000 dollar lbs and fifteen dollars per pot seed. But I'm talking about just the average growers and breeders.
You know I'm not even growing right now much less selling but I get quite angry at half assed assumptions that you grow weed to get rich and you don't care what your selling blah blah. I used to sell weed because I love growing weed, and giving it to people that can't find it. I truly feel for those with empty pipes if you've ever been dry you know that shit sucks. There simply isn't enough weed for all the smokers and weed is a gift from god to the labor class people. They are entitled to it. and it takes dedicated growers and sellers to do it. This isn't a perfect world and despite alot of people apparently not even being able to grasp the concept of it NOT EVERYONE CAN GROW WEED. and its not a good idea for everyone to grow weed. If you smoke a half ounce per month and aren't poor I have no idea why you would put your wife and childrens lives and your freedom on the line growing weed in your house over 2 grand of weed a year. Whether you want to see it or not growers and dealers have their place in the scheme of things too.
Gamma Goblin
Member
Gamma Goblin
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamalito
I'm not exactly sure how taking a "handful" of seeds and open pollinating them (like you previously stated) is better than 2 desirable females cultivating them under conditions that as accurately as possible replicate the conditions in the region of origin and pollinate them with 8-10 males. See the thing is by open pollinating without first bearing in mind the conditions of the region of origin you are selecting for plants that do best indoors under artificial lights and probably leaning them towards a more temperate phenotype because the plants that produce the most seeds and pollen will be the ones that thrive under your conditions. In the instances where I have been gifted only a few viable seeds of an ultra rare landrace I have chosen to reproduce them and I don't view this as damaging to the gene pool. Unlike you I don't see how doing nothing is worse. Perhaps you could explain that.
Unquote
I agree with your point Zamalito but this does seem like severe inbreeding. How large does a breeding population need to be for indefinite continuation of a line without having negative effects of inbreeding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamalito
I'm not exactly sure how taking a "handful" of seeds and open pollinating them (like you previously stated) is better than 2 desirable females cultivating them under conditions that as accurately as possible replicate the conditions in the region of origin and pollinate them with 8-10 males. See the thing is by open pollinating without first bearing in mind the conditions of the region of origin you are selecting for plants that do best indoors under artificial lights and probably leaning them towards a more temperate phenotype because the plants that produce the most seeds and pollen will be the ones that thrive under your conditions. In the instances where I have been gifted only a few viable seeds of an ultra rare landrace I have chosen to reproduce them and I don't view this as damaging to the gene pool. Unlike you I don't see how doing nothing is worse. Perhaps you could explain that.
Unquote
I agree with your point Zamalito but this does seem like severe inbreeding. How large does a breeding population need to be for indefinite continuation of a line without having negative effects of inbreeding?
Zamalito
Are commercial seed makers doing harm to the overall gene pool?
Some of the seed makers go to the source of the seeds, I remember reading about Shanti's trips to India, Afropips collecting seeds from Africa, Federated seeds in south America. Which I think is awesome.
What does scare me is when people introduce non-native strains into a native population.
That is a great example of the different goals breeders have. The commercial seed makers have a different set of goals than a medical breeder would. As well a preservationist would have.
Are commercial seed makers doing harm to the overall gene pool?
Some of the seed makers go to the source of the seeds, I remember reading about Shanti's trips to India, Afropips collecting seeds from Africa, Federated seeds in south America. Which I think is awesome.
What does scare me is when people introduce non-native strains into a native population.
Motaco I think you're being modest. Though you might not have the formal education you're definitely knowledgeable and I don't doubt that you've read a lot about cannabis. I'm also certain that you take a great deal of pride in what you do.
The thing is bacchus there's very few native populations that have been untouched in the last 30 years. The zambezi river strains in africa and maybe a few other dark corners of the world are the only places that come to mind. Fortunately cannabis is extremely plastic. It makes me think of the black tuna gang in santa marta. Essentially a pure sativa phenotype was milked from pure indicas by moving them to columbia. The bottom line is I think we're making more of inbreeding depression than we should. One of the reasons cannabis is so plastic is its dioecious nature and the fact that pollen can travel such large distances. Take opium poppies for example. The structure of the plant makes it so almost all pollenation is self pollenation. Many wild plant species occur at such a low frequency in the wild that cross pollenation is very rare. Its my belied that much of what we consider to be inbreeding depression isn't that at all. Genes for strong vigorous growth tend to be dominant. When we breed based on aesthetics such as high flower density, resin content many of the traits for hardiness and vigor take a back seat especially when a breeder is growing indoor/greenhouse and has learned to dial in everything perfectly for that strain. Think of wild cannabis populations. Wild plots of hundreds of plants are quite rare. Mostly its less than a dozen plants in one spot or just a few plants here and there. Many traditional farmers cull the males only leaving a few missed stray males to pollinate and then only take flowers from a few of the best plants for the next years seed.
The thing is bacchus there's very few native populations that have been untouched in the last 30 years. The zambezi river strains in africa and maybe a few other dark corners of the world are the only places that come to mind. Fortunately cannabis is extremely plastic. It makes me think of the black tuna gang in santa marta. Essentially a pure sativa phenotype was milked from pure indicas by moving them to columbia. The bottom line is I think we're making more of inbreeding depression than we should. One of the reasons cannabis is so plastic is its dioecious nature and the fact that pollen can travel such large distances. Take opium poppies for example. The structure of the plant makes it so almost all pollenation is self pollenation. Many wild plant species occur at such a low frequency in the wild that cross pollenation is very rare. Its my belied that much of what we consider to be inbreeding depression isn't that at all. Genes for strong vigorous growth tend to be dominant. When we breed based on aesthetics such as high flower density, resin content many of the traits for hardiness and vigor take a back seat especially when a breeder is growing indoor/greenhouse and has learned to dial in everything perfectly for that strain. Think of wild cannabis populations. Wild plots of hundreds of plants are quite rare. Mostly its less than a dozen plants in one spot or just a few plants here and there. Many traditional farmers cull the males only leaving a few missed stray males to pollinate and then only take flowers from a few of the best plants for the next years seed.
G
Guest
it really is a shame that there are so few untouched seed lines. i had a bag of landrace oaxacan beans in which i found a few smaller indica plants.
this is a good topic for a thread and it can potentially be full of good information, here's to hoping this one doesnt go to shit!
this is a good topic for a thread and it can potentially be full of good information, here's to hoping this one doesnt go to shit!
Blatant
Member
Caveat Emptor
Caveat Emptor
Hey check it out. Actual information.
I've been growing out nothing but seed from seed banks for the past two years. 100's of Dollars down the drain with horrible results. So much Hemp and Hermie seed in these packs of Knock Out Genetics. Out of a few Dozen packs from various (reputable) breeders about 4 were worth keeping. I'll be rocking clones 90% of the time from now on.
There just is not enough refining. No stated Goals to breeding and Lame results. People always talking about BX to this and that to come up with............whatever comes out. Polyhybrids crossed to Polyhybrids. S1 pollen used for breeding. A good Male is probably hardest to find in all this. And when you do, try to find more than one.
I'm in no way a Breeder, but as a long time grower I become familiar with Breeding and its tendencies which ultimately lead me to being a better grower. I, thru trial and error along with speaking with other Growers and Breeders know what sucks, who is a Hack, Who has promise and who is a Scam Artist. I've come to the Conclusion that 70% of stuff being sold is Shizer. I will say that DJ Short and Chimera have never let me down. Never.
A question I always wonder is....... How often do the Breeders here throw out there stock when it is not within the goals or results you have set for yourself and the project you are working on?
Blatant
Caveat Emptor
Hey check it out. Actual information.
I've been growing out nothing but seed from seed banks for the past two years. 100's of Dollars down the drain with horrible results. So much Hemp and Hermie seed in these packs of Knock Out Genetics. Out of a few Dozen packs from various (reputable) breeders about 4 were worth keeping. I'll be rocking clones 90% of the time from now on.
There just is not enough refining. No stated Goals to breeding and Lame results. People always talking about BX to this and that to come up with............whatever comes out. Polyhybrids crossed to Polyhybrids. S1 pollen used for breeding. A good Male is probably hardest to find in all this. And when you do, try to find more than one.
I'm in no way a Breeder, but as a long time grower I become familiar with Breeding and its tendencies which ultimately lead me to being a better grower. I, thru trial and error along with speaking with other Growers and Breeders know what sucks, who is a Hack, Who has promise and who is a Scam Artist. I've come to the Conclusion that 70% of stuff being sold is Shizer. I will say that DJ Short and Chimera have never let me down. Never.
A question I always wonder is....... How often do the Breeders here throw out there stock when it is not within the goals or results you have set for yourself and the project you are working on?
Blatant
Ogstradamus
Member
I don't know anything about breeding really...but here's my views on the related subject matter as it relates to me.
Just like the US is considered a giant melting pot, I fear this is what is happening to marijuana. Not necessarily a horrible thing, but to those people who like diversity and uniqueness this is terrible.
It seems like today more and more breeders are coming out and just crossing every strain they can get their hands on. Everything is getting mixed together to eventually form a generic marijuana that is a combination of pretty much all the strains.
Look how many strains contain Afghani, Skunk, NL, and Big Bud. Look how many commercial strains look and taste almost identical because there is only one strain difference in the cross.
Like Time2Unite was sayin, what happened to those killer skunks and NLs of the 80s? The ones that TRULY were skunky and dank as hell? I've heard countless people SEARCHING for that truly good skunk strain but it's almost impossible to find nowadays.
It's really mostly not directly the breeders fault though. The breeder legitimately releases their countless crosses then these crosses go out to hundreds of growers who can now do whatever they want with it..
Say someone decided to use Abusive's cut to make some crosses and sell some seeds. For example... Abusive Cut X Afghani to increase yield and gain uniformity ( lol im not a breeder dont make fun of me ). Hundreds of people buy these seeds and grow them out. It so happens that 20 of the people that bought seeds are purely profit oriented commercial growers. Because this cross probably resembles OG kush a lot, why would the commercial dealer sell it as OG kush X afghani? And god forbid he decided to make clones...would he sell the clones as pure OG kush to gain profit?
For Sour Diesel IBL I bet there are soo many people out there who "accidentally" left the IBL tag off when giving out clones or selling their crops.
I dunno, I'm not bashing the breeders...and I don't necessarily know what can be done to stop this....
Just my view on things, feel free to correct me if I'm way off and retared
=P
PEACE - ogstra
Just like the US is considered a giant melting pot, I fear this is what is happening to marijuana. Not necessarily a horrible thing, but to those people who like diversity and uniqueness this is terrible.
It seems like today more and more breeders are coming out and just crossing every strain they can get their hands on. Everything is getting mixed together to eventually form a generic marijuana that is a combination of pretty much all the strains.
Look how many strains contain Afghani, Skunk, NL, and Big Bud. Look how many commercial strains look and taste almost identical because there is only one strain difference in the cross.
Like Time2Unite was sayin, what happened to those killer skunks and NLs of the 80s? The ones that TRULY were skunky and dank as hell? I've heard countless people SEARCHING for that truly good skunk strain but it's almost impossible to find nowadays.
It's really mostly not directly the breeders fault though. The breeder legitimately releases their countless crosses then these crosses go out to hundreds of growers who can now do whatever they want with it..
Say someone decided to use Abusive's cut to make some crosses and sell some seeds. For example... Abusive Cut X Afghani to increase yield and gain uniformity ( lol im not a breeder dont make fun of me ). Hundreds of people buy these seeds and grow them out. It so happens that 20 of the people that bought seeds are purely profit oriented commercial growers. Because this cross probably resembles OG kush a lot, why would the commercial dealer sell it as OG kush X afghani? And god forbid he decided to make clones...would he sell the clones as pure OG kush to gain profit?
For Sour Diesel IBL I bet there are soo many people out there who "accidentally" left the IBL tag off when giving out clones or selling their crops.
I dunno, I'm not bashing the breeders...and I don't necessarily know what can be done to stop this....
Just my view on things, feel free to correct me if I'm way off and retared
=P
PEACE - ogstra
High&Lonesome said:it really is a shame that there are so few untouched seed lines. i had a bag of landrace oaxacan beans in which i found a few smaller indica plants.
this is a good topic for a thread and it can potentially be full of good information, here's to hoping this one doesnt go to shit!
It won't I'm moderating it and will be keeping an eye on it
I'm interested in this as well but I see diversity as a good thing from what I can see the gene pool
is constantly changing in every living thing thats why we progressed from
single cell organisim's into where we are today
diversity is good and a part of nature, survival of the fittest as someone already said
poor strain's won't las long in real life, same for breeders, if it's not what the customer wants
they won't buy it more than once
G
Guest
what about the hype that lures those "customers" to what are ultimately poor strains in the 1'st place? why do they have to waste thier $ on overpriced seedstock?
i already know what the answer is ... buyer beware & do your homework well !
i already know what the answer is ... buyer beware & do your homework well !
C99 your getting off track......thats called marketing....lol
So what is perserving? Is it keeping native seeds in deep freeze forever?? Making a few 1000 f1s to play with:> every couple of years?
Crossing and hybriding, but always keeping some viable seeds from the source?
Stoned again
So what is perserving? Is it keeping native seeds in deep freeze forever?? Making a few 1000 f1s to play with:> every couple of years?
Crossing and hybriding, but always keeping some viable seeds from the source?
Stoned again
G
Guest
remeber when someone (was it cannabisworld, or overgrow?) showed up with what were reputedly very old haze seeds? people were fighting over the chance to grow them out ... they ended up in spain, or something like that ... anybody know what happend with that "project"
would utilizing large populations for breeding in succesive generations be considered preservation? for example c99 f1 > c99f2, and so on ...each time using multiple males and multiple females for the next generation ... that would capture and preserve all the genetics ... wouldn't it?
would utilizing large populations for breeding in succesive generations be considered preservation? for example c99 f1 > c99f2, and so on ...each time using multiple males and multiple females for the next generation ... that would capture and preserve all the genetics ... wouldn't it?
Azra3l
Member
Hello,
To begin with, what are you calling preservation ? If it's keeping the integrality of the genepool from a strain or a landrace, it's nearly impossible. Because unless you use a huge amount of parents, when you will choose the parents, you will already make a selection....
For example, if you wanna preserve the Thai landrace, what will you begin with ? Probably, you will choose the parents with the less monoecious problems... logical.
But do you know if :
-it's a adaptative trait very important for this landrace ?
-the monoecious allele is not closely related to the loci of a very desirable trait that would be thus lost ?
So I think we should begin this discussion with trying to find a consensus about the meaning and the aim of preservation, shouldn't we ?
+++
To begin with, what are you calling preservation ? If it's keeping the integrality of the genepool from a strain or a landrace, it's nearly impossible. Because unless you use a huge amount of parents, when you will choose the parents, you will already make a selection....
For example, if you wanna preserve the Thai landrace, what will you begin with ? Probably, you will choose the parents with the less monoecious problems... logical.
But do you know if :
-it's a adaptative trait very important for this landrace ?
-the monoecious allele is not closely related to the loci of a very desirable trait that would be thus lost ?
So I think we should begin this discussion with trying to find a consensus about the meaning and the aim of preservation, shouldn't we ?
+++
G
Guest
preservation = keeping the integrity of strain and all of it's characteristics
Time2Unite
Time2Unite
Why does it have to be VS.
......seems to me that preservation and creation can simply co-exsist....
....unless you're just wantin' to bitch....
Time2Unite
Why does it have to be VS.
......seems to me that preservation and creation can simply co-exsist....
....unless you're just wantin' to bitch....
definetly both should be practiced....without creation we all would have the same 10 strains....and without preservation we wouldn't have any landrace or true breeding parents....i see both sides of the argument because no one wants to lose the old school strains, but then again no one wants to all smoke or grow the same 10 strains.
there are breeders out there right now that are concentrating on just landrace strains, there's breeders working to make stable ibls, there's breeders making excellent hybrids, there's breeders trying to bring some clone only strains to seed form for people not lucky enough to obtain clones, there are people that are doing good breeding in their closet, ofcourse there are some hacks but do some research before you purchase so you know what your getting.
i'm no pro but i'm trying to do my part, i've taken kodiak gold ibl and have brought it 2 more generations from whatever it was, it could have been f5 when i bought it but now it's at f7 and i only kept the best males and females so in my personal opinion the strain is better now then what it was...if i would of just done open pollination how would of it got better? even though you have an ibl it will still have slight variation, if you keep using the most robust strong plants you can't make it worse but you can improve. i take no credit because reeferman already had a nice strain but i just took what i got and kept making good selections like i will keep doing. but remember i still have some of the orginals that i bought so the strain is left untouched....and i still have seed from each generation.
same goes for the HTC skunks, i just ordered and recieved a pack just days before they were gone then bub got busted, just in case it was a great strain i started a seed crop instantly so it wouldn't be lost, when they are done i will have more then enough seed and i could give back to bub and help to make sure it wasn't lost.
same goes for the pure, i did the same exact thing, thats just me trying to do my part of preserving.
now on to creation, all the strains mentioned are ibls or true breeding, so i took all possible combinations to seperate places and did some pollination using 2 or more males for each so i have all the mentioned strains x's themselves then i have htc skunk x the pure, the pure x htc skunk, kodiak x htc skunk, kodiak x the pure...nothing wrong with that creation.
last year i really liked this skunk special plant i had but it wouldn't get done outdoors in time, big thick fat heavy yielder, great taste, nice buzz....so i took a few selected kodiak males and pollinated her in the closet.....i grew the results outdoors to see if my plan of big thick rock hard skunk special x kodiak gold would get done in time and here she is a year later....she weighed in at 15 ounces ( dry and trimmed), 3 oz main cola,got done 1st week of oct, and has thick rock hard buds with no mold....everything i hoped i would create!
differnt pheno of the same cross
creation and perservation are both fun and good for cannabis, they should never be vs against each other.
there are breeders out there right now that are concentrating on just landrace strains, there's breeders working to make stable ibls, there's breeders making excellent hybrids, there's breeders trying to bring some clone only strains to seed form for people not lucky enough to obtain clones, there are people that are doing good breeding in their closet, ofcourse there are some hacks but do some research before you purchase so you know what your getting.
i'm no pro but i'm trying to do my part, i've taken kodiak gold ibl and have brought it 2 more generations from whatever it was, it could have been f5 when i bought it but now it's at f7 and i only kept the best males and females so in my personal opinion the strain is better now then what it was...if i would of just done open pollination how would of it got better? even though you have an ibl it will still have slight variation, if you keep using the most robust strong plants you can't make it worse but you can improve. i take no credit because reeferman already had a nice strain but i just took what i got and kept making good selections like i will keep doing. but remember i still have some of the orginals that i bought so the strain is left untouched....and i still have seed from each generation.
same goes for the HTC skunks, i just ordered and recieved a pack just days before they were gone then bub got busted, just in case it was a great strain i started a seed crop instantly so it wouldn't be lost, when they are done i will have more then enough seed and i could give back to bub and help to make sure it wasn't lost.
same goes for the pure, i did the same exact thing, thats just me trying to do my part of preserving.
now on to creation, all the strains mentioned are ibls or true breeding, so i took all possible combinations to seperate places and did some pollination using 2 or more males for each so i have all the mentioned strains x's themselves then i have htc skunk x the pure, the pure x htc skunk, kodiak x htc skunk, kodiak x the pure...nothing wrong with that creation.
last year i really liked this skunk special plant i had but it wouldn't get done outdoors in time, big thick fat heavy yielder, great taste, nice buzz....so i took a few selected kodiak males and pollinated her in the closet.....i grew the results outdoors to see if my plan of big thick rock hard skunk special x kodiak gold would get done in time and here she is a year later....she weighed in at 15 ounces ( dry and trimmed), 3 oz main cola,got done 1st week of oct, and has thick rock hard buds with no mold....everything i hoped i would create!
differnt pheno of the same cross
creation and perservation are both fun and good for cannabis, they should never be vs against each other.
High folks!
interesting topic.
I think the most important thing we should all look at when discussing this sort of thing is: >>>What we Dont know<<<
remember. in cannabis History, and its evolution, there are more theories still, than facts.
Peace, bub.
interesting topic.
I think the most important thing we should all look at when discussing this sort of thing is: >>>What we Dont know<<<
remember. in cannabis History, and its evolution, there are more theories still, than facts.
Peace, bub.
Am I a Hack?
Am I a Hack?
Cosmic Tokers quote from the first version of this preservation vs. creation thing "It is my opinion that a true breeder should be more about preservation then about creating and that if you come out with 4 or 5 new hybrids/strains per year your a hack and not a breeder, a true breeder has to have a preservation program...." so am I a hack? I thought I was a breeder....I have been growing for 30 years...small grows. I buy quality genetics from breeders at Seedbay and then cross these for my own and other med patients enjoyment and relief. What am I trying to accomplish? I am not selling the seeds, the clones are not going into any gene pool. The pollen doesn't ever even get into the outside air....at least I don't think so. I really want to have a strain different than anybody elses and take pride in passing on the smoke to other med patients and friends. They all rave about my new tastes, flavor, and high. So if I were to create a new "Holly Grail" strain that had all the qualities sought after by everyone worldwide would I then be a true breeder or still a hack? I don't want to be a Hack...I never even heard the word until I read the first thread. Malawi Gold x Holland Hope...Hack Dr. Duck
Am I a Hack?
Cosmic Tokers quote from the first version of this preservation vs. creation thing "It is my opinion that a true breeder should be more about preservation then about creating and that if you come out with 4 or 5 new hybrids/strains per year your a hack and not a breeder, a true breeder has to have a preservation program...." so am I a hack? I thought I was a breeder....I have been growing for 30 years...small grows. I buy quality genetics from breeders at Seedbay and then cross these for my own and other med patients enjoyment and relief. What am I trying to accomplish? I am not selling the seeds, the clones are not going into any gene pool. The pollen doesn't ever even get into the outside air....at least I don't think so. I really want to have a strain different than anybody elses and take pride in passing on the smoke to other med patients and friends. They all rave about my new tastes, flavor, and high. So if I were to create a new "Holly Grail" strain that had all the qualities sought after by everyone worldwide would I then be a true breeder or still a hack? I don't want to be a Hack...I never even heard the word until I read the first thread. Malawi Gold x Holland Hope...Hack Dr. Duck
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