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Plant Problem, Please Help!

Cat Jockey

Member
I was doing some searching online for pictures that were similar to mine and I saw someone who had wind burn on some of the leaves, they looked very similar. Not an answer for the purple stems but I did have the fan blowing on the really damaged plant more than the others. I have moved the stream of air above the plants now, it still moves the plants around, just indirectly now.

I'm rolling with a P defciency, spurred on by a chemical mishap in your nutrient solution. pH Down and Up, used like you were, especially in a relatively small solution (don't know how many gallons you have), can absolutely trash the solution to the point you start seeing things like a quick, severe P def. pH down is phosphoric acid (most is, at least), so it may sound counter-intuitive as you are adding more P with it, but with pH Up and Down, you are actually precipitating out some of the nutrients of the solution, and they end up sitting on the bottom of yer res, in solid form, completely unusable to your girls.

As far as that Gerber water, the website said they do add some minerals for taste. Probably not much, but who knows what. If you meant you added cal/mag to the Gerber water, is that because the nutrient mfg recommended that with RO water, or because you have read that you need to do that with RO water on the weed forums.

If the latter, I obviously have a different opinion on the need for Cal/Mag just because you have RO water. But, again, I don't know your nutes, so maybe they are designed to work with tap water, with lower Ca and Mg levels overall.

I don't know what that mfgs. Common is, but if it isn't the micro and they say to add it first, it is some additive then, and you should probably follow that direction and micro next. Regarding the micro, ALWAYS before grow or bloom nutes. If you add the micro after the bloom or grow, you get some of the chemistry, precipitating out of nutrient type bullshit.

Another thing that jumped out at me is the fact you are having to adjust the pH more than once per day. In a healthy system and reservoir, your pH should rise, gradually and predictable over the course of days, not swings by the hour. Generally, the first thing I look for when this is going on is something growing, like bacteria, algae, in your res or rootzone. Your roots look pretty clean and you have a chiller, though.

However, a chemically jacked up nute solution will do that, so I think that is the reason for that.

Looks like you have in plain water? If so and still, run some plain water, by hand, like a glass full, through each rockwool cube to flush all of that shit outta there.

The way you go forward is with a fresh res, following those mixing guidelines. Be judicious with your use of pH down (I personally won't use a nutrient regime that requires it). You shouldn't have to adjust it multiple times per day, or even daily. With a fresh and healthy res, it will take a few days for them to recover. All you can do is stop any further damage. Even with a fresh res tonight or tomorrow morning, you still might see some more necrosis on the leaves from the process already starting.

If you do all of that, and it keeps getting worse, throw another pic up. Don't blindly accept all you read on the weed forums about Cal/Mag, optimal pH, and every strain needing a different mix - that is why I linked to that post and those pics showing a whole bunch 'o strains in different systems, lights and gardens, all on the same nute regiment, which for those grows was GH 3-Part with Dutch Master's Zone as the base mix. Worked pretty damn good - don't be afraid to throw away your pH down and give that mix a shot at some point in the future. ;) It is a pretty solid base to then add to and easy as hell to work with, doesn't need more money spent on silly things like bottles of Cal/Mag, etc. Use RO water with it, as well.

Best 'o luck ...
 
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

sounds like a P deficiency but the pattern on the leaves doesn't. it started at the tips like nute burn does and spread from there. purpling is also a sign of cold temps. I noticed your rez is between 62-65F with your chiller. have you tried raising it a few degrees so it doesn't get so cold or fluctuate that much? root zone temps should be steady along the same lines they tell you not to feed your plants cold water. most every info source says 68 minimum and no more than 70 for pathogen free.
 
Thanks D,

I will adjust res temp. I had it at 68 but I read somewhere that 65 was more appropriate. For the most part, the Rez temps only move up and down a few tenths of a degree.
 
Hey Smith,

Thanks for the advice. In fact, the first day I put the nute mix in the res I noticed it got cloudy from bacteria growth. I quickly added h202 and the problem immediately subsided. One of the points of keep the water so cool was to keep from having to add h202 to the water. I'll figure it out.

By the way, I said I have never put PH up and PH dn in the same reservoir. I am quite aware that it becomes caustic.

I couldn't agree more that my PH is having to be adjusted too often. I think I'm going to try and flush the res before I add new nute mix this time.
 

Cat Jockey

Member
Hey Smith,
In fact, the first day I put the nute mix in the res I noticed it got cloudy from bacteria growth.

I would be very surprised if you had a mass bacteria explosion, like that. That cloudiness you saw was very likely some of that 'precipitating out of nutrients' I talked about, with the H202 just adding to the chemical process when it 'got rid of the cloud'.

Here is a page with some of the precipitation stuff I am talking about:

http://www.flairform.com/hints/dosing_procedures_nutrients.htm

And again, your plants are telling me that your nutrient solution is jacked, chemically. Not just the apparent P deficiency, but their overall shape, form and vigor.

I quickly added h202 and the problem immediately subsided. One of the points of keep the water so cool was to keep from having to add h202 to the water. I'll figure it out.
I'm not a fan of H202. H2O2 is incredibly unstable and does not stay in your system very long - I consider it a waste of money because of its unstability. There are much better products for the root zone. I mentioned I like Dutch Master's Zone as a rootzone conditioner. Unlike H202, the Zone actually stays in the solution - H202 is not at all stable. For any rootzone growth, like pythium, I use Physan 20 to disinfect (can run it on plants), or to disinfect your system between runs.

I couldn't agree more that my PH is having to be adjusted too often. I think I'm going to try and flush the res before I add new nute mix this time.
Make sure you flush yer girls with plain water through the rockwool. I'll shut up now, but I'm fairly convinced that your P deficiency your plants are showing is directly related to the mixing procedures and multiple times/day pH Down usage.

I personally, in all of the thousands upon thousands of gallons of nutrient solution I have mixed up over the years, believe the two things most likely to swing your pH up that fast is a growth, like root rot, or a chemically jacked up solution.

I saw 'chiller' and didn't look any further, but it wouldn't hurt to bring the temps up closer to 68°F, as mentioned. The true danger zone starts at about 77°F, not 71°F though. That's where pythium (root rot) becomes an issue.

I'm done babbling in your thread, sounding like a know-it-all, lol. Everyone always thinks they're right - I'm no exception. I'm not arrogant about it, but I've grown for a couple decades, have grown probably 80 different strains and about the only grow system I haven't used is pure aeroponics, and have been sought out by large commercial medical grows to consult.

I'd listen to me. ;)

If you were a friend of mine, I would really push you to switch nutrients next grow, and completely eliminate the use of pH adjusters from your regime. And I always suggest new hydro growers run GH 3-Part plus Dutch Master's zone as a root conditioner, most definitely in DWC/RDWC, and something like Kool Bloom for a flowering. With RO water. You can build off of it (additives for aromas, flavors, etc.), but it does a pretty damn good job as is. It is not that GH are 'beginner' nutes, rather they are stable, consistent and a whole bunch 'o people have/do use them, so there is mucho info around on them if you have questions. And, when mixed up, GH nutes start at the right pH for Sweet Lady Jane hydro plants.

Best 'O Luck. Use that pH Down as sparingly as possible. I get bummed when I see first time growers having issues, but, there is a learning curve to everything. Hang in there. It ain't rocket science, but there are a few critical things to know when growing hydro. And there is plenty of incorrect info floating around the Internet Echo Chamber weed forums. And at this point, all you can really do is provide a new nutrient solution to the system that is stable, and then ... hurry up and wait. It'll take a few days for them to come around, and as I mentioned, some new necrosis might appear in the meantime from the process that has already started.
 

Cat Jockey

Member
Since I mentioned it, I had to do some diggin'. Say hello to your bloombox, first generation. AKA, NewGanjaBoy's stealth cab:

NGB1.jpg

He designed it so a 35" TV cardboard box fit over it, in case he needed to completely hide it. Those are bonsai mothers on the left and the ballasts, fan, wiring, etc. is in the upper left, above the moms. He had a 150 Watt HPS, and he called it SWC, Shallow water culture, 'cause the rubbermaid tub wasn't that deep. Obviously, he vegged and flowered on the right.

Just thought I'd throw that up for ya ...
 
D

DoubleDDsNuggs

Dutch Master's Zone is amazing and with your system would be advisable. GH 3 part is great, one of a few who include full micronutrients, and people grow killer buds with it. you can find a few recipes too as catjockey mentioned. there is a ton of misinformation online but most basic skills have information that is easily accessible on hydroponic growing websites usually marketed for veggies.

I hope you figure it out! I'm kinda curious as well. catjockey is probably right with the nutes not being mixed correctly. you gotta stir it up well between each bottle and wait a bit too. I heard you can actually see it happening when little white specks form but I've yet to witness it. I started with GH 3 part and had trouble until I bought a two part. the ingredients used in a 3 part are different from what they use in a 2 part and 3 part systems are supposedly better quality; supposedly lol. since they have to mix the 3 bottle into 2 bottles, some of the ingredients can't be in the same bottle together so they use different forms of the ingredients so there isn't as much volatility. they are lesser grade and that is why most people suggest using a 3 part over a 2 part. one parts are supposed to be the worst quality ingredients but it's all whose opinion it is. there are a lot of two part systems that have amazing results. I like mine but when I'm done using it, I'm going to go back to GH or maybe try a round of Canna. I think the best nutrient is the one you have the best success with.
 
Dutch Master's Zone is amazing and with your system would be advisable. GH 3 part is great, one of a few who include full micronutrients, and people grow killer buds with it. you can find a few recipes too as catjockey mentioned. there is a ton of misinformation online but most basic skills have information that is easily accessible on hydroponic growing websites usually marketed for veggies.

I hope you figure it out! I'm kinda curious as well. catjockey is probably right with the nutes not being mixed correctly. you gotta stir it up well between each bottle and wait a bit too. I heard you can actually see it happening when little white specks form but I've yet to witness it. I started with GH 3 part and had trouble until I bought a two part. the ingredients used in a 3 part are different from what they use in a 2 part and 3 part systems are supposedly better quality; supposedly lol. since they have to mix the 3 bottle into 2 bottles, some of the ingredients can't be in the same bottle together so they use different forms of the ingredients so there isn't as much volatility. they are lesser grade and that is why most people suggest using a 3 part over a 2 part. one parts are supposed to be the worst quality ingredients but it's all whose opinion it is. there are a lot of two part systems that have amazing results. I like mine but when I'm done using it, I'm going to go back to GH or maybe try a round of Canna. I think the best nutrient is the one you have the best success with.


Well, for now, I'm going to try and figure out the nutrients I already paid for. I've got a lot of them, plus, many people have had great success with these nutes so I figure its more me than them (nutes). I really appreciate the advice from both of you, especially in regards to spending more time mixing each part before adding the next. I always add them in the order they suggest and stir in-between each, but once I start adding things like Cal/Mag, Superthrive, RapidStart, I have no idea how to add them or in what order? :-/

I'm really confused about one thing you said Smith, how is the water supposed to stay at a PH below 7.0 when it is being aerated? Everything I learned in chemistry tells me that it should be trying to creep back toward Neutral. Once again, I'm quite new to this.

I bought something called AquaShield before you mentioned the GH Zone product. I haven't tried AquaShield because I heard it wasn't necessary if you had water temps in the 60's. Clearly I was wrong. I'm going to give it a shot on my next water change.

Unfortunately, flushing the plants isn't as easy as it sounds. When I put the 3" rockwool in the plasic sleeves I had to compress them some (I realize how incredibly stupid that was now) and now they don't drain properly. I have to be very careful watering them so as to not water log the root ball. So, watering anymore than every three to four days is overwatering. However, today or tomorrow I will likely have to water them so I will have a chance to do a nice flush of the plants, tank, water chiller and hoses. This way I can give the mixing of the new nutes a little more care.

I tried using coffee straws with tiny holes in them, pushed through the rockwool to try and help drain them. It works in California on the sides of the hills that have mud slides, so I figured it would work here, however I saw no noticeable difference. :-/

Also, I went ahead and turned the water chiller up to 68 degrees.

Thanks again guys

- Bird
 

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