Plant Number Question - Pennsylvania

[79towncar]

Sometimes taking a plea deal is all you have.. They offer plea deals even when they have smoking guns sometimes.. If you can get out of a mandatory minimum it's in your best interests to take a deal.. Every deal dosen't always go for the prosecution.. That's a bad statement.. Usually the whole reason they offer a deal is because they don't want to go to trial.. It would be better for the court to get a conviction of the greatest crime.. So why would they offer a plea to a lesser charge?? They offer pleas all the time.. If you are busted with plants growing in your house you are going to get convicted.. Unless you have a shot at a faulty warrant or illegal search or something extreme like that.. When caught red handed a plea is always the best route.. Yea if your innocent of coarse take it to trial.. If you have any chance of beating the case then take it to trial.. But if the evidence against you is overwhelming then take the plea.. Any attorney will agree with that statement.. I doubt you could of beat every charge... If that were true your attorney would have pushed you to plead not guilty and go to trial.. I imagion the evidence against you was overwhelming and he said "take the deal." You ever see that HBO special on The Latin Kings??? They had the leader 'King Tone" on tape video tape selling crack.. It was his 3rd strike and they still gave him a plea deal.... So pleas do happen even when they have a smoking gun...

 

[ourcee]

So pleas do happen even when they have a smoking gun...

why make it easier for them then?

nah I had a public pretender, young dumb and broke, hey shit hits the fan sometimes.

why would they have you plead to a lesser charge? because you might beat it in court.

You dont even HAVE to beat it, just dont get a unanimous 'guilty'... it is NOT black and white in the courtroom people, the way you say something is probably more important than what you say.

Pleading to a lesser charge is kinda like their way of saying "look, we can take this to court and drag it out, screw with your time, screw with ours, or we can make it quick and painless, look we got the smoking gun on this charge, might as well just take the rap for that and we'll drop the rest"

if they are vigorously trying for a plea deal, it means the case is weak, why else would they push it?

obviously everybody cant get out of everything, if ya did some shit and there is NO way out, might have to face the music, I'm just tryin to keep ya from tryin to "play nice" and end up sittin' in a box longer than need be. The prosecutor doesn't care how nice you are.


btw, is crack possession with intent even a strike-able offense? Its so funny when people think that just because someone gets in trouble 3 times its auto 3 strikes rule.... not so. (not saying thats you sayin that, its just theres certain crimes that are strike-able, others arent)

 

[79towncar]

All serious felonies could be strikable. DEpending on the interpretation of the law many felonies can be considered strikes.. But in some states any felony can be a 3rd strike if the 1st 2 were violent.. A plea don't just happen because the prosecution thinks you have a chance in court.. Even if they have you red handed.. They sometimes agree to lower the charges in exchange of a guilty plea.. Most of the time everybody just wants to avoid trial.. Unless the defense has a very strong case usually there never is a trial.. Because usually when somebody is arrested the evidence against the defense is overwhelming.. Taking a plea is not making it easier on them... It's making it easy on yourself when you are caught... Once you go to trial that plea isn't comming back.. So if it's between 5 years mandatory on a trial conviction and only 3 years on a plea, 9 out of 10 times people will take the plea.. They aren't going to bluff and say they have a smoking gun when they don't.. That dosen't make sense because there is full disclosure during a trial.. So it would come out.. A good attorney would never bite on that.. If they don't have enough they won't even bother charging you.. If you in court in the 1st place your in trouble.. Obviously if you think there's a good chance of beating the charges you will take it to trial.. Other then that people always take the plea.. Murder trials go to plea all the time..

 

[Pythagllio]

this is how I look at it, I can take a plea, give them the easy way out, and just admit it. OR I can make them PROVE beyond ANY AND ALL reasonable doubt (hung jurys are awesome) that I am GUILTY WITHOUT QUESTION of the charge. Cant say "intent to distribute" if all you have is plant #'s, no scales? no bags? NOTHING indicating sales? so how would a jury convict you on that charge? There is ZERO evidence other than the number of plants.

By passing a per se law that includes that number of plants or by weight. Actual intent is irrelevant.

btw, is crack possession with intent even a strike-able offense? Its so funny when people think that just because someone gets in trouble 3 times its auto 3 strikes rule.... not so.

That depends on the state as not all states are the same. In NC it would count as a 'strike', but they don't get to violation until the 4th offense. Lots of states only count felonies, any felonies.

 

[ourcee]

All serious felonies could be strikable.

last i checked the whole 3 strikes thing is 25 to life for your 3rd. in Cali....

cali for sure but, no this is wrong, I had 9 serious felonies, I dont count cultivation as one of them lol. Not one of them was strikeable in my case.
for instance:
residential burglary in CA is a strikeable offense, its a big deal
commercial burglary in CA is NOT a strikeable offense.

usually violent ones or ones where violence is a common problem, i.e. residential burglaries, are ones that are strikeable.

DEpending on the interpretation of the law many felonies can be considered strikes..

negatory, its clearly spelled out what can or can not give you a strike

A plea don't just happen because the prosecution thinks you have a chance in court.. Even if they have you red handed.. They sometimes agree to lower the charges in exchange of a guilty plea..

it gets them a GUARANTEED guilty, so of course they might drop some, its called baiting you.

Most of the time everybody just wants to avoid trial.. Unless the defense has a very strong case usually there never is a trial.. Because usually when somebody is arrested the evidence against the defense is overwhelming..

OR SO THEY THINK. Do you think any LEO will actually say "oh well the case we have so far is kinda weak, we have a few holes to work on" of course they arent they are going to say "i already know the answers to the questions i'm gonna ask you, so you might as well tell me"

if they know then theres no point in asking, its all psychology, hang out around cops and you see that they use it subconsciously ALL THE TIME, DAY IN, DAY OUT.

Taking a plea is not making it easier on them... It's making it easy on yourself when you are caught... Once you go to trial that plea isn't comming back.. So if it's between 5 years mandatory on a trial conviction and only 3 years on a plea, 9 out of 10 times people will take the plea

actually its making it leaps and bounds easier than them, but I see what you mean. Just so you know, prosecutors, depending on the case, will offer MANY deals. Its not just "one deal, take it or leave it", I PROMISE you that.
and if you go to trial and get a not guilty you avoid the time all together!

dont tell me you think every single person on trial is guilty,
dont tell me guilty people never get off the hook.
it happens.

9 out of 10 people take the plea because its their first time in the system, they are scared and dont know what the fuck to expect or what to do. They figure they are already caught, might as well take the easy way out now.

if only they knew

They aren't going to bluff and say they have a smoking gun when they don't..

lol, yes, they will. They do it every day.

That dosen't make sense because there is full disclosure during a trial.. So it would come out.. A good attorney would never bite on that.. If they don't have enough they won't even bother charging you..

yeah, it'll come out DURING THE TRIAL. If they can scare you into signing a plea, there is no trial to prove a damn thing. smoking gun or not. If they have an idea of what you are up to, but not the full picture, they can throw the full charge at you, if you plea, win for them, if you take it to trial, they can try to prove it, a probable win, or they could charge you, you can plea, and then they are sittin pretty after winnin a case without needing to do much other than review a police report.

If you in court in the 1st place your in trouble.. Obviously if you think there's a good chance of beating the charges you will take it to trial.. Other then that people always take the plea.. Murder trials go to plea all the time..

people always take the plea because they think of it as the easy way out, its 'riskier' to go to trial, however if EVERY defendant took their case to trial, the judicial system couldn't POSSIBLY come anywhere even close to handling the workload.

Murder trials dont go to plea. A defendant in a murder trial may plead out yes. however that is FAR from accepting a deal that was offered in the get go by the prosecution.

if there is a trial, a jury, yadda yadda the whole thing... there has already been an offer, and its already been rejected.

have you ever actually been in the system? not just had friends or watched the wire or something, but been through it yourself?



this is obviously no "gun while slangin" type incident by any means but just an example of what I mean.

I got stopped by some cops once, got pulled over for a simple modified exhaust. It was 4/20 and of course the car stunk to high hell(go GDP!). They found the 1/2 ounce and pipe, gave me my ticket (this is in CA so its different I know) and I was on my way.
I have a buddy who is the type that thinks there is no ifs ands or buts about it, if a cop pulled that jar out of my backpack and I said it was mine there was no way I was gonna get off without a guilty possession charge.

Well I did.




this is all circumstantial, every single case is different, you might be fucked with no lube and there is no way fighting it will help you.

In my legal experience (which is far too much) MOST people have a LOT to gain from fighting their case and making the prosecution work their ass off.



side note: regarding my prior experience, I know some friends of friends that are LEO. They dont know anything about my little hobbies as I look probably as far from a stoner as possible (if I want to ). however one of them actually dealt with my case. Not directly but indirectly.

I was told that there were "a few holes in the report" and "the case isnt looking that strong" (this is my possession one mind you. a "rolled through the stop sign" kind of thing in CA) by this cop.

do you think the arresting ones would have told me that?

ever?

hell no.

 

[79towncar]

I'm not gonna argue with you cuz.. There's documented cases where man were charged with life for shoplifting.. That was a minor offence but it was his 3rd strike. Read more.... Here is one from Cali.. Since your using there style..

Some unusual scenarios have arisen, particularly in California — the state punishes shoplifting and similar crimes involving over $500 in property as felony petty theft if the person who committed the crime has a prior conviction for any form of theft, including robbery or burglary. As a result, some defendants have been given sentences of 25 YEARS TO LIFE in prison for such crimes as SHOPLIFTING GOLF CLUBS!!!(Gary Ewing, previous strikes for burglary and robbery with a knife), nine videotapes (Leandro Andrade, received double sentence of 25 year-to-life for 2 counts of shoplifting), or, along with a violent assault, a slice of pepperoni pizza from a group of children (Jerry Dewayne Williams, four previous non-violent felonies, sentence later reduced to six years). In one particularly notorious case, Kevin Weber was sentenced to 26 years to life for the crime of stealing four chocolate chip cookies (previous strikes of burglary and assault with a deadly weapon
(Wikipedia)

You see those were all in Cali and the defendants got 25 to life for pety felonies..

So don't tell me the laws are clear.. ? They are far from it. AND ALL ARE VERY DIFFERENT STATE-TO-STATE, Your just picking a fight.. Forget Cali law.. I'm talking East coast laws. 3 strike laws here.. I've had soo many people through the system and been through it tons of times. I know alot about law. Not just showing up to court because I was stupid enough to get caught. I know top attorneys in the New York Area and they all would agree with me.. WHEN THE EVIDENCE IS OVERWHELMING TAKE THE DEAL UNLESS YOU HAVE 100% CHANCE OF BEATING THE CASE.. I don't know why you keep argueing with me about this.. If you waste the courts time and take it to trial over here your most likely gonna get convicted of the maximum.. An when you are guilty, why not take the plea?? That's why everybody takes the deal.. Here the prosecution dosen't bluf because A GOOD ATTORNEY will see right throught it. I don't know how they do shit in Cali but here in New York things are much much different.. People can get 25 years 1st time pinch for medium quantities of coke and heroin and weed.. It's not commom but why would you subject yourself to it?? It's not easy to win a case in trial..

Under the Rockefeller drug laws, the penalty for selling two ounces (approximately 56 grams) or more of heroin, morphine, "raw or prepared opium," cocaine, OR CANNIBUS, INCLUDING MARIJUANA (these latter two being included in the statute even though they are not "narcotics" from a chemical standpoint), or possessing four ounces (approximately 113 grams) or more of the same substances, was made the same as that for second-degree murder: a minimum of 15 years to life in prison, and a maximum of 25 years to life in prison.

You don't want to even know what a 2nd pinch is..... Look up Rockerfellar laws.. When your caught red handed (on wiretap or on video) what are your options besides taking a deal really?? Yes if you go to trial and get found not guilty you walk but... The risk sometimes does not outweigh the reward when your facing 25-life. If your innocent by all means go to trial..

Yes disclosure does come out during the trial but so what?? Do you really think the prosecution will even go to trial without a very high chance of a conviction?? They are confident and smart.. They don't care if you take the deal or not.. Your defense attorney will be able to tell you if they are bluffing..
Maby some stupid people take a plea and think it's the only way out but anybody who has been around the block knows that there are options.. I'm not saying just take any deal they throw at you... I'm saying talk to your attorney and find the best route... Usually that involves a plea...

I don't understand why you are giving me a hard time about this.. It makes no sense..
People plead guilty to a lesser charge all the time and avoide the maximum.... Yea you get convicted but if you are caught anyway and you are gonna loose in court a plea is a godsend.. When you beat your case were you facing 25 years?? I seriously doubt it.. But here it is a very real possibility..

Also you wanna talk Cali.. In Cali you don't even have to be arrested on two different occasions.. You can get multiple 3rd strikes all in one shot...
It is possible for a defendant to be charged and convicted with multiple "third strikes" (technically third and fourth strikes) in a single case. It is also possible for multiple "third" strikes to arise from a single criminal act (or omission). As a result, a defendant may then be given two separate sentences that run consecutively,[10] which can make for a sentence of 50 (or 75, or 100) years to life. 50 years to life was the actual sentence given to Leandro Andrade.

You see.. When your facing that, if your attorney is good and connected he may be able to plea you down to something more manageable.. Taking a plea is not taking the easy way out you are very wrong.. It could be.. But usually it is about getting you home as quick as possible.. So when you get arrested facing 25 years and they offer you a plea of 6 or 8 see what you do.. Especially when the evidence is overwhelming.. You would take the 8 no doubt.. Because your caught, your logical and because your attorney would be beating you over the head to take it.. I'm done on this subject.

You act like taking a plea is making it easy on them.. Or taking the weak way out... OK tough guy you sit in jail for 30 years because your hard headed and pass up on 8 years with a plea.. HAHA this is a joke..