Perpetual Room Design

[TheGreenBastard]

I'm moving soon so I need to design a new grow room, I did a quick mock up in SketchUp. Let me know what you think, all input is welcome!

View image in gallery​

View image in gallery​

Secret Jardin L120 - Veg/Mother/Clone tent

Dimensions - 4'x3'x4.75' (3'x3' veg, 1'x3' clone/mother)

Lighting - 250w MH Veg, 2' T5's mother/clone

Ventilation - 6" exhaust from each chamber, passive intake, no scrubber

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Veg tent exhaust, Lighting intake

6" inline fan pulling from both chambers and pushing through three sealed lights, no scrubber

View image in gallery​

Three Gorilla Grow Tents

Dimensions - 2'x2.5'x6'11"

Lighting - 3x 400w dimmable HPS/MH w/ sealed air cooled hood, separate 6" fan and ducting

Ventilation - 8" exhaust from each tent pulled from a 8" inline fan pushing through a carbon filter, passive intake

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Exhaust

Push hot air out of window. (Perhaps a security risk?)

 

[TheGreenBastard]

I'd like to run between 1 and 4 plants in each flowering tent staggered 3-4 weeks from each other while running auto's in any leftover space inside the veg/clone tent.

Eventually I'd like to replace the HPSs with 315w CMHs but will wait until I have the new room dialed in.

My goal is only about a quarter pound every month so I expect to have quite a surplus as I dial in the room.

I'm most concerned about the ventilation and heat with this design. I'm sure I'll need something to reduce the airflow out of the tents closest to the main exhaust fan. I'm also not sure if a 8"x24" carbon filter and 8" inline fan will cut it.

I don't think intake will be an issue if can manage to keep the heat from the flowering lights out of the room but I'm not sure about pushing it out the window (light and naked eye appearance won't be an issue but I'm worried FLIR might). I feel like a single 6" fan should be plenty for the veg tent and the long ride through the lights but I'm open to change it.

 

[justanotherbozo]

yeah, your design looks pretty well thought out but, to me at least, it looks over complicated.

...i personally run a pair of Secret Jardin DR120 4 x 4's in a spare bedroom and in that room i also have my cloning/seed start cab and a 5 x 5 closet.

...each of these spaces is independent of all the others with passive intakes and dedicated fans and scrubbers for the pair of 4 x 4's which are my 2 bloomrooms.

...in the cloning box i typically run 160watts of PLL's and the exhaust is just a pair of PC fans, ...in the 5 x 5 closet i run my veg op with a 4ft 8bulb T5HO and the exhaust is just an old squirrel cage blower, 265CFMs if i remember right, ...no scrubber is attatched to either of these spaces.

the 2 blooomtents are set up in a barebulb vertical style with single 600HPSs in each as well as matching Vortex 8" S-line fans and scrubbers for exhaust, the fans are both on speed controllers because the 8" fans are oversized for my tents so seldom need to be run at more than about half speed. ...the lights are both connected to a flipbox that is then connected to a single 600watt magnetic ballast so every 12 hours the flipbox turns one tent on and the other tent off, ...one benefit to this is that my electrical usage doesn't have a 12 hour spike followed by a 12 hour flat line, just a steady, 24hour a day draw.

...i grow in coco hempy buckets and my mothers all live in 3liter cut down gingerale bottle hempy 'buckets' and i flower in 6liter trashcan hempy 'buckets' that i picked up at the dollar store for, you guessed it, a buck a piece. ...i feed KISS style using Jack's Pro Hydro and ALL my plants get the same formula with the caveat that brand new seedlings get a diluted, weaker solution and in flower i tweak the nitrogen content a bit, decreasing nitrogen as i near the end of the cycle.

...i run this setup on a staggared harvest perpetual where i harvest 1 bloomtent per month and have done so for several years now with almost NO drama, ...i routinely pull between 12 and 16 ounces per tent like clockwork, easy peasy, ...so that's between 3/4 of an elbow to a full elbow per month. (almost forgot, i run 8 plants per bloomtent)

...anyway, here's a few pics to illustrate where i'm coming from and please understand that i in no way mean to disparage your plans but rather i only mean to share what i am doing just to present another, less complicated and expensive option, ...the simpler things are the less there is that can go wrong.

...the exhaust setup and you'll note that everything is pretty casual in my op, i've been at this indoor shit for a decade now and i've found that you don't need to spends shitloads of money to make this hobby work.

...and here's a couple shots of the clone box where again you can see how simple and lackadaisical my approach is, ...i'm a big fan o' easy, lol.

...and the backside as i was finishing up construction.

good luck, bozo

btw, as i said, all this lives in the same spare bedroom and all these spaces draw intake air from this room while exhausting into this room so to keep the ambient air temps managable i run a 5000btu window AC unit during the warmer months and during the cooler months i just open the door and allow the heat from my grow op flow into the rest of the apartment, ...i live alone so this works for me but if it weren't an option then i'd be running a window fan pulling air out of that room to the outside and i'd probably have bought a replacement bedroom door that would then belong to me and in this door i'd cut me an intake vent, ...i might even install the fan to this vent so the hot air would be vented into the apartment rather than blowing that air outside where it might present a security concern while also being wasted, if blown into the house it helps to heat the house, ...the heat is there, why not use it?

 

[TheGreenBastard]

Thats a nice setup but heat is a huge issue for me in the desert using such small tents so the more complicated ventilation solves some issues for me. I would use either a whole room or a larger tent but I prefer having more frequent harvest with the ability to conduct very controlled side-by-side experiments. Yields aren't as important to me as frequency and variety so I've always preferred having multiple smaller environments than one larger room.

I would love to be able to have a separate filter inside each tent but I don't think I can make room and it would be a lot more equipment. I have a pretty high budget but I'd rather put it towards other areas.

I have been considering a portable or window AC unit to possible eliminate the need to exhaust out of the room but we'll see if it's needed once I start putting everything together.

Thanks for posting, hope you stick around once I get it running.

 

[Phaeton]

I use three interconnected rooms and have balanced the airflow to where the temperatures can be controlled by restricting the exhaust outlet. I tried regulating the intake but that required more frequent adjusting.
Using a constant intake pressure and varying the outlet maintained more stable temperatures and the slightly positive pressure keeps out flying insects.

For side by sides I have a separate stand alone room. It is the auto flower station at the moment as no current side by side testing is scheduled. The last use was 300 watt LED comparisons for veg and bud.
Black Dog and Advanced XTE won in budding.
Intelligent Light Source had no competition in cloning.
Hydrogrow was blacklisted for lack of warranty support.
Platinum had bad spectrum.
The discharge style bulb comparisons were done in 2008 and HPS is no longer used in the garden, ease of growing versus other factors figured in on the decision. CMH is my bulb of choice.

I use two of my children's ex bedrooms instead of tents, but my lighting and nutrient procedures mirror justanotherbozo in attitude and results. About a pound a month for many years.

If looked at schematically my setup and what TheGreenBastard has drawn up are similar. Air control using matched ducting with matching row style grow stations is a tighter and prettier version accomplishing the same end.

I am in the process of expanding and checking out a variety of physical layouts helps focus on what I need to end up with.
Drawings and photos are nice.

 

[rykus]

I like aspects, but for me I would design the grow to the room, and skip the tents and either make my own frame out of plastic pipe or wood, and line with either wood or poly depending on how long I thought I could run it.

Anyways, I would just buy the better light right away, rather than spend half the amount knowing you need to re buy right away... Also would because I build to the room try to go 3x3-5x5 if I could fit it, and ixnay the vented hoods in favour of putting extra $ towards better light and climate control...

Such small space and power use I would 100% jump on AC / Co2... If room was big enough I would be using 3 630w's and a 315 veg , maybe even DE 750's...

IMO it would be best and easiest to get the room, and fill as much as you can with space and then climate control the whole room, like a lung room with one filter, AC , co2 rig, and all your res nutrients ect...

If your not in legal rec state.... I wouldn't bother less your making some bank and got a lawyer on retainer, just me but seems the small guys take all the risk for no reward.... And generally tell too many people.

 

[Speed of green]

I'd like to run between 1 and 4 plants in each flowering tent staggered 3-4 weeks from each other while running auto's in any leftover space inside the veg/clone tent.

Eventually I'd like to replace the HPSs with 315w CMHs but will wait until I have the new room dialed in.

My goal is only about a quarter pound every month so I expect to have quite a surplus as I dial in the room.

I'm most concerned about the ventilation and heat with this design. I'm sure I'll need something to reduce the airflow out of the tents closest to the main exhaust fan. I'm also not sure if a 8"x24" carbon filter and 8" inline fan will cut it.

I don't think intake will be an issue if can manage to keep the heat from the flowering lights out of the room but I'm not sure about pushing it out the window (light and naked eye appearance won't be an issue but I'm worried FLIR might). I feel like a single 6" fan should be plenty for the veg tent and the long ride through the lights but I'm open to change it.

First off, the setup looks really well thought out and clean, props on that.

If you are having an issue with heat i can guarantee that you will not once you switch to the 315 CMH, a close friend of mine runs three of them over a 4x8 and pulls over a pound every run. His lights are the sun system bare bulb parabolic looking fixture.

If you are planning on buying a CMH bulb and you already have magnetic ballast for your current 400w hps, you will be able run the 315 in the existing 400w fixture, it is pretty well documented that overdriving the CMH by ~85 watts isn't an issue. If you have a digital ballast you are screwed haha.

As far as exhausting your heat and dirty air, for starters i would build a box with a 6" and 8" duct side by side to sit on the window sill threshold, that way you will be able to shut the window. anyone looking at the window would just see a box with a couple vents coming out, just like a portable air conditioner.


On the inside i would swap the carbon filter you have pictured for an in-line one, that way you could vent it directly outside. Also your 8" would be able to vent right outside too.

As far as FLIR, i don't know if the heat signature would be strong enough, especially with the CMH.

Here are a couple shots of my Window box, its not that visible from the inside but it works great..

Good luck!
sog

 

[TheGreenBastard]

Air control using matched ducting with matching row style grow stations is a tighter and prettier version accomplishing the same end.

I think so, not that I have anything against larger, consolidated grows, I just prefer the versatility, redundancy (minus ventilation in my design I suppose), and aesthetics of this setup.

I use three interconnected rooms and have balanced the airflow to where the temperatures can be controlled by restricting the exhaust outlet. I tried regulating the intake but that required more frequent adjusting.
Using a constant intake pressure and varying the outlet maintained more stable temperatures and the slightly positive pressure keeps out flying insects.

I've been most concerned about controlling the airflow to each tent and suspected that controlling the exhaust would be the more manageable solution so I'm happy to hear it works for you. I was planning on putting a 8in damper on each tent and using a few thermometers to try and measure the CFM and equalize as best I can.

I am in the process of expanding and checking out a variety of physical layouts helps focus on what I need to end up with.
Drawings and photos are nice.

I'm glad I could help. I wasn't going to post anything until I got into my new place but I figured someone might be helped by my mockup and/or be able to point out anything I've overlooked.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

I like aspects, but for me I would design the grow to the room, and skip the tents and either make my own frame out of plastic pipe or wood, and line with either wood or poly depending on how long I thought I could run it.

Typically I'd be with you but I have grown to prefer the portability of tents after several painstaking moves. I should be able to put up and tear down this whole setup without a trace within a day by myself.

Anyways, I would just buy the better light right away, rather than spend half the amount knowing you need to re buy right away... Also would because I build to the room try to go 3x3-5x5 if I could fit it, and ixnay the vented hoods in favour of putting extra $ towards better light and climate control...

Unfortunately my 400w is digital and I'm not planning on using my 250w HPS/MH or 150W in these tents so I will need to buy two more lights. I almost have enough left in my budget for two 315w CMHs with air-cooled hoods but for strictly scientific reasons I want to eliminate as many variables as possible until I get the setup dialed-in. Only when I have a valid control will i begin introducing variables. So for now, all equipment needs to be identical in each tent.

Such small space and power use I would 100% jump on AC / Co2... If room was big enough I would be using 3 630w's and a 315 veg , maybe even DE 750's...

I have been very interested in double-ended HIDs but I will wait to do some experiments with them, probably side-by-side with a CMH and standard HID. I'm not really interested in CMH for veg at the moment, it might be something I experiment with down the line but it certainly won't be a priority. CO2 may be something I try but, again, not a priority. AC however will likely be a necessity.

IMO it would be best and easiest to get the room, and fill as much as you can with space and then climate control the whole room, like a lung room with one filter, AC , co2 rig, and all your res nutrients ect...

I'm not really an "easiest" kind of guy.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

First off, the setup looks really well thought out and clean, props on that.

If you are having an issue with heat i can guarantee that you will not once you switch to the 315 CMH, a close friend of mine runs three of them over a 4x8 and pulls over a pound every run. His lights are the sun system bare bulb parabolic looking fixture.

Thanks, I have heard that CMH run ~7 degrees cooler than other HIDs so I'm excited about that but unless I can get a set of 3 for a decent price I'll get a few more inexpensive 400Ws for my control runs.

If you are planning on buying a CMH bulb and you already have magnetic ballast for your current 400w hps, you will be able run the 315 in the existing 400w fixture, it is pretty well documented that overdriving the CMH by ~85 watts isn't an issue. If you have a digital ballast you are screwed haha.

Unfortunately my 400w is digital and my 250w and 150w won't cut it. I have been considering buying three identical magnetic HPS and just upgrade the bulbs later rather than buying two more digitals and then up to three CMHs later (depending on the results of my experiments, which I hypothesize will favor the CMH over the other HIDs I will test) though I still have some time to decide. I'm leaning more towards the magnetic ballast though since the initial cost difference is negligible and then I won't have as much equipment I'll have to sell.

As far as exhausting your heat and dirty air, for starters i would build a box with a 6" and 8" duct side by side to sit on the window sill threshold, that way you will be able to shut the window. anyone looking at the window would just see a box with a couple vents coming out, just like a portable air conditioner.

On the inside i would swap the carbon filter you have pictured for an in-line one, that way you could vent it directly outside. Also your 8" would be able to vent right outside too.

I initially planned on placing the box inside of the window because most windows here have a very dark screen on the outside which would help keep things stealthy but I like the AC and exhaust box you pictured better. It helps solve two problems will still remaing inconspicuous. I will also consider an inline filter, it wasn't something that crossed my mind at first but now that you mentioned it I can see some advantages.

As far as FLIR, i don't know if the heat signature would be strong enough, especially with the CMH.

I think you're right, especially using a setup like you pictured.