Peruvian landrace

[teide]

Never heard of it.
Does it exist?
Read one or two threads here of some one scoring seeds at location in the jungle and in the Mountains of Peru. Those were great when grown on location. Also read that what's available on the streets in Peru is just average stuff. Is there something available considered Peruvian landrace, or would that just be some mexican/panama/Columbian landrace grown in Peru?

 

[Litew8stoner]

Who knows! Lots of old sativas there from when the Spaniards brought slaves to the Americas. I'd honestly save seeds from anywhere I go.

 

[Water-]

Slaves hiding seeds up their ass to bring herb with them has to be the most absurd and ignorant myth in the cannabis world


Litew8stoner: I reread my comment and it looks like i was directing it at you. i didnt intend to.
poor wording on my part.

i save seeds too

peace

 

[Water-]

Ive heard the same as you about the herb in peru.

so many powerful plant drugs there... must be good stuff somewhere

 

[Mustafunk]

Slaves hiding seeds up their ass to bring herb with them has to be the most absurd and ignorant myth in the cannabis world

Hiding seeds in their ass? Lol.

The slavists probaly grew weed or let them do it in order to keep them happy.

Later, they started giving them alcohol to get them drunk and cope with the misery of work. At least that was the case with the Spanish colonies but I'm afraid it was something common. A bit like what happened with the wars and the use of drugs and alcohol along the history.

It's not a myth... it's well documented.

 

[Water-]

Hiding seeds in their ass? Lol.

The slavists probaly grew weed or let them do it in order to keep them happy.

Later, they started giving them alcohol to get them drunk and cope with the misery of work. At least that was the case with the Spanish colonies but I'm afraid it was something common. A bit like what happened with the wars and the use of drugs and alcohol along the history.

It's not a myth... it's well documented.

the myth i was referring to was that the slaves themselves smuggled the seeds onto those horrific slave ships.

In South Africa the British gave the slave miners ganja breaks as well, to keep them "happy"

peace

 

[rolandomota]

Their was no prohibition back then they forced all slaves to grow it not just kidnapped Africans but also poor people of any race indigenous or mix blood the Spanish had a ridiculous caste system.
We're human and we love weed their was no prohibition and tobacco sucks ass compared to weed. what history books call tobacco was actually drug hemp alot if the time. Tobacco was found here the natives used it and I'm sure they traded it for seeded hemp back in the 1500s so anything before that reffered to as "spices" was referring to food and weed
They put the slaves to work growing it and they smoked it freely their was no one sneaking anything but shit in their asses

Weed came from the Indian "spice" trade route then it made it to Africa, then Europe on the way back home from India and then the Philippines and later Mexico by the Spanish when they sailed around the earth looking for a better faster trade route to asia and lastly to brazil by the Portuguese and of course it was used in the middle East way before it was spread from India
Weed ain't a modern day drug it's old school to the max hardcore lol

 

[hellfire]

I have some Peruvian seeds. They are fat and tannish - almost gold looking. I was told this one takes 16/17 weeks minimum but really around 20 for proper smoke. The buds are supposed to be quite large if it gets the full 20.

 

[imakandi]

travel in peru much much time in amazon and coast
landrace... nobody say that
only money man

is business
many client for that


add: peru is big big big country
amazon
desert
beach
tropical
many climate
so... one landrace, no... mayb with location name, is believe

 

[Mr. J]

I get the feeling these days that the term "landrace" gets thrown around a lot solely as a marketing strategy. Step one, get some skinny leaf plants that grow a bit wild. Step two, throw a dart at a map. Step three, "We collected these from a farmer in a small Surinamese village. These rare landrace seeds are only available for a limited time, get them while supplies last!!!" Step four, profit.

 

[therevverend]

the myth i was referring to was that the slaves themselves smuggled the seeds onto those horrific slave ships.

There is evidence that it's more then a myth. Here's a quote from a book called 'The African Roots of Cannabis'. It's a long one because it combines and summarizes information from different sources I've found:

'Slave coffles carried cannabis to the coast in 1850, because slavers thought the plant drug sustained captives on their forced marches to slave-ship ports. Of the several stages of travel that brought captives across the sea, the marches produced the highest mortality. Slaves valued the plant drug, too. The only known account of seed saving of any plant by a slave in Africa refers to Cannabis Indica. (my note: certainly NLD) In coastal Gabon, the French-American traveler Paul Du Chaillu "once saw a few [liamba] seeds in the possession of a slave in a slave-factory. He was carefully preserving them, intending to plant them in the country to which he should be sold. (my note: stored in his anus?) Du Chailluy encountered this slave perhaps during 1856-59, but he also lived in Gabon as a teenager in the 1840s.

Oral histories of seed saving persisted across the ocean. In 1926, the Brazilian naturalist Manoel Pio Correa published a tradition he had collected in Brazil between 1910 and 1925. He wrote, "With the heinous traffic [cannabis] came from one side of the Atlantic to the other, the seeds brought by unfortunate captives tied into the edges of their wraps and loincloths, and wrapped in bannana leaves then shoved into their rectums, who ultimately disseminated [cannabis] to all of South America and the Antilles." Pio Correa's study of useful plants in Brazil is considered encyclopedic and reliable, having emerged from 20 years research in South America, West Africa, Central Africa, North America, Europe and Asia. He offers a plausible mode of seed transport. Slaves entered the Middle Passage mostly unprepared and often unclothed, yet there are similar traditions in Suriname that enslaved West Africans carried concealed rice seeds. Cannabis in Central Africa had a lower importance then rice among West African captives, but it's association with slaving was strong. No other compilations of cannabis-specific folklore repeat Pio Correa's story: although several folk songs include a chorus that celebrates the plant drug's past: "It's from Congo, it's from Congo!/Hey, conga/Hey, conga/Rah, rah, it's from Congo.

More commonly, Brazilian folk songs reference cannabis horticulture. Lyrics describe the plant as "sweetheart of my garden," and remind people to "plant it with great care/always working on it/to see a result."

Brazilian cultivation of Cannabis Indica (NLD) originated with Central African seeds. When the seeds arrived is unknown. The majority of all Central African captives landed in Brazil-316,000 before 1750, 470,000 during 1750-1800, and 1.21 million before 1865. After 1750, 62% disembarked near Rio de Janeiro or in Minas Gerais: the remainder disembarked in Brazil's NE. Two sources suggest cannabis in the 18th century. One weaker, one stronger. The weaker came from Maranhao, where the governor in 1784 offered to send samples to Lisbon of a plant "similar to the ones grown in the north" for cordage. (my note: seems to be hemp, Cannabis Sativa, NLH, grown in Britain and the USA) Portugal grew almost no cannabis, and few Portuguese had any experience with the plant. Portugal tried growing hemp in southernmost Brazil, with little success, and particularly, no success by 1784. (my note: the British had a similar failure in tropical India) So the cannabis mentioned by the governor of Maranhao was likely from African seeds.

The second one, the strongest evidence for 18th century cannabis in Brazil, is from 1749. A young man accused of sodomy (rectums again!) before the inquisition of Lisbon in Minas Gerais, confessed that "aguardiente, with pitar," led to his sin. He swore to never drink or use pitto again. (my note: there's a discussion of words but pitar is most likely cannabis)'


That was a lot of typing, could go on all day but I got to end it. I may need to get this book, seems to be well researched with all sorts of interesting history. The gist here is that the Portuguese weren't very good at growing cannabis. Their attempts and interest was in growing hemp, the narrow leaf European kind, that does poorly in the tropics. The kind the slaves were growing, narrow leaf tropical drug, was not suited to fiber. I need to read more and see if there was any sort of a fiber industry in Brazil. I doubt it. The strains the slaves grew had to come from Africa, whether they were smuggled or purchased from more 'legitimate sources'. I doubt the slaves had a lot of money to buy the seeds, and their masters had little interest in the stuff except as a means of placating the population. Which was probably unnecessary, there was plenty of alcohol and it's something the masters could sell for cash and labor. As opposed to cannabis which the slaves grew themselves thus giving the ruling class no incentive to profit. My take is that out of the hundreds of thousands of slaves, some naked, some not, some of very low rank, others noblemen in their former country, all it would take is a few hundred to have the foresight to smuggle cannabis seeds. It also seems other important plants were brought as well. If I had 5 minutes to prepare to be kidnapped by aliens I'd certainly stick some cannabis and seeds in my pocket. Along with some potatoes, pepper and tomato seeds.

PS there were no references to rectums or butt smuggling in the original sources. Those were my additions.

Back to Peru. Peru is a huge country with many different micro and macro-climates. A strain suited for the low elevation eastern rainforest may not do well in a high altitude humid region. A strain grown in the high altitude dry side my not do well in the low altitude dry but humid coast. As is seen with Columbian landraces, if there are Peruvian landraces they could have all sorts of interesting and unique adaptations.

Since this is an off-topic post in a short thread buried in the landrace section. I'm going to copy what I wrote and paste it into the Brazilian strain or landrace thread. I did a lot of typing and I'd like it to be somewhere people who are interested in the subject will find it.

 

[Water-]

Thats a long time to go without taking a shit.



the Gabon story isn't very convincing for me. no disrespect meant.



maybe people were willing to be killed for smuggling seeds in a loin cloth if they were allowed to wear them.

I dont know.

I think it is unlikely, but thats just my opinion

peace

 

[teide]

Thanks for all the responses, I guess..
My questions were all answered and then some..

 

[therevverend]

maybe people were willing to be killed for smuggling seeds in a loin cloth if they were allowed to wear them.

But we're not talking about prohibition, I'm not sure someone is going to be punished for carrying seeds with them. It might even be encouraged, slaves live or die by the skills they have. A slave with gardening skills, with the foresight to carry her own seeds, would have a better chance of surviving then one who doesn't. I don't think it was in my excerpt, a different source mentioned seeds sown into dolls. Were slaves allowed to carry a few meager possessions, a loincloth or skirt, or were they naked? No idea but I'd guess it depends. Could a slave carry a pipe and a couple ounces of ganja or tobacco on their person? If it shuts them up and gets them onto the ship without a ruckus maybe. They are valuable goods, the more compliant and healthy the more $ they'll fetch. I know it's all speculation.

One thing I gather from the quote mining I did, it's a lot more likely then when I thought it would be. I thought the stories came from the 50s and 60s, thought it might be stoner story type bullshit. Not a lot of information about ganja comes before WW2. A lot of the stuff comes from the 1920s, when there were a few people alive who remembered slavery including ex-slaves. The Gabon bit is from the 19th century. It does sound apocryphal but it has much more credence then i thought it would.

I'm adding a link to an article I found about the foods and medicinal plants that arrived in America along with the slaves. No mention of cannabis (no surprise..) or slaves themselves bringing the seeds. It does say that the slave ships often carried the foods and medicines the Africans preferred to maintain their health.

https://www.geog.psu.edu/sites/www....eychapter2africanethnobotanyintheamericas.pdf

 

[funkyhorse]

Hemp, maybe, but African cannabis? I don't think,for who? View Image
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Post 3055 in Sams thread

 

[Water-]

But we're not talking about prohibition, I'm not sure someone is going to be punished for carrying seeds with them. It might even be encouraged, slaves live or die by the skills they have. A slave with gardening skills, with the foresight to carry her own seeds, would have a better chance of surviving then one who doesn't. I don't think it was in my excerpt, a different source mentioned seeds sown into dolls. Were slaves allowed to carry a few meager possessions, a loincloth or skirt, or were they naked? No idea but I'd guess it depends. Could a slave carry a pipe and a couple ounces of ganja or tobacco on their person? If it shuts them up and gets them onto the ship without a ruckus maybe. They are valuable goods, the more compliant and healthy the more $ they'll fetch. I know it's all speculation.

One thing I gather from the quote mining I did, it's a lot more likely then when I thought it would be. I thought the stories came from the 50s and 60s, thought it might be stoner story type bullshit. Not a lot of information about ganja comes before WW2. A lot of the stuff comes from the 1920s, when there were a few people alive who remembered slavery including ex-slaves. The Gabon bit is from the 19th century. It does sound apocryphal but it has much more credence then i thought it would.

I'm adding a link to an article I found about the foods and medicinal plants that arrived in America along with the slaves. No mention of cannabis (no surprise..) or slaves themselves bringing the seeds. It does say that the slave ships often carried the foods and medicines the Africans preferred to maintain their health.

https://www.geog.psu.edu/sites/www....eychapter2africanethnobotanyintheamericas.pdf

I honestly dont know very much about the african slave trade.

When I google images they show people naked and chained together
forced to lay in thier own shit for the journey.

Your right though, there had to be people who became enslaved but were not treated like cattle.

Especially ones that had farming skills or some other useful skill like speaking spanish/portugues etc.

thanks for the link,
seems from reading it that cannabis definetly was brought to the S America from Africa.

the only thing we may never know is was it merchants or the actual slaves.

maybe it it happened in many different ways and reasons and at different times and places?

 

[funkyhorse]

The ones who brought cannabis to South America were Jesuits and it happened well before the slave trafficking started: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Jesus

 

[therevverend]

The Jesuits were founded in 1540. The first slave was brought to Georgia by the Spanish in 1526, the first slaves in America were brought to Hispanola in 1501. Slavery is literally as old as America. Of course these early slaves were unlikely to have carried cannabis with them.

It's an entirely different discussion when it comes to hemp as opposed to drug cannabis. The Jesuits certainly played a role in the spread of hemp cultivation throughout the Catholic world. Even wore clothes made of hemp. Cannabis was spread to South America before the Jesuits arrived. Hemp arrived in Mexico in the 1530s, Chile in 1545. No idea whether attempts were made to grow hemp along the Pacific Coast of Peru. The latitude is wrong but the weather would be much friendlier then in the Amazon.

By the 17th century the Jesuits were growing hemp in places like Paraguay. Along with any other crop they could grow for food or profit.

I'm looking for another thread to move this discussion to, if anyone has any suggestions I'd appreciate it. I know we've had similar conversations before, it would be nice to have them combined instead of scattered across random landrace threads.

 

[funkyhorse]

Hi Revverend
I am interested about the hemp in Chile 1545. North Chile was part of the incan empire

At the time in the Americas there were 3 different empires: The Mayan, The Aztecs in Mexico and the Incas based in Peru
Mexico is very far from Peru and mexican empires had no contact with Incas

In South America the slave trade started much later, the spaniards made the indians slaves so they didnt need to import at that time, they had plenty stock to choose from locally, it is sad but is the way it was

Jesuits were having an empire of themselves after inca empire was defeated, in the meantime they brought cannabis sativa all around the spanish south american viceroyalties and they used it for profit for sure

 

[Water-]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?threadid=171380

The Origin Of Cannabis