Please help my sorry seedlings!

[Megawattfarmer]

Hi all,

Okay, so I was really hoping my first post wouldn't be in this forum.

I'm an OG refugee that took a couple of years off and am trying my hand/thumb at growing again. I planted 5 seeds that I've saved for 4 years (original flo) and 4 bagseeds that have been saved for almost as long. I didn't expect all of them to sprout, so....

I planted two per cup in a "seed mix" (Schultz seed start) soil that my wife had laying around with some cardboard cut to divide the cup into two compartments. Much to my amazement, they all sprouted within a couple of days of each other. We should have seperated them sooner, but had to leave town. When we returned, we transplanted - the roots were somewhat tangled at the very bottom of the cup, and I'm sure we damaged the roots when we tried to seperate them without too much tearing...
Here is a pic of them freshly transplanted.



After a day or two they started showing signs of overwatering, but I'm pretty sure I wasn't. The pots they are in are super light, and you can definitely feel when they are dry. Also they showed what I interpreted to be a potassium deficiency. So we added a small amount (approx. 1/8 tsp.) of blood and bone meal on day 18 and they seemed to perk up a little bit the next day or two. Now they seem to be heading south again.

Here's a pic from day 19.




And here are a couple from today, day 21. Not looking so good again.








So....

Any ideas? The temp stays fairly cool right now (68 - 80) depending on the house temp. They are about 3 inches from 200 watts of aquarium type, high output compact flos.

Did I mess up the roots? or do you think the soil is just shit and they need new soil ASAP.

Here's a pic of our previous flo grow, to show that I can, in fact, grow cannabis.


Thanks for any help.




-MWfarmer

 

[Guest]

Here are your problems that may have contributed.

I planted two per cup in a "seed mix" (Schultz seed start) soil that my wife had laying around


I'm sure we damaged the roots when we tried to seperate them without too much tearing...


So we added a small amount (approx. 1/8 tsp.) of blood and bone meal on day 18 and they seemed to perk up a little bit the next day or two.

That is nute burn, and undoubtably some bad soil.


And here would be the correct answer to fixing all of it. :

Did I mess up the roots? or do you think the soil is just shit and they need new soil ASAP.

Get a soil with no or light nutes. Transplant and then after recovery and with stable PH begin to fert or transplant to a slightly hotter soil after shock and recovery.

 

[sproutco]

In a veg fert you want:

>2-1-2 ratio nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium
>contain all the micros: iron, manganese, zinc, copper, boron, molybdenum
>contain calcium and magnesium if no dol. lime is in the soil or you need to boost levels
>contain sulfur if no gypsum added at planting to the soil or other sulfur based ferts are used
>potassium chloride not in it; instead potassium nitrate, pot. sulfate, or monopotassium phosphate instead
>as little ammonia or urea as possible as your nitrogen source; instead nitrate nitrogen

Investigate adjusting the ph of your fert water after mixing to about ph 6. Directions for making your own ph up and down are in my signature. The materials used can be found at the auto parts store or grocery store. Ph test strips can be used from the aquarium section of a pet store. 4 to 7 range will work. Getting a good ph meter that tests liquids should be on your shopping list when you get extra money.


Epsom salts you can get at the drugstore. Powdered gypsum you can find at a good garden center. Call around. Hoffman may be a brand and it comes in small bags like 5 pounds or so.




Here is the company that sells hoffman gypsum. Send them an email if you get stuck and can't find it...

Good Earth, Inc.
Marketing Department
P.O. Box 290
Lancaster, NY 14086
Tel: 716-684-8111
Fax: 716-684-3722
[email protected]

If no dolomite lime in your soil mix and no calcium and magnesium in your regular ferts, add 1/4 teaspoon of both powdered gypsum + epsom salts per gallon of water along with the regular ferts. If you have dolomite lime in the mix, add this only every third time and none in your regular ferts.

Blood and bone meal contain little or no potassium. If k was really your problem, you would add seaweed/kelp or mix greensand into your mix. Stump remover D) is a great source of potassium if it contains potassium nitrate. 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of water.

Check out links in my signature below for more helpful hints.

I am on cloud 7.5 after smoking 1/2 a joint and a six pack of beer. Good luck on your grow. :friends:

 

[sproutco]

Careful. There is an imposter Klingon that is telling everyone he's Kirk. Ignore him.

 

[Guest]

They kinda look overwatered to me. And as you said you need new soil ASAP. Get a 20-20-20 fert like peters and start to use at 1/4 strength in about a week or week and a half after transplant. Buying peters is a lot eaiser then gathering 10 different items. and everything you need is there. No need for stump remover(wtf) and you would be a lot better off with a ph meter. Try to aim for a ph of 6.0-6.8

 

[Megawattfarmer]

Thank you for the replies!

Sproutco - I'm sorry, my wife corrected me, it was phosphorous def we were thinking. kinda grey splotchy area on the lower leaves and they were turning brittle, hence the blood and bone... We made a late night dash to K-mart. We live in the boonies, not even a Walmart...
Got some hyponex potting soil that looked pretty good. We are going to go with our original grow recipe (see below) minus the Sam's choice to replace the Schultz seed starter and transplant. I figure it worked for us before, except we used hydrated lime.

(BOGs indoor organic grow methods 2001 - Overgrow)

- "Soil Mix is easy get Sam’s Choice, Magic Earth with fertilizer (.09-.06-.05) in already and mix 2/3 cup of blood meal and 2/3 cup of bone meal into each 3 gal pot. By adding 2 tablespoons of dry lime to mix you help flowering and avoid over-acidity. Wal-Mart has this kind and it is cheap! Many prefer to use 5 gallon pots. You should add 10% perlite for good air to the roots and good drainage."

I do have a PH test kit for my reef aquarium, I'll have to check the range on it though. I have always wanted one of those cool electronic ones though.

I wish I was on cloud 7.5, the whole valley is dry, hence my taking matters into my own hands!

I will look into that ph up and down sig.

Cheers!

 

[sproutco]

Read the how to make a soilless mix thread in my signature. Probably my best, most colorful thread I have created.

 

[Guest]

Megawattfarmer, I would hold off on sproutcos witches brew of ph up and down. I dont know of anybody on this site who would recomend you use that for ganja plants or any other plants other than sproutco. Your better off with some GH ph up and down thats made for plants.

 

[Megawattfarmer]

Thanks for your help guys. I transplanted to some real soil last night and they are already looking more perky. Hopefully tomorrow I will have some healthier pics to post!

 

[kokua]

i agree with hazetoker...but I will take it a step further. I wouldn't take any of sproutco's advice...

If you need supplies that aren't available locally...there are many online hydro supply shops that will ship to your door or a safe adresses door.

 

[Nape]

Megawattfarmer, I would hold off on sproutcos witches brew of ph up and down. I dont know of anybody on this site who would recomend you use that for ganja plants or any other plants other than sproutco. Your better off with some GH ph up and down thats made for plants.

I have made my own PH up and down with Sprouts recipe. The Ph down with Sulphoric acid works great and for 5 bucks, I have enough forever The PH up was a little more difficult as they do not sell Lye anymore (damn meth labs)

Sometimes a Phosphoric acid based PH down will give you to much P if you have to use a lot and you are already heavy on it

It's all good, more than half the fun is playing around with different things.

My next grow is going to be in his very COLORFUL Soilless mix. I like the idea of knowing the exact amount on ferts your plant is seeing and not just guessing as I did in FFOF.

That is all...............

 

[Guest]

If you have to use a lot of ph up/ down there may be another problem. Chasing ph = problems.

 

[Nape]

If you have to use a lot of ph up/ down there may be another problem. Chasing ph = problems.

I completely agree. My last grow I changed Ferts to House And Garden of Holland. When I add this to my RO 6.0 water, it goes down to low 3's. In the past I hade to bring the PH Down, now UP.

 

[Megawattfarmer]

I think that the sprouts are looking better. Still a pale green color...

Checked the ph with a cheapo two-probe moisture/ph/light meter and they are between 6 and 7, mostly 7.

 

[Megawattfarmer]

The plants definitely seem to be on the mend. Now that the growth is stunted what can I expect? Will they still be able to produce like the last picture on my first post? Will it just take them longer to get big? Or will they be little dwarf bushes? They are on their fifth node, but are only about 4" tall...

 

[sproutco]

Ph 7 is too high.

 

[kokua]

your lookin fine mega...they should shape up. Its' like having the flu when you where a child, should have no effect on final yeild. You can veg those plants almost infanitely, so the sky is the limit on size and shape.
What you want to do is to get the plants as healthy as possible before flower...that is the part that is most crucial to yeild. If a problem arrises in 12/12 or if the plant isn't fully healthy when you initiate flower THEN the yeild will be less. Make sense?

 

[Megawattfarmer]

- kokua
Thanks for the reassurance. I've never had a problem like this before - only two previous grows, and they were ready to flower by now... I have no problem waiting for them. I'm getting a 400W hps/mh light on Monday - only grew with a 150hps previously. I think that should get things going!
Would you advise against topping due to added stress, since they're seedlings? I topped/FIM'd the last grow from seed with very good results.

 

[CaptJamesTKirk]

The problem with those cheapie pH probe things is they give the grower a false sense of confidence and they will read about the same for a garden that is fried. It's still flying blind - but at least the light is on inside the cockpit.

Be careful

- - yeah like that's news.


they should start showing gratitude, I'd count on a couple weeks of rehab and growth - maybe three or more if you get clones. They won't do near as well if they are'nt healthey - - and they grow faster when healthy anyway


prolly a lil late to chime in, but for future concideration, I like gradual increases in pot size, small plants in big pots can be a bigger challange - - too big for me anyway. I start clones and seeds in 8 oz styro cups, then to 16 oz, and next to 1 or 2 gallon and finnaly, sometimes 3 gallon. There's an added advantage of more small plants - which gets evened up at sexing - plus you don't waste time with stragglers - well as much time.

Jumping up in pots leads to pockets of dirt with low, and no root density. - MJ roots go out and if it runs into a wall, follows the wall. Make sure those walls dont get too far away too soon and it makes a big difference in ease of care and watering.


keep growin

 

[Chronic Newfie]

The problem with those cheapie pH probe things is they give the grower a false sense of confidence and they will read about the same for a garden that is fried. It's still flying blind - but at least the light is on inside the cockpit.

Be careful

- - yeah like that's news.


they should start showing gratitude, I'd count on a couple weeks of rehab and growth - maybe three or more if you get clones. They won't do near as well if they are'nt healthey - - and they grow faster when healthy anyway


prolly a lil late to chime in, but for future concideration, I like gradual increases in pot size, small plants in big pots can be a bigger challange - - too big for me anyway. I start clones and seeds in 8 oz styro cups, then to 16 oz, and next to 1 or 2 gallon and finnaly, sometimes 3 gallon. There's an added advantage of more small plants - which gets evened up at sexing - plus you don't waste time with stragglers - well as much time.

Jumping up in pots leads to pockets of dirt with low, and no root density. - MJ roots go out and if it runs into a wall, follows the wall. Make sure those walls dont get too far away too soon and it makes a big difference in ease of care and watering.


keep growin

Wow thats awesome info. Thanks Capt. Will keep that in mind when transplanting.