PLL Club. (if you don't know, now you know)

[Hydro-Soil]

I've been running both my workhorse 8s with 4 55watt bulbs for over a year, no issues yet.

Tips that will make them last the longest:

- Keep a fan on the ballast to keep it at 75F or below.

- Don't change the wiring after installation... only lamps.

- Change your lamps every 18 months so they don't start drawing more power.

Have fun and ....

Stay Safe!

 

[Hamburglar]

I'm planning on downgrading my grow (due to stealth) and will be using PPLs for both veg and flower.

My grow spaces will be 23"l x 23"h x 10.5"d for both veg and flower chambers. (1.7 sq")

I already have a ready built PLL light bracket for veg which will fit in the veg chamber.

However for flowering I'm thinking of getting 2x 55w x2 ballasts and run 4x 55w 2700k spectrum bulbs for flowering.

Will be 220w total, 11,000 lumen/sq', 130w/sq'.

I'll be running Hempy style SOG with C99 clones in coke cans.

Does this sound like too much light?

 

[Hydro-Soil]

A bit.

I'd run around 75w/sqft with 100w being the max I'd consider... without more research. That's a lot of light for only 23" high.

Can you stack those two... cut out the bottom of the top one and make a nice tall cab? Perhaps use something else for vegging?

I'd be interested to see what you come up with in your situation.

Stay Safe!

 

[Hamburglar]

Well, the cabinets have been knocked together. Managed to gain an extra 2.5" in height, which I'm sure will come in handy. It is still in the build stages so there isn't much to look at yet, however I do plan to take photos once all is done.

Managed to find some 2700k 55w lights for flowering. Just got to wait for them to arrive.

Did a sneaky one with the light fittings. I will be using some terminal blocks to pinch onto the pins rather than order some expensive sockets and pay shipping when I can get these for £1 a strip:

Really looking forward to getting this thing finished and running. I hope to get everything installed by the time I harvest some bigish plants from my 400w tent. Got a few small hempy cans in there that I don't want to use the 400w light on.

 

[J. Greenstein]

Hey guys, I've read this thread and am now putting together a pl-l cab! How many cfm's extraction fan do you think I will need for 4 x 55w of pl-l's with AH Supply reflectors, in a 18 x 22 x 42 cabinet?

Link to cabinet: https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=228821

 

[2000pm]

Wattup up PLLers. Lets get this one going again!

I'd like to hear some more thoughts about bulb distance from canopy. There isn't a whole lot documented out there on the english forums and I'm not quite sure where to put things at.

I'm currently using 4x 55w in a scrog setup and keeping the lights + reflectors about 3~4" from the top. I had them this close or a little closer when the plant was young and it did not seem to like the heat/intensity at that age. Once she got older this distance doesn't seem to harm anything.

I also want to get the best spread and intensity/penetration with the reflectors as well so there is also that to consider.

 

[LittleBuds]

Has anyone checked out these ballasts? http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/2195/GE-73192.html

(4) Lamp - F54T5/HO - 120/277 Volt - Programmed Start - 1.11 Ballast Factor

1.11 ballast factor. Programmed start for longer bulb life. Can it handle 4x 55w bulbs?

What's not to like?

 

[brotherjericho]

Wattup up PLLers. Lets get this one going again!

I'd like to hear some more thoughts about bulb distance from canopy. There isn't a whole lot documented out there on the english forums and I'm not quite sure where to put things at.

I'm currently using 4x 55w in a scrog setup and keeping the lights + reflectors about 3~4" from the top. I had them this close or a little closer when the plant was young and it did not seem to like the heat/intensity at that age. Once she got older this distance doesn't seem to harm anything.

I also want to get the best spread and intensity/penetration with the reflectors as well so there is also that to consider.

I can attest to the distance thing with seedlings: anything less than 5" is dangerous for 55w bulbs. I fried 7 seedlings (I'm a newb to all growing) before I figured out what was happening to them. Since then, I put about 9" distance from very young plants and they seem to do well.

Once they are developed, 2-3" seems to be OK.

 

[brotherjericho]

Has anyone checked out these ballasts? http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/2195/GE-73192.html

(4) Lamp - F54T5/HO - 120/277 Volt - Programmed Start - 1.11 Ballast Factor

1.11 ballast factor. Programmed start for longer bulb life. Can it handle 4x 55w bulbs?

What's not to like?

The ballast factor is probably not listed in GE's literature when driving PL-Ls, but I can tell you that the Philips Advance drops down to .9 for high wattage PL-Ls. I imagine GE is similar. For less money you can get Fulham's that will have a similar ballast factor.

 

[rives]

The ballast factor is probably not listed in GE's literature when driving PL-Ls, but I can tell you that the Philips Advance drops down to .9 for high wattage PL-Ls. I imagine GE is similar. For less money you can get Fulham's that will have a similar ballast factor.

Brother nailed it here. There are wild swings in the ballast factors of what would seem to be very similar lamps. That, combined with the fact that very little testing has been done by U.S. ballast manufacturers on PL-L's, can lead you to spend a lot of money for negligible returns. If you cannot find data relating specifically to PL-L's, be very cautious.

 

[brotherjericho]

Well, I joined ICMag mostly because of this thread, so I'm hoping some experts are around. What kind of distance is too close or too far for seedlings and then more established plants?

I started as a newb a little over a month ago and decided to go with PLLs for my veg box. 3-55w using home made reflectors. My box is 30"w x 21"d x 30"h, and I fought with heat even blowing an 6" desk fan across the plants and a 120mm PC fan pulling exhaust out. It would get as high as 88F. Now that is not super hot, but I do know that 2" is too close for seedlings as I ended up solarizing/bleaching out 7 seedlings (mostly indica strains). Luckily, 6 of those were freebies.

Anyway, I rebuilt my fixture so it is enclosed and being cooled by one 80mm PC fan that pulls intake air from the socket end to the tip and out of the box. I also added a 4th lamp to get a better concentration of light. Temps below the fixture stay around 77-79F with the closet door open (box is in walk-in closet) and as high as 82F with it closed. I have it closed when company is over, so sometimes 2 days at a time. I think 82F is manageable.

However, I am less concerned about temps as I am distance. I do not want to stunt any more plants (they all lived but stopped growing) but I also do not want slow growth due to not enough effective light. Thus I ask the experts, what is the best distance for these lights for seedlings and established plants?

Right now, my one plant (Female Seeds Neville's Haze) that survived but still is not growing well (imho) is about 4-5" under the lights. It is on its 6th true node and I have not topped or otherwise manually stressed it (its had enough!). Its new growth is health looking and the only bad looking leaves are from the first node which could be a combination of the light issue and nitrogen deficiency (since take care of a week ago).

My new seedlings -- 10 days and 3 days -- are at 8" and 10", respectively. The seedlings seem to be stretching some but I am very paranoid about moving them closer as I already lost about 1 month on my first set before I realized what the problem was. These three are all in a line under 2-55w placed about 2" apart with the other row on the sickly seedlings to see if they will ever bounce back (looking doubtful).

So what do the experts with these lights think? How much closer can I move my various plants?

 

[brotherjericho]

So did all of the PL-L folks move on to "greener" pastures?

In any case, moved my younger seedling up 1.5" (piece of 2x4 under it), will see how it reacts throughout the day/weekend. I've become quite proficient in spotting the trouble signs of light bleaching after so many bad starts .

 

[rives]

Your experiences mirror my own. I usually keep my fresh starts down about a foot or more from the lamps, and then move them up closer once I see them start to stretch a little. I've found that the only time that you need to be within 4" or so of the lamp is when you are vegging a reasonably large plant.

PL-Ls have more penetration than I ever would have expected, and if you keep them too close to the plants, you wind up with these squat little bushes with internodes so tight that it actually makes the eventual LSTing or scrogging more difficult.

 

[brotherjericho]

TY, yeah that was the problem with using PL-Ls for my first grow. All sorts of info out there on regular CFLs and I thought it was valid for these too. No way. 2-3" will fry them in no time. I was chasing all sorts of supposed causes for my yellow then brown (more of a purplish/grey really) leaves until I realized it was the lights!

Since then all has been well *knocks on wood*. My NH had some weird marbling on a leaf or two and I was concerned it was bleaching but I left it alone and it has filled out.

On another site I post pics of the funky leaf for advice and some guy said I was an idiot for thinking 55w lights would bleach a plant. Not many have experience with these things.

 

[2000pm]

FWIW I even started my plants under a coralife 36w fixture (2x 18w with a plexi shield to boot) and that sort of distance was still far too intense for the young plants. I imagine if I was running the AHS lights full tilt at that stage they may have been worse for wear.

Any updates on that plant under your new light rives? Really curious to see how it fills up that supposed far-red dip in these lights.

 

[rives]

These pictures were from 1 week prior to harvest. It is still drying, so I don't know what the final outcome is yet. I'm certain that there is far more potential to be had - I've been chasing a chronic mag deficit all the way through. I run Blumats with a self-replenishing reservoir, so it quickly runs out the calmag when I leave town. I'm about to make some substantial changes in my system.

I had high hopes for the next run and was getting 4 more girls ready to go when some spider mites came to visit. After beating them back, I only had 3 days to get the blumats tuned before I left town (it takes about a week normally). When I got home, I found that not only had the fresh transplants been too wet for 11 days, but the batteries in my furnace thermostat had died prematurely and the house was sitting at 50 degrees. I was tempted to do a little mercy killing, but didn't have anything else ready to go, so I'm letting them go to see how they recover.

Sometimes this little hobby of mine really pisses me off! If the rest of this went as easily as the electrical, I'd have it dicked.

 

[2000pm]

Damn they still look pretty good for that series of trouble! Dialed should be very interesting indeed.

 

[Slim Pickens]

I have a question to ask regarding input voltage.I have been looking at the Workhorse 8.It is listed at 1000bulbsdotcom as either 120v or 277v.Ok,here is the question and don't laugh I need 220 volt transformers....what is a 277v?Who runs 277v anyway? lol

Pl-l's sound great,but to be honest...I am really concerned about wiring them up with multiple lamps.I've seen the pics and the wiring diagrams...still like trying to read a newspaper printed in Chinese...but I don't really have a choice,as there is no one local here that I could ask.

 

[rives]

277 is a widely used voltage in commercial buildings, and is non-existent in residential as far as I know. Check out the kits from AHSupply.com (link). I've used a bunch of them, they are very complete, have a great reflector and the sockets are pre-wired. Very simple to hook up and come with all of the small parts that you will need.

 

[someotherguy]

277 is a widely used voltage in commercial buildings, and is non-existent in residential as far as I know. Check out the kits from AHSupply.com (link). I've used a bunch of them, they are very complete, have a great reflector and the sockets are pre-wired. Very simple to hook up and come with all of the small parts that you will need.

thanks for helping out man, i didn't know the answer myself so suggested Slim check this thread as i knew someone would be able to help.

...also, i checked out that link you provided and it looks pretty complete and easy to assemble and not too much more than if you were to buy the parts seperately.

...i also found a page on thier site regarding international models that are identical except the ballasts range from 210 to 250. ...that page can be found here.

peace, SOG