What's new
  • As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.

Popular science on Green Dragon

Levitationofme

Well-known member
Behind the bars of some of the nation's finest cocktail joints, there are secrets: secret recipes, secret bottles for friends only. One of these is the Green Dragon, a liquor potently infused with marijuana.

Popular Science
Drug Week
There've been alcohol-based tinctures of cannabis before, of course -- usually seen in turbid brown jars on windowsills, But one prominent New York bartender (I'll call him Jon) has been responsible for bringing the infusion up to date with modern, artisanal cocktail culture. Jon is a serious, technologically minded craftsman of beverages; he works as a cocktail consultant, and has designed the cocktail programs of more than one Manhattan bar.
He's refined a method that's quick, gives precise, predictable results, and reportedly maximizes the delicious herbal flavor of the drug, to provide a civilized sippable for the beverage connoisseur. Jon's nitrous-powered Green Dragon "just tastes good. We've dialed the strength back substantially, not because we can't make it stronger, but just because people want to be able to drink more of it, because they like it so much."
Jon can rattle off the exact date when (friend of PopSci) Dave Arnold published on his blog the "game-changing" nitrous infusion technique, a method for rapidly forcing new flavors into liquor using gas pressure inside a whipped-cream charger. And it was not very long at all after that date when Jon first had the notion to apply the technique to cannabis.
"If you don't want to smoke, you're left with edibles, but with edibles, there's no way to dose it. Someone hands you this thing, and you're like: who made it? how was it made? You eat a half or a quarter of it, and you wait and wait, and you either feel nothing, or you're destroyed."
"We've dialed the strength back substantially, not because we can't make it stronger, but just because people want to be able to drink more of it." But alcohol absorbs through the digestive tract in a faster, much more predictable way than solid edibles--and so does whatever's dissolved in that alcohol. Hence the precision-infused Green Dragon.
The rapid infusion works--the theory goes--because high pressure forces N2O and alcohol deep into the plant material. Then, when the gas pressure is suddenly released, it causes the nitrous oxide to come out of solution and violently bubble around the bits of plant material, agitating the mixture on a microscopic level.
Traditional infusion in alcohol takes days or weeks, and extracts a broader spectrum of compounds from the plant -- not just the more volatile molecules responsible for psychoactive effects and bright, pleasant flavors, but ones that dissolve over time and impart murky flavor and what some call a headachy effect.
"Ten years ago, I had gotten my hands on this ungodly amount of hash. We couldn't smoke it all. So we started putting it into neutral grain spirit, and it dissolved in, but the thing was, we couldn't get as high. So we gave up and forgot about it for a week, and meanwhile it sat in the car in the 120° sun for a week. The next time, we took a couple of drops and it destroyed us."
"What happened? THC [the main active ingredient in cannabis] normally has a carboxyl group that's attached to it. In order for it to fit into the lock-and-key mechanism of our bodies' cannabinoid receptors, you have to break off the carboxyl group. That takes 30 years--or heat."
The carboxyl group starts breaking off as the temperature gets higher, so Jon heats his Dragon as part of the infusing process. Toasting the cannabis before infusing can drive off some of the delicate aromatics, giving it a cooked flavor, and also runs the risk of vaporizing the THC itself. So Jon heats his only to 100°C (212°F), which gives the infusion a delicate flavor and just the strength he wants, no more.

Journal of Chromatography via Cannabischris.com
Decarboxylation of THC
"You can dial in the recipe to know exactly how many grams you're getting per serving."
The effect of the drug should remain steady for about four hours. One to one-and-a-half ounces is what Jon considers a single serving; six ounces is his maximum imaginable dose.
Nitrous Green Dragon
Here's how Jon does it:
a one-liter heat-tolerant whipped-cream whipper
two nitrous oxide chargers
a double boiler large enough to accommodate the whipper bottle
750 ml mezcal at room temperature (Jon uses Vida or Sombra)
3.5 grams (1/8 ounce) of cannabis (Jon uses "indoor high-grade sativa")
Roughly break up the cannabis.
Put the cannabis and the mezcal in the whipper bottle.
Close the canister and charge it with two charges of N2O according to the instructions.
Let it sit for 5 minutes.
Vent out the pressurized gas. NOTE: you are venting aerosolized ethanol with THC dissolved in it, as well as laughing gas. Jon says "Probably nobody would want to inhale this."
Stir the liquid and let it sit until the gas boils off.
Place the sealed canister in a double boiler and let it simmer for an hour.
Strain the solids out of the liquid and discard them or dry them for other uses. The liquid is nitrous green dragon.

Paul Adams
Clear Green Dragon
Jon developed his recipe using mezcal, whose smokiness complements the herbal flavor of the drug. And mezcal has another advantage -- its innate low pH keeps the color of the infusion vivid green, while more alkaline liquors let it become dingier. But other bartenders have perfected their own preferred recipes. A New Orleans bartender uses cognac; one in Seattle makes it with gin to which he adds a little green Chartreuse, and creates a heady variation on the Last Word cocktail (equal parts gin, green Chartreuse, maraschino liqueur, and lime juice) called the Last Dragon.
"It's not on the menu. No one is selling it. You can't ask for it. But if you're a regular, an insider, your bartender just might pull out a bottle and offer you a taste."
 

stoned-trout

if it smells like fish
Veteran
awesome ...thanks ..and I love mescal..and I would def try the venting gas too as I aint a pussy..jon is wrong unlike clinton I do inhale..i have drank many gallons of green dragon over the years ..never tried mezcal tho for making it..wonder if the scorpion gets infused too???? anyone can eat a worm...caballeros inc from oaxca for real fish......haha yeehaw
 

Levitationofme

Well-known member
Yea, as someone who has tried this method the Nitrous mixed with the Mescal is not to be missed.
What a waste that would be.
 

ChaosCatalunya

5.2 club is now 8.1 club...
Veteran
This started off sounding like typical journalist Bullshit, it has all the hacky flourishes and hype, but then gets into far too much correct, specific detail to be a lie. Yes he spoils it with the secret cool club shit, but that is what his editor, publisher and the shareholders believe sells best, so pay his wages.... But it can't take away the fact that under this there appears to be a lot of truth and experience speaking. Many of us will have different ideas and methods, coming from the green fingered side, but there is a really interesting perspective in this article, thanks for posting it up
 

slowandeasy

Active member
Veteran
How strong is Mezcal? Typically I use 190 proof Everclear. Of course that is without the Nitrous. I like the idea, and it seems like it would work well. I have everything here, except the Mescal. I have some Silver Patron...or Everclear handy. But we all know Everclear never tastes good. I am assuming that "Jon" uses the weaker alcohol, so people can drink more, but will you get as good of an extraction? If this produces consistent dosage and good flavor, I am down. The instructions only call for 3.5 grams for 750ml of Mezcal....that sounds extremely low. 1-1.5oz per dose. Depending on how much of the 750ml you get back, that would be up to 25 doses. I have made green dragon or tinctures many times, but I will be the first to admit that each time I make it, I get inconsistent results. I Might have to give this a try, I just can't see 3.5 grams being enough. I would consider doubling or more, anyone else tried this? Thanks!
 

Levitationofme

Well-known member
Mello version

Mello version

Yea, I guess they don't want to get anyone too stoned trying this at this %

I made one mistake, my ISI is insulated. Putting it in hot water bath very ineffective.

Looks like it is a good starting point.

I would think with enough alcohol to dissolve the thc any 60 proofplus probably works. Probably maximize with the purer alcohol
 

ChaosCatalunya

5.2 club is now 8.1 club...
Veteran
You extract with pure alcohol, then add sugar and dilute with water to taste, or blend it.

Over 50% is pretty undrinkable, have you tried Stroh run 120 overproof ? Insane stuff, evaporates in the back of your mouth before you can swallow it, but has a deranged buzz. All spirits have their character and what this guy says about blending with different Rum/Brandy etc makes sense, as does the slow decarb to preserve desirable terpenes, even though it returns less %THC

Water curing might also be a help, but there is very little decent information about this around, has anybody tried it?
 

slowandeasy

Active member
Veteran
You extract with pure alcohol, then add sugar and dilute with water to taste, or blend it.

Over 50% is pretty undrinkable, have you tried Stroh run 120 overproof ? Insane stuff, evaporates in the back of your mouth before you can swallow it, but has a deranged buzz. All spirits have their character and what this guy says about blending with different Rum/Brandy etc makes sense, as does the slow decarb to preserve desirable terpenes, even though it returns less %THC

Water curing might also be a help, but there is very little decent information about this around, has anybody tried it?

Didn't see anywhere saying in the intructions to extract with pure alcohol. Infact they make it weaker on purpose by not using 190 proof. The No2 is supposed to help extract. I might give it a try, but I would increase the amount of dry product by 2-3x. Water curing would help the taste fir sure, decreased chlorophyll and other garbage. I will be making some edibles with Coconut OIL and few Oz of Rosin chips tonight. Will be interesting to see the strength.
 

ChaosCatalunya

5.2 club is now 8.1 club...
Veteran
Using the strongest alcohol is accepted wisdom, I cannot remember exactly where it came from but people seem fundamentally convinced that pure alcohol performs far better than drinking alcohol, and that you dilute it afterwards.

IIRC THC is extracted easier by pure alcohol hopefully a competent scientist can help out here...
 

slowandeasy

Active member
Veteran
Using the strongest alcohol is accepted wisdom, I cannot remember exactly where it came from but people seem fundamentally convinced that pure alcohol performs far better than drinking alcohol, and that you dilute it afterwards.

IIRC THC is extracted easier by pure alcohol hopefully a competent scientist can help out here...


That is common sense, the higher the alcohol, the better the extract. However, the original instructions do not call for a strong alcohol %. I would agree with you that that would be the most efficient way. But they are claiming 1.0-1.5 oz per dosage only using 3.5g rams of flower in 750ml of alcohol, with a low % alcohol. The No2 must somehow icrease the absorption of the extract? I have 190 proof Everclear, that should ecxtract much better with or without NO2, I just want a consistent recipe, if I can use less material, sweet...but I am not a light weight. And think finding consistent dosage and recipe is the most important part.
 

ChaosCatalunya

5.2 club is now 8.1 club...
Veteran
I did not pay much attention to their recipe or figures, they seemed out, badly informed and possibly deliberately misleading, a barman is probably not the best person to listen to regarding extraction methods, IMO the experts in this are in our field and have been running different extractions and experiments for several decades.

I grow flowers and am constantly trying to improve this, the whole extraction side is booming massively and is still in a state of flux, every 6 months there is a big new thing that is way better than the last, so I stay out of it largely and keep myself busy in the garden.

So, as I have not seen GrayWolf or any of the other experts here speaking about NO2, I find it hard to believe that they have missed such an amazing trick that Mr Barman is all over. There are many different methods of extraction, all fundamentally work, with different results, what was more interesting about this article was the thoughts about blending, taste, decarboxylisation, the conservation or desired loss of terpenes, tastes, etc.

Ageing too, a massive aspect of Spirits and wines, was not even touched upon, the stuff probably disappears too quick for that !
 

PDX Dopesmoker

Active member
Using the strongest alcohol is accepted wisdom, I cannot remember exactly where it came from but people seem fundamentally convinced that pure alcohol performs far better than drinking alcohol, and that you dilute it afterwards.

IIRC THC is extracted easier by pure alcohol hopefully a competent scientist can help out here...

Measured solubility of THC in ethanol decreases substantially as the water fraction increases. 22mg THC per ml of ethanol at room temp for 75% ethanol; 2.2mg/ml at 50%. They might be using barrel strength spirits though, it doesn't say that they're using 80 proof.
I use 190 and aim at about 20mg/ml concentration (10ml of everclear per gram of good bud will give this result if the bud is 20% THC) it makes dosing easier (1 tsp = 5ml = 100mg THC), but I think I learned the 10ml/g ratio in about 1995 from the anarchists cookbook or usenet or some similarly reliable source, so its established wisdom even from before the days of lab tested flower. If you were using low proof stuff and the solubility was much less - lets say it was 10% of the standard 20mg/ml ratio - then you would end up with a drink weak by medical standards, but perfect for a bar environment. Most bartenders can't measure a teaspoon accurately so putting medical strength tincture in their hands is irresponsible, even a 50ml shot of liquor is probably plus or minus a good fraction at most bars.
Its important to recognize that booze people and weed people are way different. I'm sure most of us can eyeball the weight of a dab accurately to within 0.02g every time, but we need to learn to be accepting of other drug cultures even if they are sloppy and dumb.
 

ChaosCatalunya

5.2 club is now 8.1 club...
Veteran
Thankyou, exactly the technical explanation I was missing ^

I also have run into a bit of "popular science on Green Dragon" here in Spain that I should have told

Again, like the Usenet/Anarchist Cookbook myths/legends there is a fundamental truth and science behind the stories...

Here in Spain, miles from civilisation I was told y a local of the "Sol y Luna" method, to leave your GD out to take sunlight and moonlight for a few weeks to extract correctly. While this is not the best way to do things, there is some truth in there, warming up to 40C in the Sun for hours every day will have some decarbing effects I think. Moonlight is romantic hogwash as far as i can tell, a bit like the "Science" of most barmen that PDX Dopesmoker speaks about !
 

Swamp Thang

Well-known member
Veteran
Vent out the pressurized gas. NOTE: you are venting aerosolized ethanol with THC dissolved in it, as well as laughing gas. Jon says "Probably nobody would want to inhale this."
Stir the liquid and let it sit until the gas boils off.

I would imagine that ethanol in aerosol form would be a VERY flammable gas to have within 30 feet of any open flame or spark.

This procedure does sound like an effective way to concentrate THC using weed as the raw material, BUT, for a forgetful, bumbling mad scientist like me, the chances of blowing myself to Kingdom Come would be very high, if I tried this recipe at home.
 

Levitationofme

Well-known member
I have everything i need to try a couple of runs tonight.
Ill try a mezcal and a run w everclear.

One question i pose to all the smart extractors out there.
Best method to pre decarbox the herb. Is toasting it as per recipe the best way?
 

wdr

Active member
Veteran
Thanks for sharing some nice info here, ive done my green dragon or dragons blood (second
name its far more accurate in my op) for the first time few weeks ago it looks like that:

picture.php


i put app. 8g of my grinded cannatonic into fan oven for 7mins at 150 C and then to 750ml of 70% homemade alcohol - i made 98% pure but ive read that you shoudnt put buds into pure alcohol, maybe its a lie? but thats ive read somewhere..

If it comes to taste and power.. I didint added any of flavouring things - vanilla or cinammon - like was on the reciepe , i wish to try pure dragons blood and ... it taste bit like you bite some pure undried bud, thats the best way to describe it.Some friend of mine says its awfull, but for me its not that bad, ive been drinking some worst shit in my life ;)
Power, well its cannatonic so its not the strongest weed ever, but even whit that after 2 x 25ml shots you feel fine, some unexperienced people more than just fine :biggrin:

someone says here that everthing over 50% alcohol is undrinkable, well its all matter of point of view, there where i come from i know some people who says that anything under 50% is undrinkable.

Anyway ill make dragons blood again for sure, but this time ill add something for flavour.

stay safe, :tiphat:
 

Levitationofme

Well-known member
Run one in the water bath. A concept attempt as I was too stoned to measure the herb. 1/2 bottle of everclear.
I used about 7 grams of cured buds that had Pip's all thru it. Mediocre smoke at best.
A also had some dry trim added a couple grams. I did a BHO run with some of the same mix a couple weeks ago and the concentrate was decent
Weed was dried for a week in my kief box.
......soon to be finished.
I inhaled... First though I did a bong hit of my best. I didn't say this but it was Phenomenal. Wow seems lifetimes ago I played with whippets.
 

FishmanK

Member
Kahlanja!

Kahlanja!

Kahlua makes a great base for kief laced liqueurs
the strong coffee taste overpowers the ganja flavors, however they are introduced
great for evening happy times too
the initial burst of caffeine fades to a good restful sleep...

Using older Dry_ice Kief
I added enough to have a 1/4 gr in (2) 1oz shots of the finished Liqueur and recommend this as a maximum alcohol-laced-w-thc intake for most folks
Initially the 9gr of getting stale,older-but-still gonzo kief is added to 1/2 750ml of 151
after this sits for a year in a ball canning jar with infrequent but repeated agitation
I use it for a
KAHLANJA!
Base, adding more regular rum and...

originally had trouble with adding strong enough coffee flavor cause in the end there was always 1/2 of it going in as infused rum...
(KAHLUA is actually made with rum and so IDK why it's mixed so often w vodka...)

till I figured out to score
51JDTKK0TJL._SY300_.jpg

Freze-Dried Espresso crystals
cheap by case off auction
in goes sweetness, brown sugar adds a molassesy flav...

adding a vanilla bean and the brewed extra thick espresso syrup
at decanting
its fun fun fun!

wait another year or 2 and drink...

Decarboxolation ALSO happens with just TIME
and the developing gycerines and mellowing is sublime

can't wait
try using food-grade glycerine in your liqueurs to add that hint of thick mellow body to a fresh brew...
if consuming soon, heat the kief in a bit of water before adding to 151 to decarboxolate as per time scheduals off previously posted link to SPR info


get out yer calculator and measuring cups, I gave ya a hint or 2 but my secret recipe is for me to know and you to sip if you ever make it to FiShHEaDs Ridge


FHRKahlanja!.jpg

ok, I will admit to using a small amount of unsweetened organic cocoa powder too maybe...

 

Latest posts

Latest posts

Top