Plant has developed a deficiency, what is it?
- Thread starter ice minus
- Start date
Tynehead Tom
Well-known member
I'll vote for calcium deficient
What kind of water are you using? What is the substrate the plant is the plant growing in?
goingrey
Well-known member
The brown spots calcium and the yellowing magnesium?
StickyBandit
Well-known member
I started foliar spraying recently with calcium made from vinegar and eggshells and Epsom salt, about a teaspoon per liter of each and also dimmed some of my LED lights a little and my young plants seem to be healthier. I was getting similar vein effect on the leaves. I grow in hempy buckets with straight coco
I don't recommend spraying buds as they can rot
Straight Epsom salts foliar spray is fairly safe to use at 1 teaspoon per liter in my experience but more information would be helpful
Soil or coco or?
Lighting?
Temp roughly?
Are the roots too wet and not getting oxygen?
Feed etc
I don't recommend spraying buds as they can rot
Straight Epsom salts foliar spray is fairly safe to use at 1 teaspoon per liter in my experience but more information would be helpful
Soil or coco or?
Lighting?
Temp roughly?
Are the roots too wet and not getting oxygen?
Feed etc
Last edited:
ice minus
Member
Hi Creeperpark!
I am growing with my native tap water supply and do not want to use RO for a multitude of reasons.. The water composition results from my township look like this
At this time I have not added any cal-mag.
I treat the water with absorbic acid powder to decrease the chloramines using this handy spreadsheet for dosage:
and then furthermore I use this stuff to pH down to 6.5 as close as possible: https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/tnb-ph-adjuster-ph-down even though it supposedly is not needed when using my type of soil: https://blackswallowsoil.com/product/kis-mix-blended-soil-651 , I do it anyways just because it comes out of my tap at 8 or beyond
Let me know if I forgot anything!
ice minus
Member
Indeed, it's in flower as I cannot spray anythingI started foliar spraying recently with calcium made from vinegar and eggshells and Epsom salt, about a teaspoon per liter of each and also dimmed some of my LED lights a little and my young plants seem to be healthier. I was getting similar vein effect on the leaves. I grow in hempy buckets with straight coco
I don't recommend spraying buds as they can rot
Straight Epsom salts foliar spray is fairly safe to use at 1 teaspoon per liter in my experience but more information would be helpful
Soil or coco or?
Lighting?
Temp roughly?
Are the roots to wet and not getting oxygen?
Feed etc
I added 1 tbsp epsom salts to 5L of my water just now. Think this would be a safe amount to experiment with?
Soil, from black swallow, link to exact product & ingredients are just above!
Lighting HLG-550 LED R-spec
Temps 62-65 low at lights out
I am not sure on the roots thing, I use blumats to water and definitely don't keep them soaking wet heavy pots but they are regulated watering and WERE happy previously I *thought*!
I am a novice
Thanks again
StickyBandit
Well-known member
That's phosphorus deficiency.
The oldest leaf is most affected and damage is slowly spreading to the newer leaves, making it a mobile nutrient deficiency.
Mobile nutrient deficiencies: N, P, K, Mg.
Src.
Src
Original
From Mulder's chart, phosphate is antagonistic to copper, calcium, potassium, iron and zinc. Phosphate is synergistic with magnesium.
Can you give a quick breakdown of what they've been fed up to now?
Deficiencies can mimic lockout. Knowing what treatments the soil has been given will help us help you.
Thanks
Deficiencies can mimic lockout. Knowing what treatments the soil has been given will help us help you.
Thanks
Tynehead Tom
Well-known member
I would go out on a limb to say that nightime root temperatures are too cold in the rootzone.
In my own garden I am vegging under an HLG 600Bspec, it's on 24hrs.
When temps in my room drop below 70.... these kinds of leaf damages occur.
Look up what elements, nutrients the plants start to have trouble absorbing and at what temperatures.
Cold root zone will cause all kinds of lockout and buildup issues.
I say Calcium because that is what it looks like .... to me... when the plant is having a hard time taking up Calcium and nitrogen.
There is no reddening, rusting, leaf tip or edge die off. The issue is expressing between the leaf veins and starting to form localized necrosis/dry out, between the veins only.
I could be wrong but my first step would be a dry out period , then a simple flush with PH 6.8 to 7 water and then take PPM/EC readings and PH measurement of the run off.
Give your plants a couple feeding of gypsum at 200 ppm with your usual feeding/watering schedule
Check root zone temps and keep your room no lower than 70-74F in darkness and 78 to 80 in daytime.
Get any pots off of any concrete floor.
I build a 2 inch high insulated floor in my shop and then built my grow space on that.
K..... interested to hear other's thoughts but PH , PPM/EC are values that would be helpful in diagnoses.
In my own garden I am vegging under an HLG 600Bspec, it's on 24hrs.
When temps in my room drop below 70.... these kinds of leaf damages occur.
Look up what elements, nutrients the plants start to have trouble absorbing and at what temperatures.
Cold root zone will cause all kinds of lockout and buildup issues.
I say Calcium because that is what it looks like .... to me... when the plant is having a hard time taking up Calcium and nitrogen.
There is no reddening, rusting, leaf tip or edge die off. The issue is expressing between the leaf veins and starting to form localized necrosis/dry out, between the veins only.
I could be wrong but my first step would be a dry out period , then a simple flush with PH 6.8 to 7 water and then take PPM/EC readings and PH measurement of the run off.
Give your plants a couple feeding of gypsum at 200 ppm with your usual feeding/watering schedule
Check root zone temps and keep your room no lower than 70-74F in darkness and 78 to 80 in daytime.
Get any pots off of any concrete floor.
I build a 2 inch high insulated floor in my shop and then built my grow space on that.
K..... interested to hear other's thoughts but PH , PPM/EC are values that would be helpful in diagnoses.
looks like magnesium deficiency
It’s the pale yellow with the dark green veins … also the necrotic tissue
StickyBandit
Well-known member
That matches my experience with the veins, I fixed it with Epsom Salt foliar spray
ice minus
Member
I appreciate the reply, my head is spinning when it comes to Magnesium vs. Potassium vs. Calcium deficiency identification - especially because what I keep being linked to is a tiny image that seems to be making the rounds on the internet where it's an infographic of a weed plant with a bunch of different deficiencys and excesses, but the image is only about 800 pixels, impossible to see in detail, and a bunch of the symptoms look the same! I am really having trouble with that.. It's a shame there isn't more high resolution literature out there that covers it
I have introduced added epsom salts (80ppm or so worth, I decided against just using a tablespoon approach and measured it instead via meter) to the water supply that maintains the entire tent. I'm guessing it will continue to look worse at lights on today and probably for a couple more days until the epsom salts could potentially start to help? I was usually told you need to wait a week between feed changes? Novice user here
Sure, I'd be happy to try and explain as much as I can remember. It's simple, because it's mostly just the Black Swallow KIS Mix and Gaia Green.
Everything is watered this tap water via Blumats, and they seem to love it. It does a way better job watering than I could ever do.. I then hand water microbes, and any other additives so the blumats never see anything but water, and only kick back in when the plant has dried out, this is how they work
I treat the tap water with absorbic acid to kill the chlorine/chloramines (0.2g per 5gal is my dose according to the /r/Aquaponics spreadsheet).
Then I am using this product to reduce the pH as close to 6.5 as possible: https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/tnb-ph-adjuster-ph-down - it's not very good, I have to constantly keep checking the water because the citric doesn't hold. I'm just trying to use this up then will be switching to a phosphoric based general hydro one
KIS Mix Blended Soil | Black Swallow Living Soils, Brantford ON
If you have listened to any of the podcasts on our website, you will have learned of Tad Hussey from KIS organics. Tad is based in the Seattle area, where he runs KIS Organics, a company that sells soil mixes, amendments and compost tea brewers to Washington State.
blackswallowsoil.com
I veg in this soil until it reaches a good size in 5" pots or so. During it's time in veg the food in that soil is way more than enough, it grows lush dark green leaves, maybe even too dark or at least very full and rich green. I have a bunch of other things from Black Swallow I randomly give it - a dose of Fish Hydrosylate: https://blackswallowsoil.com/product/fish-hydrolysate-pacific-natural-626 once for sure. Microbes from Black Swallow as well, frequently. Aloe flakes. Stella Maris extract. Sometimes in foliar then adding the rest to the soil drench .. I don't have any issues bothering me in veg knock on wood that I've really encountered yet.. I'm sure it's far from perfect or ideal but it IS working for me and I'm proud of getting that far!
Once the plant is a decent size I move from that pot into a 5, 7, or 10 gallon fabric pot full of the same soil - no amendments at this time other than a sprinkle of some special microbe dust all over the root ball and a handful of worm castings mixed into the soil. I then generously water the entire thing once transplanted with a full dose of microbes in the water. Blumat sensor gets fitted, drippers installed, and I wait a couple days for it to show it's happy and then it goes into my flower tent.
After a week or two goes by I add a tablespoon per gallon of Gaia Green Power Bloom mixed with castings, and water it in, with microbes.
And that's where I'm at with all the plants in my grow right now, just at various stages with this process
This plant in particular that's showing problems is only in a 3 gallon pot. I'm wondering if it ran out of food or I didn't give it enough.
It's a long post, thanks for reading
ice minus
Member
I'm a troubleshooter by nature, probably from my computer hobbyist background. If I screwed up somewhere beyond fixing I won't be deterred by it. I will throw them out and immediately try again.. Much like a computer - when something isn't working, I will keep tinkering until I *MAKE* it work.. I hope to one day achieve this here
I'll take it on the chin and won't give up, I have lots of weed to keep me happy
I'll take it on the chin and won't give up, I have lots of weed to keep me happy
Cool.
Have you tested the ph and EC/PPM of your runoff?
Do they get plain water on occasion?
Have you tested the ph and EC/PPM of your runoff?
Do they get plain water on occasion?
ice minus
Member
I haven't, I don't usually water to runoff in this soil that would be flushing all the food out of it, the guys at Black Swallow specifically said to never ever do that
I can try but I use pH drops, my Hanna meter is crap and I don't trust it, it's readings are way off even after calibrating it vs what the drops say
I'm not sure if I can use the drops either because the solution it's measuring will be muddy brown from the runoff..
I can try but I use pH drops, my Hanna meter is crap and I don't trust it, it's readings are way off even after calibrating it vs what the drops say
I'm not sure if I can use the drops either because the solution it's measuring will be muddy brown from the runoff..
Okay. My buddy ran into similar issues with a Gaia and Super Soil grow over this past Winter. He is convinced that it was ph down that caused lockout. He went down the Rabbit Hole on how phosphoric acid and Super Soil can fight one another, with the end result being a big nutrient buildup in over acidified soil.
It is okay to water enough to capture a tablespoon or so to measure. You do not have to flood them, as you said, don't want to leach the Nutes and microbes.
Ph meters suck if their accuracy is in question. I've had excellent results with the (relatively) cheap Apera brand.
I would give them Epsom in plain un-ph'ed water for the next several irrigations. It is helpful (even in Organic soil) to measure runoff when plants start having problems. Helps to pinpoint the too much, too little, ph out of whack questions.
Best of Luck, buds are still gonna kick ass!!!
It is okay to water enough to capture a tablespoon or so to measure. You do not have to flood them, as you said, don't want to leach the Nutes and microbes.
Ph meters suck if their accuracy is in question. I've had excellent results with the (relatively) cheap Apera brand.
I would give them Epsom in plain un-ph'ed water for the next several irrigations. It is helpful (even in Organic soil) to measure runoff when plants start having problems. Helps to pinpoint the too much, too little, ph out of whack questions.
Best of Luck, buds are still gonna kick ass!!!
