pH or Else?

[Verger OG]

Hi,

I seem to have some problems.

This is Durban Poison in vegetative stage on soil mix from growshop.






That is on day 15 and heights are 6,6 and 5 cm.

In the 2nd picture you see pant 5's second leafset. It has yellow spots but if also doesn't have the right shape. This happened on 2 plants.

Pant 6 in the 1st picture seems swollen. Is that correct? And what are the yellow spots an indication of in the 2nd picture?

Using 400W HPS here with a few CFL's for spectrum considerations.





Something is not quite right. Unfortunately I can only get my pH tester to work tomorrow cause apaprently the thing thinks my 7.01 callibration is spoiled.

Water pH is averaged at 7.61.

Any ideas?
Thanks!

 

[Fat Tone]

They look find to me. Your Ph sounds about right. Is there a lot of heat in your room. It might be from heat stress. I would transplant them. They should take of and look healthy after you transplant.

 

[Verger OG]

You think that the root system is mature enough to transplant?

I still got some yellowing going on now. Later today getting the fluids. I'll do a pH check on my soil. I have a feeling it is not an ideal mix at all.

 

[MynameStitch]

I would not transplant them unless the mixture was too strong for them. There root system is not established enough to transplant them yet.

Are you feeding them anything? Are you misting them with water? Honestly I would rid that hPS and use only the CFL's. A lot of strains look like this when they are under a spectrum they do not like;

How close is your 400 watter?
Unless you have a lot of plants growing; using a 400 watter is a waste of energy; the HPS is keeping them short and sqaut; plants are supposed to be a bit taller' you don't want squat bushy plants at this stage.

CFL's can be kept close without burning them; it's a better spectrum... problem is your CFL's spectrum is not stronger than the hps; in order to add abalnce you would need to add a MH in there, so in my experience, remove the HPS and use the CFL's only for now

Another peice of the puzzle that is missing; what is your soil mixture? What brand is it?
Since your pH meter is not calbrated we can't go by the PH you have given; so right now we don't know.

Those spots look like a partial bleaching; that is not a deficiency.....like if you misted them with a foliar feed or something the nutrient was left in big drops on the leaves...... I am not saying that is what it is; but that is just what it looks like. If not; then I have no idea what those spots are.... but I know it's caused by something you did to it. The health of your plants, this is a common sign plants show when they are growing under a HPS at this state and age in there life.

 

[Verger OG]

No I am not feeding them anything. Thast would make no sense in these small cups. I don't think the 4 tubes would keep them alive. That is 4 times 18W. Or would they? I've always grown under the 400W from the start to keep plants short. I thought that was the idea...

The mix I use would not be known to you. But it comes from a growshop and contains perlite, is real loose, black and white peat bog, worm...stuff....bacteria etc.

But I have more bad luck. I got callibration fluid today and the damn thing still won't callibrate saying the fluid is (too) contaminated. I mailed the distributor but tomorrow is Sunday and then there is a hectic Mondat before 31 december.

Haven't misted them but my humidifier creates a mist that quickly evaporates into smaller moisture particles. Could tiny droplets from a humidifier cause the plant to start clawing? The leaves on the plants are really starting to bend down and feel tense.

I am not sure what you meant with your last sentence?

 

[MynameStitch]

No, but those dots on there it can cause that, that is why I was asking if misting was being done.

To claw, that is caused by either too much nitrogen, improper spectrum or overwarering of the plant, that is the ONLY things that causes plants to claw. THe greenage on the plant is not normal either..... I would buy some compact fluros and use those with your tubes. How many plants you got, do you also realize you are growing a big strain?

 

[Verger OG]

Yes I know, misting can cause droplets to act like magnifying glasses that burn the leaf (for all readers here who didn't know yet). The green is indeed dark. Isn't it better to replace the tubes with compacts because normal fluorescent tubes aren't efficient?

But a 400W HPS is aout as efficient as you can get. Right? I have only 5 plants, 3 Durban Poison and 2 Orange Bud. Those two are smaller. They are 6,5 and 7,5 cm after 22 days. The DB's are 6,5, 9,5 and 8,5 cm today, day 23.

DB is a big strain? No I didn't know that. In that case, keeping them short is good. Does it make a difference overall?

I made some pics of the current situation.

Temps and RH are improving but now plant 6 also shows some signs of yellowing on the edges of leafs and my 2 Orange Buds also have a few yellow leaves at the bottom but in another way.

I wish my pH meter would work.

 

[MynameStitch]

Normal fluro tubes have to be extremley close to the plants, where compact fluros you can have them a bit higher and they don't have to be right on the plants; otherwise you would burn them if the leaves touched the CF for too long.....

Also with you growing multiple strains they are going to require different nutrients and amounts, so keep track of what you give them and how much.....

ya, but the 400 is giving them the wrong spectrum and when they have improper spectrum especially at this age, they droop a bit and show slow stunted growth. I would get some fluros; ya 400 is fine, but the amount of lumens it puts out for the size of the plants you have, is a waste; the plants can't take all of it without getting harmed; the higher you have your lights the less lumens comes down to the plants; with CF"s not only are you giving them better spectrum for vegging; but you are also putting the light closer. the 400 is too strong and the plants can't use it all which is why it's a waste of electricity and it is going to cause you slow growth.

Yes, DS is a sativish strain and gets very tall...... I suggest topping that plant in a few weeks.

 

[Verger OG]

Your advice is of great value to me.
Indeed I keep track of everything I do in Excel.

yes I know I am wasting energy. I think a metal halide gives a better spectrum for vegetative stage? Perhaps that would be a waste too. I'll see if I can get some compact fluro's somewhere.

The HPS is 50cm above the tops.

Yes i am gonna top. But I am not sure what way yet. Any recommendations? I was thinking FIM. I did that once. With some success. I wonder if it is worth doing it in terms of yield.

 

[Kr@kEn]

Make sure you have an oscillating fan in there to blow on the tops of the plants to create some air current between the plants and the light, if you aren't already.

They are ready for good size pots too.
My 2 cents

 

[Verger OG]

Thanks. Yes I have a fan. But haven't used it yet because my in-fan and out-fan cause enough circulation.

Yeah i think I am gonna transpot them now

I have some pH down. I think I'll use it to lower soil mix pH a bit. But I can't test pH still until I get email from the company with advice.

In any case, they won't die on me cause that never happened with these conditions. But it willa ffect yeild etc. But tha is not a problem really, I will still get enough for a year.

 

[Lumpy]

I also use a 400w HPS start to finish NO problems! Move the Light up and give them bigger pots...It will help some

 

[Verger OG]

Thanks! I transplanted them today. They were not completely root bound but close to it. I also used white cups. The roots looked good. But perhaps there was some light on the roots. Later I used brown tape to make it darker.

 

[MynameStitch]

400 watters have caused more problems with plants this size than anything else I have seen when they are in the same situation.

It happens randomly; some strains don't care, but I have seen more plants care than not care; so when I see this plant; it shows the same exact symptoms that other plants show when they do not like the light that is being given to them.

if you top, it will cause the plant to bush out, the sooner you top it; the shorter you will have to keep your plants, the main stem will stop growing causing the other side branches to branch out thus causing the branches to get bigger and taller on than the stem, if you let it go too far the plant can't support all the weight, especially when it gets into flowering and you have a higher risk of breaking that main branch it will end up splitting into 2.

 

[Verger OG]

Cervantes seems fond of 400 or 600W HPS in his DVD.

I know about topping and stuff. But I'll give them some more time after transplanting.

 

[Lumpy]

If your worried about your plant stalks being too weak, Bruise them...gently pinch the main stem as it grows!! this will make that stem solid as a rock. Guaranteed!! Just keep rockin' that 400w things will get better now that you transplanted.

 

[MynameStitch]

Like I said, not all strains like the spectrum in veg; so if your plants still have the problem after transplanting; which I find the transplant not nessesary right now, considering the fact they were having problems and stressing them out to transplant, I would have waited on that.

So if it does not fix it; switch over to CFL's, I have seen many plants not like the spectrum and act just like this.

So please update us on this matter soon!

 

[Lumpy]

I agree either way I'd like to know what will work best for that strain

 

[Verger OG]

I will keep you updated and thanks for the interest. Almost a day after transplanting now. I realise perhaps it would have been best to stabilize the situation before transpotting them. But since I cannot be sure at this moment what the problem is, pH or light or any of the myriad ensuing combinations, I thought it best to do it anyway since they were indeed rootbound as well.

Not completely, but plenty.

The temps at the top of the plants are around 20 Celsius.

Make some snapshots tomorrow. I'll let them settle in now for another day.

Happy new year, welcome to 2008.

 

[MynameStitch]

Rootbound is when the entire air of roots go around and around the root ball, if some soil fell out from where the roots were at and you see root hairs in the mixture where the soil fell out, the mixture was not rootbound, but would be soon.
O honestly think it's a combination of problems, I would put them in a better light first and fore most and go from there.

Plants can't make photosynthesis as well when they are not given the proper spectrum of light.