Please help, im grasping at straws hemorrhaging $$

[couchlockd]

Well ive been battling what appears to be “i dunno what the fuck” for a few weeks

Plants look fine outside, bring them in, they’re steady get unhappy to the point of blue dark leaves, interveinal chlorosis, curling, yellowing, etc.

Im growing under led the first time ever3, was a successful hid grower for 20+ year’s. But since going led, i seem to look like thr most wet behind the ears newb ive ever seen. To humble myself to the level to admit to say I feel like i don’t know what the hell im doing strikes my pride and ego in the worst way possible, but logic tells me to step off My horse and im humbly asking for some direction.

Temps sre around 75-80, im also chasing vpd for the first time ever which also feels like a uphill battle. I always stuck by 55-60 rh in veg, 50 or less in flower.

I have heaters, dehum’s, ac, tons of exhaust if needed, c02 if needed, etc

Using coots mix build a soil which ive used for a long Time and build a soil 3.0 with roots lush as a base as well . Some in coots, some in 3.0

 

[Dime]

You're getting brown leaves, i'd back off on water and leave them be for a while until they dry out then gently water with a light feed,inside I keep the medium as loose as possible to avoid suffocating roots.

 

[couchlockd]

You're getting brown leaves, i'd back off on water and leave them be for a while until they dry out then gently water with a light feed,inside I keep the medium as loose as possible to avoid suffocating roots.

This is them a week earlier outside

 

[Phytoplankton]

Your VPD is fine, don't chase it. Co2 at the temps you're running have will be a waste of resources. Overall the plants look good, I don't see much of a problem. The one pic with the brown spotting could be a number of things, but if it doesn't progress I wouldn't worry about it. Moving them between sunlight and artificial light may be part of the problem too. You don't say what kind or wattage your lights are, but potentially they may need to dimmed or raised. Usually about 50% is good for veg.

 

[Lester Beans]

With LED lights you must up the Mg. Also make sure your ph is on point when watering inputs.

Foliar 1 tsp/gal (lights off) Epsom salts to quick fix your Mg issue.

Don't feel bad, when I switched to LED I had the exact same issues. The plants require a bit more nutrients than with HID. Some say higher temps. I went back to HID lighting.

 

[moose eater]

LEDs, HPS, and actual Sunlight all require different food and water uptake due to several factors, including light intensity and spectrum, as well as amount of air movement/air changes, and sometimes require related adjustments

 

[couchlockd]

Now you don't pH nothing going in to living soil, I haven't for 20 plus years.

You know what PH adjusting is going to do to that rizosphere microlife population is going to destroy it but I found out my issue it's chasing these stupid fucking BPD figures today I left my tent open went back to the old school method humidity at 55 temperatures around 78 and everything looks much much better

I put the plants back outside and this is what they look like well one sample

 

[couchlockd]

Here's what they look like after leaving the tents open overnight pulling some plants out of the tents leaving them on the floor the lights came on at 9:00am it is now 6:00 p.m.

I adjusted all controllers to not do anything other than give me a Target humidity of 55% and a Target temperature of around 78

Personally I feel when no one concerned their self with VPD, from what I'm reading online there was a lot less problems a lot of stupid phantom problems that I see are related to chasing your tail with that figure. I get it Dr Bruce bugby and all the fancy University research that's going on saying you got a concern yourself with vapor pressure deficit but here's the thing there's four online charts in all four of them at some point have a swing for certain stage of life that very by at least five to six points regarding VPD safe levels. Say for instance a flowering vapor pressure deficit versus a ceiling vapor pressure deficit can make your garden look like crap then having a 6-point difference someone's not correct right?

I remember when I first started listening the year 2000 I had built the cab in my bedroom with central air keeping my house at 70°. I had a 250 watt sodium in there or I'm sorry metal h , humidity always like around 30 and I had beautiful looking plants praying for life like reaching to the bulb begging for more never deficiency this was even like using Pro mix with advanced nutrients of all things.

Eventually I transitioned to a dual 600 watt setup ran that for about a year and a half and then I need my buddy rent to the house or he rented a house I was the grower and we had a two bedrooms in there dedicated to flowering with 5,000 watts each and we had two vegetative rooms with 2000w each. Had green Air products environmental controls. Keeping humidity at 50% and temperatures under 85.

And the weed was brutally potent and wicked.

 

[bigsur51]

 

[Lester Beans]

You have bad information about ph. It certainly won't kill anything but it certainly makes your plants healthier.

Good luck with your grow, your plants look awesome!

 

[led05]

LED energy is nearly all 400-700nm

HPS energy is 400nm- to the moon

Sun has all the goods

Think about what happens to your plants transpiration when you’ve taken away most 700+nm energy aka all radiant energy…

That’s what you’re dealing with; understanding WHY will get you to where you need to be RE how to fix shit…Think about what minerals are critical to wet / dry cycles & transpiration then the lightbulb upstairs goes off…bingo

With 20+ years growing experience you’ve got this bro !

PS: LED, DE HPS & Fluro for pure focused UVB is as good a blend as your gonna get to mimic the Sun; if you were so inclined

GL

 

[couchlockd]

I figured it out after a buddy sent ne a research paper regarding full spectrum Samsung diodes bars and boards.

I was applying hid parameters around it.

I bumped up ambient ti around 87 degrees for a lst of around 85 degrees and within a day everything looks normal again.

There is no lie about HID to LED learning curves. I could see if i came up on LED, and researched everything about em prior to set-up id had probly stumbled upon the idea of running rooms "hot on purpose".

But i just set AC to 76 and let it rip while trying to keep vpd at 1.2-1.4.

Had a fella i am now very greatful to interact with on OG call me, and he also sent link to paper i read.

Told me have you ever concerned yourself knowingly with VPD? I say no.

He says there's a joke with old school Growers about led commercial Growers and Warehouse Growers who keep PPD on the perfect low end that they grow just as much black mold as they do bud.

Told me to stick with my known parameters, 50-60 rh veg and lower in flower. Get a lil hotter see what happens as he inboxed Link

Today 9 specimens are going to 5gal pots into flower 5x5 for a few weeks veg before flip, 9 going to mother pots of 7 gal.

I'll get pics up when done, as im in the middle of reworking exhaust to dump into room and my normal exhaust that was going directly outside from each tent to just keep room in check


Each tent has its own 6 or 8" ACI exhaust.

The room will have 2 8" going out.

Tents dumping into room to recycle heat

 

[Creeperpark]

This is a beneficial thread. Thanks for posting friend.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Well ive been battling what appears to be “i dunno what the fuck” for a few weeks

Plants look fine outside, bring them in, they’re steady get unhappy to the point of blue dark leaves, interveinal chlorosis, curling, yellowing, etc.

Im growing under led the first time ever3, was a successful hid grower for 20+ year’s. But since going led, i seem to look like thr most wet behind the ears newb ive ever seen. To humble myself to the level to admit to say I feel like i don’t know what the hell im doing strikes my pride and ego in the worst way possible, but logic tells me to step off My horse and im humbly asking for some direction.

Temps sre around 75-80, im also chasing vpd for the first time ever which also feels like a uphill battle. I always stuck by 55-60 rh in veg, 50 or less in flower.

I have heaters, dehum’s, ac, tons of exhaust if needed, c02 if needed, etc

Using coots mix build a soil which ive used for a long Time and build a soil 3.0 with roots lush as a base as well . Some in coots, some in 3.0

"since going led, i seem to look like thr most wet behind the ears newb ive ever seen."

Because you have a long history of growing these plants successfully, I would however first look at what is different in this grow - the LED lights.

The most likely culprit is light stress. There is bleaching on some of the leaves, and as per below, the tips of the leaves are slightly affected.

From Growweedeasy:

Light Stress Leaf Symptoms (LEDs are Too Close)​

Here are common light stress symptoms in cannabis leaves, with pictures.

• Yellow leaves or leaf tips – Pale or bleached leaves are the most common light stress symptoms, often mistaken for a nitrogen deficiency or other nutrient deficiency. Sometimes only the tips of the leaves turn yellow at first. Not to be confused with nutrient burn, which causes brown leaf tips.

Recommendation:

Recommendation: Follow the manufacturer’s recommended distance or contact the LED company directly for guidance. I’ve been pleasantly surprised to find that most LED companies answer questions about how to best use their LED grow light. If you still can’t find any information about your specific LED model, here’s a set of basic guidelines to follow.

Small LEDs around 100-200W are usually kept about 12-18″ away.
Medium LEDs like 200-300W are usually kept about 18-24″ away.
Big LEDs from 300-600W are usually kept about 24″ or more away.

These are good general rules, but even more important is to pay attention to your cannabis plants and see what they “tell” you.

Beyond that, if necessary at all...

This could also have the same cause - light stress.

However if it isn't, the wrinkling points to a zinc lockout, and the spots point to a calcium lockout. Both being non-mobile nutrients, together they could point to a high pH.

From BuildASoil:

BuildASoil 3.0
See The Batch Soil Testing Here

BuildASoil made this amended soil recipe with the Water Only grower in mind. Based on Logan Labs soil testing we designed a soil with more everything. This 3.0 Recipe is one of our richest soils and is still be balanced enough for most all plants. The goal was a compost based soil without any dirty ingredients that would last longer and push harder. If you are used to Super Soil this will perform as you would expect. This potting soil mix has been the favorite for customers that want everything already in the soil when they open the bag. Compared to our other potting soil recipes this is our most loaded up potting mix. Excellent for flowering and full term growth.

And that is more than cannabis needs in vegging, at least until flowering starts.

I would recommend using home made fermentation of sprouted hempseeds and raw sugar (cane, beet) as the only extra thing to feed, until flowering starts.

Sprout hempseeds (available online and at bait shops) and grow them to micro-green size, then put them in a bottle filled with 1/5 of sprouted hempseeds, 1/5 of sugar, and top off right into the neck of the bottle with filtered water. Put a fermentation lock on it, filled with some water with a little hydrogen peroxide, and leave for a week at least.

The fermentation complements the organic nutrients in any soil perfectly, and makes them available to the bacteria, which feed the plants through a fascinating process called rhizophagy. Because of the sugars feeding the microbes, the roots go crazy, become fluffy, etc.

Also in vegging, a piece of clove (Eugenol) put on the top of the soil will keep the mites away.

 

[couchlockd]

Build a soil is absolutely retarded.
If you would have heard what i was told on the phone with them, you'd never link them again or listen to anything they say.


The plants turned around 100 percent almost since raising temps

That bleaching, happened outside from a foliar feed. These started outside

Those spots happened since they got sad due to metabolism issues dye to temps not assimilation nutes right, signaling was off.

Heres them after just 18 hours of higher temps

No issues on new growth

Also test plant that went back outside when i posted This 2 days ago cleared up fine, so there's no lockout or pH issues (Hanna probes also confirmed this. Also Roots busting out of pot the whole Time

Last pic was one with massive spots that haven't went necrotic yet.

Pic is after 24 hours outside

 

[couchlockd]

Not that this pertains to my last post here, but here's night time parameters since changing temp scheme

Here's the article that she'd light on the subject, no pun intended

Leaf Surface Temperature with HPS, MH, CFL and LED Grow Lights

Effects of Different Artificial Grow Lighting Technologies on Leaf Surface Temperature Table of Contents Abstract FLIR Image of a BD240-U Introduction Why does Leaf Surface Temperature (LST) Matter? What is the Ideal Leaf Surface Temperature? What Affects Leaf Surface Temperature? The Evidence...

www.blackdogled.com

 

[couchlockd]

Actually that bleach spot or streak now looking back on Thier pics From outside happened very early on. Its a CSI Humboldt sour d cross, known for some wild variegation's at times as per Caleb's plants

 

[couchlockd]

"since going led, i seem to look like thr most wet behind the ears newb ive ever seen."

Because you have a long history of growing these plants successfully, I would however first look at what is different in this grow - the LED lights.

The most likely culprit is light stress. There is bleaching on some of the leaves, and as per below, the tips of the leaves are slightly affected.

View attachment 19065574

From Growweedeasy:



Recommendation:



Beyond that, if necessary at all...

View attachment 19065575
This could also have the same cause - light stress.

However if it isn't, the wrinkling points to a zinc lockout, and the spots point to a calcium lockout. Both being non-mobile nutrients, together they could point to a high pH.

From BuildASoil:



And that is more than cannabis needs in vegging, at least until flowering starts.

I would recommend using home made fermentation of sprouted hempseeds and raw sugar (cane, beet) as the only extra thing to feed, until flowering starts.

Sprout hempseeds (available online and at bait shops) and grow them to micro-green size, then put them in a bottle filled with 1/5 of sprouted hempseeds, 1/5 of sugar, and top off right into the neck of the bottle with filtered water. Put a fermentation lock on it, filled with some water with a little hydrogen peroxide, and leave for a week at least.

The fermentation complements the organic nutrients in any soil perfectly, and makes them available to the bacteria, which feed the plants through a fascinating process called rhizophagy. Because of the sugars feeding the microbes, the roots go crazy, become fluffy, etc.

Also in vegging, a piece of clove (Eugenol) put on the top of the soil will keep the mites away.

Heres the plant that you made all the deficiency assumptions on in post


I have never pH'd any input water in living soil, its unnecessary in my 2 decade's of using it.

Just had to figure out LED rules.

If it was tox, deficiency, ph or mites it would not have fixed itself

Now according to canna, if you're soil isn't buffering pH right, there's nothing you can do to correct it to Start doing that right as a home grower in any reasons amount of time.

We feed nothing in super soil. So to pH plain water if futile.

Soil does all the work.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

I didn't say you should pH the water, however you should know the run-off, as well as whatever goes into it.

If temperature is an issue, you may want to take the pots off the ground for at least an inch - for instance by putting them on a folded crate.

Also, the reflective material may be too intense.

Clearly, there is something going on indoors that isn't going on outdoors.

 

[couchlockd]

I didn't say you should pH the water, however you should know the run-off, as well as whatever goes into it.

If temperature is an issue, you may want to take the pots off the ground for at least an inch - for instance by putting them on a folded crate.

Also, the reflective material may be too intense.

Clearly, there is something going on indoors that isn't going on outdoors.

Yes its lack of ir radiating getting leaf temps up to proper metabolism for photosynthesis.

Raising temps have solved for now, into I get some supplemental t5 in there's for a lil ir in Veg.

5x5 has 2 mars hydro ur30 ir supplement strips coming.

That's them after a full day at raised temps.

Check out the article i posted, it'll make Sense if you read it.

Aa runoff ph and ec aren't the issue. It couldn't be if outside is fine but moved in at original temps isn't then back out is fine.

That test eliminated that variable