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As of today ICMag has his own Discord server. In this Discord server you can chat, talk with eachother, listen to music, share stories and pictures...and much more. Join now and let's grow together! Join ICMag Discord here! More details in this thread here: here.
Oregonism
Active member
http://store.publiclaboratory.org/collections/spectrometry/products/foldable-mini-spectrometer
May have to get a smart phone now, just for this! Dang, trying to get on the list!
Open Source Editing and Collaboration Projects:
http://spectralworkbench.org/
C
c-ray
I just ordered a webcam..
C
c-ray
from http://web.archive.org/web/20060930034752/http://www.mosesorganic.org/broadcaster/14.4aphids.html
Why do aphids show up on a plant? It’s a plant nutrient imbalance
“Insects behavior is deliberate and designed to eliminate weak, unformed, nutritionally deficient, unbalanced plants” Dr. Arden Anderson
The turgor pressure imbalance that develops in the plant causes exudates to come to the leaf surface. Those exudates include simple sugars, free nitrogen and simple amino acids. Because the exudates are present, aphids and leafhoppers show up on a plant for a free lunch
“Insects attack only sick plants having incomplete proteins, free or fragmented nutrients which insects are able to digest” Francis Chaboussou, Paris, 1985
Aphids do not suck!!!
Aphids only feed from a plant that has a turgor pressure that forces exudates to the exterior of the leaves. The strongest muscle in the aphid is the mouthpiece that attaches to the plant.
Soybean aphid 2005 field trials - Levels of infestation are related to plant health
The following is a review of what I found in soybean and edible bean fields in three states. This analysis was done in organic soybean and edible bean fields, conventionally grown soybeans and round-up ready soybeans. This includes field tests in Wisconsin (Dane County), Illinois (Dekalb County) and Michigan (Central and the thumb area).
The population of soybean aphids varies considerably from field to field, whether it is soybeans or edible bean varieties. Populations from zero to 5000+ aphids per plant were observed in soybean and edible bean plants the week of Aug 1, 2005. The one common relationship to the levels of aphid infestation appears to be plant health. Generally, we relate plant health to Sap ph and dissolved solids (Brix).
Here are my findings:
Plant Readings Insect population
SAP ph BRIX aphid count/ plant
_________________________________
6.2 ph 9.5 0-10 aphids
_________________________________
5.8 ph 8.0 50-100 aphids
_________________________________
5.6 ph 200-500 aphids
_________________________________
5.4 ph 5.8 2000- 3500 aphids
_________________________________
5.3 ph 5.7 over 3500 aphids
As I will detail later, the healthiest bean plants will show a sap pH of 6.2-6.4 and the Brix at 12-14. The lower the sap pH, the less healthy we find the plants because we relate the lower sap pH to low cation levels (calcium, potassium, sodium and magnesium). The lower the Brix, the lower the dissolved plant solids. Note that the plants that are closest to these parameters are the ones with the fewest aphids in my field scouting trials.
How do you make plants healthy?
Biologically active soil is required to maintain healthy plants. A six to seven year soil-building program with a sustainable nutrient plan can be used to build up soil and sustain a healthy state. Healthy soil generally translates to healthy plants. It is believed that the more biologically strong the soil, the higher the level of natural disease resistance. It is believed that healthy plants have systemic acquired resistance (SAR). If stress conditions affect healthy plants, corrections can be made with a foliar spray program to compliment a soil nutrient program. A common cause of plant stress is extremes in weather (too hot, too cold, too wet, too dry).
Growers that have been doing a foliar nutrient program including fish hydrolysate, biologicals, trace mineral pack, K sulfate and calcium foliar can feel comfortable that they are going a long way to keeping insects in check. Insects (aphids, bean leaf beetles and leaf hoppers) are generally the vectors for plant diseases. Foliar feeding for plant health, for suppressing insects and suppressing pathogens and viruses all simultaneously will be very profitable.
How do we identify healthy plants?
Three methods are known to determine if a plant is healthy: pH, Brix and Electric Conductivity.
Listed below are the parameters that determine a healthy legume (soybeans, alfalfa, peanuts and green beans). When these levels are met, there should be no plant diseases and no insects on a healthy plant:
Sap pH................................. 6.2 - 6.4
Brix........................................13 - 20
Electric Conductivity (EC)...12,000-16,000
Sap pH relates to the acid/base balance. If the pH is low, say 5.5-5.8, the plant has a short fall in cations (calcium, potassium, sodium or magnesium). If the ph is high, the plant is low anions ( nitrate nitrogen, phosphates, sulfates or trace minerals).
Brix shows the dissolved solids in the plant. The higher the dissolved solids, the healthier the plant. If Brix is low, even after several hours of sunshine, some element(s) are missing in the photosynthesis factory. Ions, if present, have not been "complexed" into sugars or proteins.
Electric Conductivity – A high energy field in a plant is a natural defense for invasive forces (insects and plant pathogens) A high plant energy field is a natural defense for invasive forces of insects and plant pathogens.
Field Testing equipment
1- Testing for SAP pH
Using Litmus paper – cut open succulent plants and dip the paper on the stem. Do not use a garlic press to squeeze juice. This will give a false reading because of the chlorophyll that is placed on the paper.
Using an electronic pH meter – proposed procedure: cut leaves and stems into two-inch lengths, place in a garlic press or pliers and squeeze juice on to the eye of the meter. Read digital number.
2- Testing for Brix
It’s suggested to use a standard refractometer. Cut plants and stems and squeeze juice onto the glass. Use the chart to determine the Brix level for various species of plants
3- Testing for Electric Conductivity (EC)
Measured with the Cardy Twin EC Meter, EC indicates the level of simple ion uptake into the plant sap.
With a low Brix crop, if sap EC is too low, the elements are not being made available to the plant. If sap EC is too high, elements or ions are not being "complexed" and ions such as nitrate nitrogen may be at excessive levels.
Steps to Promoting the Healthy Plants
Step 1 Seed treatment- Mycorrhizal Fungi treatment (Myco Seed treat), Rhizobium inoculant
Step 2 Liquid plant starter program – Nutrient management plus Insect suppression
Step 3 Petiole Analysis- determine the health and deficiencies of the growing crop. Do this by July 10-15
Step 4 Foliar program-Soybeans
Recommendations – Feed at 3-6 inch tall if plants are stressed
Feed at R-1, this is key to SAR
Example of a foliar program
Soybean foliar program
2oz-3 gal Biological pack (Compost tea, AER SP1 or Liquid Bacteria)
1 gal Drammatic “ONE” Fish Plant Food
1 gal K-Sulfate
1 pt trace minerals (AgriEnergy Foundation)
8 oz Neem Blend 45 EM
3-15 gal Water
Application Rates
Organic Soybeans, Edible Bean, Green Bean Production Program
The following is information pertaining to the control of edible bean pathogens and insects. Over and beyond soil nutrition and bio-insecticides, the Dramm Liquid Fish and microbial packages are the inputs that I work with to aid in the suppression of plant pathogens and insects. For the foliar feeding of soybeans, the three key stages that I recommend foliar feeding are the third trifoliage, R1 and R 5-6 stages. These may vary on the level of infestation.
Insect suppression proposed foliar applications
Third Trifoliage
Proposed Formula-per acre application
1 gal Drammatic E (use to adjust tank mix ph to 5.8-6.0)
8 oz Neem Blend 45 EM - (must have .05 -.25% in the formula)
2 oz-3 gal Biological pack (Compost tea, SPI or Liquid Bacteria)
2-18 gal water-
optional Mycotrol O *
optional- soybean aphid or leaf hopper control: adding 2-4 oz garlic oil to the formula will reduce the aphid populations as they are moving into the area. Because aphids and leafhoppers identify plants via UV censors, the garlic oil sprayed on plants will deflect UV and insects will not be drawn to the sick or stressed plants for up to two weeks.
This mix must have a ph of 5.8-6.0 for maximum results. For best results the pH of the tank mix should be as low or slightly lower than the plant SAP pH. An excessively lower tank ph may destroy the microbial life of the foliar spray and a higher ph will reduce the uptake of the foliar application in the plant.
The R1 (early flower) stage- Foliar feeding is very beneficial because of the high demand for phosphorus. This will maintain or increase the brix levels at this time. The fish hydrolysate will improve the phosphorus demand because of the large amount of phosphorus in the foliar fish.
Proposed Formula-per acre application
1 gal Drammatic E (use to adjust tank mix ph to 5.8-6.0)
8oz Neem Blend -(must have .05 -.25% in the formula)
2 oz-3 gal Biological pack (Compost tea, AER SP1 or Liquid Bacteria)
2-18 gal water
optional- soybean aphid control or leaf hoppers: adding 2-4 oz garlic oil to the formula will reduce the aphid populations
Plant stress at R1 stage through pod fill:
Plant flowering requires large amounts of phosphorus, any plant phosphorus short fall in the plant will put the plant in stress, lower the Brix. This generally is the time that the producers will also witness the buildup of soybean aphids and leafhoppers. If the growers have used a liquid starter program (a program high in carbon including complex sugars), the aphids will generally be controlled until the later phases of plant development.
R5 to R6 stage (late pod set and early pod filling)
Proposed Formula-per acre application
1 gal Dramm ONE Liquid Fish (to adjust tank mix ph to 5.8 6.0)
8-12 oz Neem Blend 45 EM -(must have .05 -.25% in the formula)
1 gal QA Bio Special or AER SP-1
2 oz Citrex – labeled for white mold suppression in Europe
2-18 gal water
optional- soybean aphid control or leaf hoppers: adding 2-4 oz garlic oil to the formula will reduce the aphid populations
Foliar feeding for bean leaf beetle
Foliar OPTION 1- third trifoliage
Many growers have not had the insect pressure in the past to be proactive on the front end. Generally the first sign of insects is when the adult beetles begin feeding on the newly emerging soybeans. This is the prime time to suppress the advance of the beetles. Any larva that are feeding on the plant roots will pupate and emerge in July. It’s at this time that quick action must be taken.
Foliar OPTION 2- R1-R3 stage (early flowering)
The emergence of the beetle and the flowering of the soybean plants are simultaneous over that two week period in mid to late July. Without suppression of the beetles both yield loss and bean quality will be a byproduct of the insect pressure.
Product descriptions
Neem Blend 45 EM: The foliar treated leaves will absorb and therefore contain concentration of azadrachtin, the active ingredient in the botanical neem oil (Neem Blend 45 EM) for up to 15 days. I have witnessed that the chewing or sucking insects will then be reduced by up to 80% in 4-5 days. The neem oil is a growth regulator. The insects that do survive, generally, will not produce any young or mature. This includes the leaf hopper, alfalfa weevil, bean leaf beetle and aphids. From the good side, the beneficial insects are not eating the plant (herbivores) so they will not be affected according to Doug Murray, IPM Specialist, Paw Paw, Michigan.
Mycotrol-O*: The addition of Mycotrol-O to the starter program will inoculate the soil with additional Beauvaria Bassiana, a fungi that attacks insects. The unique thing about Mycotrol O is that it reproduces best in wet or moist conditions. I began using it in combination 6 years ago. The reason for adding it to my insect suppression program is that it is the first bio-insecticide that works better in wet conditions.
Neem oil, Garlic Oil, Citrex and Mycotrol O are EPA registered bio-pesticides.
Smaller scale, garden formula
Foliar nutrient package plus insect suppression
To fill 3 ½ gal back pack sprayer
2.75 gal Water
1 pt Drammatic “One”
1 pt AER SP-1
1 oz Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salt)
1 pt K-Sulfate
1 pt Chilean Nitrate
1 cup AER Organic Foundation
4 oz Neem Blend 45 EC (neem/karanja emulsified)
1 oz Citrex (Add Citrex last to the tank mix)
Note : K-Sulfate, Chilean Nitrate and Org. Trace Pack can be pre-blended
Caution: Mixing any other of the biologicals prior to application is not advised
Formulas used by Reg Destree, LaCrosse, WI 54601. [email protected] 608-785-2790
Plant Tissue Testing
Introduction:
This method of plant sap analysis is relatively new. Sap is squeezed from the fresh plant tissue and analyzed for Brix, pH and EC. Data collected can be used as a tool in fertility management. Please note that the information contained here is preliminary.
Although research continues in the area of plant sap analysis, little interpretation data is available. Over a period of time, it is recommended that a grower establish his own data, based on analysis results, fertilizer applications and crop response.
REVIEWING PLANT TISSUE TEST RESULTS
Apply the foliar spray to a test plot. After a minimum of two hours of sunshine, test the Brix of the treated plants as well as some of the untreated plants. If the test area is at least 2 Brix higher than the control area, the spray was effective and can be applied to the whole field.
This information and Chart are reprinted from Pike Agri-Labs June 2, 2006
C
c-ray
double post
This looks more complicated than hydro.... 
S
SeaMaiden
This is making me wonder about all the bull thistle and how ants farm tons of aphids on it out here. I don't know that I'd be able to get a good sap sample, and all I have is a refractometer (Brix), but it makes me very curious.
It does, however, reinforce my idea that working toward best health is the better way to deal with pests and pathogens, though I'm not sure how encompassing that method might be. I do know it takes some work, e.g. the cabbage aphids experienced last year that practically decimated my crop. Almost nothing usable, maybe 30lbs or so I'd say, and much of it had to be pickled due to discoloration.
It does, however, reinforce my idea that working toward best health is the better way to deal with pests and pathogens, though I'm not sure how encompassing that method might be. I do know it takes some work, e.g. the cabbage aphids experienced last year that practically decimated my crop. Almost nothing usable, maybe 30lbs or so I'd say, and much of it had to be pickled due to discoloration.
Oregonism
Active member
Might I ask which one you are after?
I have been looking at buying a set of wifi security cams and bundled up as 3 or 4 units. Don't know if I can take one for a project or not.....
Once you said webcam, it got me thinking about integrating with an Arduino board somehow. Basically a camera microcontroller, but set at anything you can control: temp, lighting, time, etc. Snap data using your spectrometer that is remotely tied in the greenhouse or growroom, this has me salivating......
mucho gracias
C
c-ray
logitech c270 / 20 bucks / 1280 x 768
S
SeaMaiden
C-ray, I'm putting my husband's engineering nose to the spectrometer, but I'm also curious about the papers you're depicting here vs the meter--accuracy. IME pH papers in aquatics are horrible, highly inaccurate. Same here, or are these a better quality?
i have been using genhyrdo ph drops and for the longest time i thought a ph pen would be better but its not really. drops dont have to be calibrated and once you know what color is what ph it becomes second nature.
i would be concerned about the ph test strips that are linked not being accurate if it was over a wider range. 0.2 steps in ph i would be pretty comfortable with using once you get some practice.
i would be concerned about the ph test strips that are linked not being accurate if it was over a wider range. 0.2 steps in ph i would be pretty comfortable with using once you get some practice.
C
c-ray
exactly, and those 0.2 pH steps are pretty distinct so..
Oregonism
Active member
NRCS Soil Quality Indicator: Total Organic carbon
This is an important step for me. I am working on this outside of the cannabis world and now I have to go buy a webcam! No more procrastinating.....any results?
C
c-ray
sounds like you will need to make a near infra red flashlight
I just got the webcam in the mail, should be in business soon..
I just got the webcam in the mail, should be in business soon..
C-ray- most excellent. Just went to a course with Jon Kempf, for a young man he knows more about plant systems and soil systems better then anyone else.
He is on very lucky guy to sturdy under Bruce Tanino, Arden Anderson, and the heavy hitters of the Bio-ag movement.
He did state two things
1. The work of Bruce Tainio is along the lines of Tesla, it will be 50 to a 100 years before his work will be fully realized. Leaps and bounds ahead of most. Jon mentioned they Bruces wife is compiling his works and will have a book out this year.
2. Jon in his consulting has stopped using pH sap test because he found them to not be a accurate way to test for plant health. I wish I could member exactly, so much new and exciting info that slipped through the cracks. I think it was from a mineral build up leading to a 6.4 no matter what, damn I wish I remembered. I will be getting the mp3s of the class soon and I will listen and let you know.
Timbuktu
p.s.- I love you quote Hugh is the man. If organic gardeners would say fuck NPK and worries about B, Si and Ca with a mineral rich base it would be a different world. N should come from the air not a bottle.
Do you add Boron?
Timbuktu
He is on very lucky guy to sturdy under Bruce Tanino, Arden Anderson, and the heavy hitters of the Bio-ag movement.
He did state two things
1. The work of Bruce Tainio is along the lines of Tesla, it will be 50 to a 100 years before his work will be fully realized. Leaps and bounds ahead of most. Jon mentioned they Bruces wife is compiling his works and will have a book out this year.
2. Jon in his consulting has stopped using pH sap test because he found them to not be a accurate way to test for plant health. I wish I could member exactly, so much new and exciting info that slipped through the cracks. I think it was from a mineral build up leading to a 6.4 no matter what, damn I wish I remembered. I will be getting the mp3s of the class soon and I will listen and let you know.
Timbuktu
p.s.- I love you quote Hugh is the man. If organic gardeners would say fuck NPK and worries about B, Si and Ca with a mineral rich base it would be a different world. N should come from the air not a bottle.
Do you add Boron?
Timbuktu
C
c-ray
I look forward to that book and hearing more about your workshop. Yes I use borax (10-20 ppm B in the final mix).. lately I just dissolve it in the water I use to initially wet down my compost, so that it can bond with the humalite, peat, clay etc in the heap
S
SeaMaiden
Vortex, great that you were able to make one of Kempf's talks! I see all this stuff in my ag mag and want to go, but haven't made one of them (yet!). So, I know you said you got an information overload, but do you recall, did he discuss what he now prefers to use as the metric for plant health, if it's not sap pH?
I believe he goes by brix. I could be wrong and I will know more when get and listen to the recordings again. The big talk was sugar/lipid production and brix is a measure of sugar and dissolved solids. Interesting note on refactometers is the more indistinct the line the better.
12 or higher is the number to shoot for. A straight line 12 means good sugar production but not very complex sap make up (carbohydrates, proteins, lipids). If you have a indistinct kind of wavy line it is better, more complex sugar and sap make up.
I know he is big in to Carbon Induction. He coined this term and it means providing the plant with everything it needs either through the soil or if that is lacking, foilar feeding to systemically improve the plants health to a point where it stores energy. When it stores energy it does so as lipids (fats) which when it fills its fats stores it will exude the excess and feed fungi to complex build soil humus.
But that is reliant on the fact that you have complete and excess carb/protein synthesis for the plants to exude to feed that bacteria so they can make soluble nutrients and feed them to the plants in the exact form and quantity they want.
I don't know if you are familiar with his plant health pyramid but I strive for the top. Complex trepene and aromatic compound production.(Phytoalexins) I want my plants fat.
But all this is not possible if first you don't get proper synthesis of carbohydrates and proteins.
Timbuktu
12 or higher is the number to shoot for. A straight line 12 means good sugar production but not very complex sap make up (carbohydrates, proteins, lipids). If you have a indistinct kind of wavy line it is better, more complex sugar and sap make up.
I know he is big in to Carbon Induction. He coined this term and it means providing the plant with everything it needs either through the soil or if that is lacking, foilar feeding to systemically improve the plants health to a point where it stores energy. When it stores energy it does so as lipids (fats) which when it fills its fats stores it will exude the excess and feed fungi to complex build soil humus.
But that is reliant on the fact that you have complete and excess carb/protein synthesis for the plants to exude to feed that bacteria so they can make soluble nutrients and feed them to the plants in the exact form and quantity they want.
I don't know if you are familiar with his plant health pyramid but I strive for the top. Complex trepene and aromatic compound production.(Phytoalexins) I want my plants fat.
But all this is not possible if first you don't get proper synthesis of carbohydrates and proteins.
Timbuktu
S
SeaMaiden
Hmm... I'll have to look again, but the plant health pyramid isn't ringing a bell for me right now. I read Acres, USA, but haven't purchased many additional books at this point. I've just been focusing on feeding the soil and letting the plants tell me how they feel about it, with pests or disease being one indicator of issues. I can't say I've done a fantastic job of resolving issues using that method, based on last year's lost cole crop (cabbage aphids are unlike any other pest I have ever dealt with, in any arena).
I'm familiar with the term and ideas behind carbon sequestration and utilizing both oceanic and terrestrial means to achieve that goal.
It's good to get some confirmation (bias?) that my ideas of a little foliar feeding isn't cheating. I do try to return as much plant material, especially if I've done a lot of foliars, to the earth in which it was grown.*
* I grow mostly outdoors, haven't done indoors for a couple of years now, so am focused on building up soil on our property.
I'm familiar with the term and ideas behind carbon sequestration and utilizing both oceanic and terrestrial means to achieve that goal.
It's good to get some confirmation (bias?) that my ideas of a little foliar feeding isn't cheating. I do try to return as much plant material, especially if I've done a lot of foliars, to the earth in which it was grown.*
* I grow mostly outdoors, haven't done indoors for a couple of years now, so am focused on building up soil on our property.
