plant sap pH 6.4

[Microbeman]

The way science generally works is someone presents a theory and others try to disprove it. On you bubba. Or you are free to ignore it also. In that case what are you doing in this thread

I will be gone for a week.

That is not how science works. Someone has a hypothesis then develops a theory through properly conducted trials/experiments which others can replicate. When it has been replicated a number of times, it is a standing theory unless disproven. If it continues to be held up through replication it often becomes an accepted fact.

In this thread, I do not believe even the theory has been properly presented, however I always stand to be incorrect.

luvingly~~bubba

 

[ct guy2]

MM is correct. If this idea had scientific validity, then there would be a methodology that would allow for replication. This is especially true on the testing side. Why would anyone get a lab test on their crop if they had no idea how the test was being conducted? Every testing lab in the world that I've seen lists the types of tests they conduct and you can research the protocol if interested. This also allows for consistent interpretation of test results. So it doesn't matter if the test is being conducted in Africa or Alaska, in theory the results would be the same.

MM isn't the one presenting an idea. He is asking for scientific data or information to support the pH concept and products that have been put forth in this thread. At least that's how I read it. That would put the burden of proof on the person claiming insect resistance at a certain pH or any of the other claims or products that have been promoted thus far.

 

[Bulldog420]

MM is right.

I feel, (my opinion only) Milky and BYF really never produce the science from AEA, only the same catch phrases. Even Milky has said he is skeptical of some of the science,

So John says seeing the soil test numbers for a green house mix will confuse me cause it does not behave like soil. I ain't having that. Gary is in town this week and we are gonna talk. But if they think I won't send it to logan they are wrong

I have also heard both of them say things like, "I wont post anymore" or "I wont recommend any more products" when questioned about these things.

Who knows, maybe they do and I am too dumb to understand. Always a possibility.

Now the flip side of the coin....... I believe that soil tests, sap tests, tissue tests, and organic fertilizer are the wave of the future. I also believe that Albrect is correct in his soil ratio and mineral balancing theories. I also believe AEA believes these same things and are helping me down this path. Is the "science" proven, no. Is my garden 100% healthier since I started down this path, yes. Proof is in the pudding for me, the fudge jello pudding, soooo good.

 

[Avenger]

Smaller sized particles are easier for microbes to consume, which in turn make them more soluble. Same amount of matter, more available surface area.

Is it accurate to say that soil microbes consume inorganic mineral compounds?
We are not discussing chemoautotrophs when we talk about soil microbes, correct?

It is my understanding that soil microbes help to solubilize inorganic mineral compounds much in the same way plants do, by the chemical reaction of their exudates with the surface of the mineral compound.

regards,

 

[Pangea]

It is my understanding that soil microbes help to solubilize inorganic mineral compounds much in the same way plants do, by the chemical reaction of their exudates with the surface of the mineral compound.

This to me fits the definition, not just plants and microbes, but many insects as well!

 

[milkyjoe]

There are thousands of plants that get there sap pH measured weekly. Nutri tech, aea and other companies do it routinely. Not one has found disease on a plant that measures 6.4...not one.

If you want more read phd Tom Dykstra from the u of florida.

If you still don't believe it don't worry about it. That is your choice.

I use zero so called ipm. Just me though. I eat my veggies off the vine without washing them...do you?

A lot of real farmers measure income acre by acre. They quickly know what walks and what talks. Any of you naysayers do that? If so please post your excel spread sheets

 

[Backyard Farmer]

MM is right.

I feel, (my opinion only) Milky and BYF really never produce the science from AEA, only the same catch phrases. Even Milky has said he is skeptical of some of the science,
It isn't AEA or any ones science. It's the basics of plant physiology and an understanding of those systems, enzyme systems hormone interactions... And how to control them with nutrition...again,must basic plant science,

I have also heard both of them say things like, "I wont post anymore" or "I wont recommend any more products" when questioned about these things.

It's extremly frustrating to deal with what you call questioning and I would call trolling because we are speaking from experience and field based trial on Ag crops we adapted over to apply to cannabis and even cannabis studies that you can research the papers and read yourself,,

Who knows, maybe they do and I am too dumb to understand. Always a possibility.

Now the flip side of the coin....... I believe that soil tests, sap tests, tissue tests, and organic fertilizer are the wave of the future. I also believe that Albrect is correct in his soil ratio and mineral balancing theories. I also believe AEA believes these same things and are helping me down this path. Is the "science" proven, no. Is my garden 100% healthier since I started down this path, yes. Proof is in the pudding for me, the fudge jello pudding, soooo good.

There is no magic code book that requires a decoder ring, simple plant science, certain elements trigger certain responses in the plant ... Controlling how that all works is the crus of it..

 

[Bulldog420]

Call it trolling if you want, if you don't have the answers then you are a charlatan pretending to be on the cutting edge. Which is being proven time and time again all over the boards. BYF needs to learn some manners. Sorry for the sharp response but you know I don't put up with your pussy fart insults byf.

 

[BurnOne]

Sorry for the sharp response but you know I don't put up with your pussy fart insults byf.

That's about enough.
Burn1

 

[milkyjoe]

Is it accurate to say that soil microbes consume inorganic mineral compounds?
We are not discussing chemoautotrophs when we talk about soil microbes, correct?

It is my understanding that soil microbes help to solubilize inorganic mineral compounds much in the same way plants do, by the chemical reaction of their exudates with the surface of the mineral compound.

regards,[/QUOT

how do soil microbes build cell structures that contain Ca, Mg, etc if they do not consume minerals from the soil? Honest question...you know I respect you bro

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Call it trolling if you want, if you don't have the answers then you are a charlatan pretending to be on the cutting edge. Which is being proven time and time again all over the boards. BYF needs to learn some manners. Sorry for the sharp response but you know I don't put up with your pussy fart insults byf.

What answers do you want ? Maybe we are just missing the question... Exactly why every product works? How they're milled down to nano sizes? Why each product consists of the ingredients it does ?

Or do you want information you don't need ? Like what was making rejuvenate explode ? Or what keeps pht p from separating ?

There's a difference. The former , be glad to explain yet again. All the Aea products are a carefully selected collection of ingredients, yes they may be simple but all are chosen for a reason.

They are combined together in certain ratios with one another to become extremely effective.

Let's take PhotoMag for example. The product increases energy in plants. How? Magnesium , sulfur , cobalt , sugars , sea water... The amounts of each blended together in PhotoMag are PROVEN to drive photosynthesis...this is because all the elements in the product help to activate the plants natural enzyme processes and even speed up the conversion of no3 to protein thru enzymes,,,

The latter, literally can not talk about.

I missed any where that I insulted any one and responses like yours are the exact type of trolling that drop milky and myself out of the discussion.

 

[BurnOne]

I missed any where that I insulted any one and responses like yours are the exact type of trolling that drop milky and myself out of the discussion.

Nobody should drop out of the discussion. I'll keep an eye on things here. A good discussion or even a civil debate is fine. But name calling is against the rules and will not be tolerated in this forum. It's childish.
Burn1

 

[c-ray]

isn't there moly in the photomag too? I seem to remember John saying that in the bionutrient conference..

 

[Backyard Farmer]

Yes. Sodium molybdate

 

[milkyjoe]

It is the mineral backbone of the nitrate reductase enzyme.

 

[c-ray]

some words of wisdom from the king of all pimps

from http://www.brixman.com/REAMS/agnotes.htm

Dr. Reams' Basic Agricultural Concepts

Please note that not all of the following ag rules are fully accepted by either academia or the toxic chemical industry.

1. Carbon is the governor of moisture. One part carbon will hold four parts water.

2. The more carbon in a seed, the quicker it will sprout.

3. Manganese is the element of life. It brings the electrical charge into the seed.

4. All elements in a molecular structure are the same size under the same temperature and pressure.

5. The center core of an element tells whether it is an anion or a cation.

6. Nature will follow the line of least resistance.

7. The greater the density of the soil without humus, the greater the specific gravity of the soil.

8. The lesser the density of soil nutrients, the smaller the yields.

9. The greater the density of soil nutrients, the greater the yields.

10. The process of osmosis is not limited by time.

11. The less time it takes to grow something, the better the quality.

12. The higher the sugar and mineral content of plants and trees, the lower the freezing point.

13. Top quality produce will not rot, but it will dehydrate.

14. All organic fertilizers are cationic.

15. Plants live off the loss of energy from the elements during the synchronization of these elements in the soil.

16. See everything you look at.

17. Like things attract each other.

18. For every cause there is an effect.

19. Phosphate controls the sugar content of a product.

20. The higher the phosphate content of a soil, the higher the sugar content of the crop. The higher the sugar content, the higher the mineral content. The higher the mineral content, the greater the specific gravity of a given bushel, box, bale, etc. The greater the specific gravity of the product, the healthier the animal.

21. All elements, except nitrogen, go into the plant in the phosphate form.

22. The ratio of all crops (except grasses) for phosphate and potash in the soil is two parts phosphate to one part potash (2 P2O5 to 1 K2O). If the soil report is actual phosphorous and potassium, then the ratio is 1:1.

23. The ratio for all grasses is four parts phosphate to one part potash (4 P2O5 to 1 K2O). Again, if working with actual P and K, then the ratio is 2:1.

24. Potash determines the caliber of the stalk and leaves, the size of the fruit, and the number of the fruit which set on the trees.

25. Nitrogen is the major electrolyte in the soil.

26. Nitrogen is the sun in every molecule.

27. Only that plant food which is soluble in water is available to the plant.

28. Cationic substances go down.

29. Anionic substances go up.

30. The higher the sugar content, the better antenna plants form to get more nutrients from the air.

NOTES: These rules are published by Dr. Dan Skow in his Mainline Farming For Century 21

welcome to the future

 

[Avenger]

chemoheterotroph soil microbes

chemoheterotroph soil microbes

Is it accurate to say that soil microbes consume inorganic mineral compounds?
We are not discussing chemoautotrophs when we talk about soil microbes, correct?

It is my understanding that soil microbes help to solubilize inorganic mineral compounds much in the same way plants do, by the chemical reaction of their exudates with the surface of the mineral compound.

regards,

how do soil microbes build cell structures that contain Ca, Mg, etc if they do not consume minerals from the soil? Honest question...you know I respect you bro

I could be wrong, of course, but the way I understand it:

Saprobe micro-organisms consume organic matter(dead plants, animals, other microbes) and absorb essential nutrients from the soil solution. Soluble ionic nutrients.

Parasites get some from the host.

•Saprophytic Bacteria: These bacteria obtain their nutritional requirements from dead organic matter. They breakdown the complex organic matter into simple soluble form by secreting exogenous enzymes. Subsequently they absorb the simple nutrients and assimilate them, during which they release energy. These bacteria have a significant role in the ecosystem, functioning as decomposers.

 

[Pangea]

]Is it accurate to say that soil microbes consume inorganic mineral compounds?[/B]
We are not discussing chemoautotrophs when we talk about soil microbes, correct?

It is my understanding that soil microbes help to solubilize inorganic mineral compounds much in the same way plants do, by the chemical reaction of their exudates with the surface of the mineral compound.

regards,

I could be wrong, of course, but the way I understand it:

Saprobe micro-organisms consume organic matter(dead plants, animals, other microbes) and absorb essential nutrients from the soil solution. Soluble ionic nutrients.

Parasites get some from the host.

So you agree, consume is an appropriate word to describe it, no?

 

[milkyjoe]

So they basically solubalize rocks with their exudates and then drink the ionic solution...kinda like gatorade, or I guess mollasses would be available to them that same wat. Along with consuming dead stuff...do they solubalize the dead stuff first? Plus there are bacteria that can fix N directly from the the atmosphere like Azotobacter so they do not need a protein source at all.

The real question is can the plant also take up those exudates which also must contain minerals. I guess I am wondering if those exudates don't behave like humic acids capable of holding both anions or cations. And whether those exudates have a charge of there own.

What about myco fungi...do their exudates go directly into the root they are infecting? And do they get their sugar directly from that root? I never actually pondered that...but that would be an interesting relationship.

 

[Avenger]

So you agree, consume is an appropriate word to describe it, no?

yes, I can agree with you on that now.

Would you agree with the following statement?

Soil microbes digest inorganic mineral compounds by way of their exudates chemical reaction with the surface of the compound, thus freeing the ions for ingestion by microbes, plants and animals.