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PBP?

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
:yeahthats

PBP is notorious for being acidic. Are you testing ph for your nute solution before feeding? What is the runoff ph?

I believe you have a lockup from out of whack ph. This appears as a mg deficiency but in all likely hood there is plenty in your soil, but because of ph, it is locked.
 
I ph the water to about 6.2 and feed till there is run off-I will check the run off and see what it is coming out at, about what should the run off be?
 

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
No, the leaves fade with dark green veins, then die.

If your ph is out, all the watering in the world will not help you.

Check ph of your nute solution after everything is added and mixed, and check the ph of the runoff from the bottom of the pot before you do anything.

Do you have a good ph meter? I bought a good one today and what I thought was close to neutral water (tested with a cheap meter) turns out to be 8.1 on the good meter. This makes a world of difference to your plants.

Magnesium (Mg) - Micronutrient and Mobile Element


Magnesium helps supports healthy veins while keeping a healthy leaf production and its structure. Magnesium is significant for chlorophyll-production and enzyme break downs. Magnesium which must be present in relatively large quantities for the plant to survive, but yet not to much to where it will cause the plant to show a toxicity.


Magnesium is one of the easiest deficiencies to tell… the green veins along with the yellowness of the entire surrounding leave is a dead giveaway, but sometimes that’s not always the case here. In case you have one of those where it doesn’t show the green veins, sometimes leaf tips and edges may discolor and curl upward. The growing tips can turn lime green when the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant. The edges will feel like dry and crispy and usually affects the lower leaves in younger plants, then will affect the middle to upper half when it gets older, but It can also happen on older leaves as well. The deficiency will start at the tip then will take over the entire outer left and right sides of the leaves. The inner part will be yellow and or brownish in color, followed by leaves falling without withering. The tips can also twist and turn as well as curving upwards as if you curl your tongues.


Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca). Mg can get locked out by having too much Calcium, Chlorine or ammonium in your soil/water.
One of the worst problems a person can have is a magnesium def caused by a ph lockout. By giving it more magnesium to cure the problem when you are thinking you are doing good, but actually you are doing more harm then good. When the plants can’t take in a nutrient because of the ph being off for that element, the plant will not absorb it but it will be in the soil… therefore causing a buildup. A buildup will be noticed by the outer parts of the plant becoming whitish and or a yellowish color. The tips and part way in on the inner leaves will die and feel like glass. Parts affected by Magnesium deficiency are: space between the veins (Interveinal) of older leaves; may begin around interior perimeter of leaf.




Problems with Magnesium being locked out by PH troubles

Light Acid Soils, soils with excessive potassium, calcium and or phosphorus


Soil

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.



Hydro and Soil less Mediums

Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7
Magnesium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.8-9.1
(Wouldn’t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.



Solution to fixing a Magnesium deficiency
Any Chemical/Organic nutrients that have Magnesium in them will fix a Magnesium deficiency. (Only mixing at ½ strength when using chemical nutrients or it will cause nutrient burn!)
Other nutrients that have magnesium in them are: Epsom salts, which is fast absorption. Dolomite lime and or garden lime (same thing just called different) which is slow absorption. Sulfate of Potash, Magnesia which is medium absorption. Worm Castings, which is slow absorption. Crabshell which is slow absorption. Earth Juice Mircoblast, which is fast acting. (a must buy!! Has lots of 2ndary nutrients).
Now if you added to much chemical nutrients and or organics,( which is hard to burn your plants when using organics) You need to Flush the soil with plain water. You need to use 2 times as much water as the size of the pot, for example: If you have a 5 gallon pot and need to flush it, you need to use 10 gallons of water to rinse out the soil good enough to get rid of excessive nutrients.



Picture one shows a mid grade magnesium deficiency.


1134Magnesium-1.jpg
 

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
6.2 is too low.
Soil

Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn’t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.
 
I have a good meter,tomorrow i will check the run off and see where it's at, so if the water going in is 6.5 and is coming out at say 6 then i should adjust the ph of the water up?
 
ok,i couldnt just not check them so i just ran some water through one of them-started at 6.8 and came out at 5.5 WOW-so should i flush them or just adjust the water up and water ?
Heady-thanks for you help
 

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
Adjust the water up and water. Try adjusting to 7.5, then 8.0, then 8.5 and see how it comes out. Raise ph little by little to avoid shocking your plants. Stop when you've raised it enough to counter the acidity in the soil. Dolomite lime in your grow mix next time will help buffer ph and provide mag and cal for your plants. MJ likes lots of mag and cal. You must mix it at least two weeks before use to activate the lime. It is very slow acting. Cooking organic soils is a must. Ferts must naturally break down before the plants can use them, unlike chem ferts.

Congratulations, you have learned one of the biggest mysteries of growing...proper ph!

A flush is required when you over fertilize, and get nute burn. Nute burn manifests as burnt tips, getting worse as the burn is worse. Most growers gauge the strength of ferts by the amount of tip burn, looking for that perfect little bit of burn to the very tips. A lockup is different and does not require flushing, usually. If you feel you have been overferting, trying to fix this problem, then yes, flush with plain water at 8.0 (check runoff, adjust as necessary, aim for 7.0) for a couple days. Resume your feeding when all is good and your plants have stabilized

The golden rule is it's better to use no nutes than too much. Plants will grow without, but will die with too much.

See, your PBP is very acidic. Test the ph of the straight fert itself and see. Many people who are not familiar/adjusting ph are have problems with PBP. I am using BioBizz and it is ph neutral. Most guano and fish based ferts are very acidic, plus natural biological action in your soil will drop the ph.

Fix that ph issue and your plants will be good. The damage already done will not repair, so watch new growth and watch for worsening existing symptoms.

Remember, your ph meter is your best growing friend!

Good luck!
 
G

Guest

A meter is good for soil grows,but I prefer general hydroponics Ph test kit.It has everything you need to adjust Ph,test nute PH and runoff,and lasts a good long time.I have 80 dollar milwaukee ph and PPM meters but use them very infrequently.Listen to all that excellent advice from Pete the Head and use 1-2 tbls of dolomite lime per gallon soil mix depending on soil acidity,it can alleviate a lot of future problems.
 

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
Excellent! How do they look? Has the damage stopped progressing?

When you do your next nute solution, adjust to 8.0, and confirm runoff. Your soil could change over time, so you may need to adjust your solution to a value other than 8.0 in the future.

Glad I could help you get it squared!

I had some cal/mag issue with some LUI clones, but it wasn't PH. Although my water is high (8.0), those minerals lock out at ph that is too low (6.4 and below) so I know it wasn't lock. It was lack of cal mag. I added CalMax (same as CalMag) and now the damage has stopped and new growth is green and normal. BTW, LUI are pigs for calcium and magnesium.

If you start at the beginning and eliminate factors logically, it's easy to pinpoint a problem, rather than guessing. Usually guessing is the death warrant for your girls. Accurate PH testing is always the first step.

Can't wait for some updates and pix!
 
Plants look ok,new growth is nice and green. Im just gonna have to keep a eye on the ph of the run off so i dont run into no more problems. There 3 1/2 weeks into flower and starting to bud up nice,next watering im gonna give them some food and see how they respond.
 

HeadyPete

Take Five...
Veteran
You will do fine now!

4 weeks from finish or so you can start decreasing your Nitrogen, so that it is zero two weeks out. The last two weeks, nothing but plain, ph adjusted water to flush the excess ferts from the plants and soil. This will clear the earthy, "green" taste from your smoke and leave the natural goodness. Don't worry about yellowing fan leaves then, they will yellow from the bottom of the plant first, then start moving up. This will not affect your bud growth, but you may get pretty colours as the chlorophyll wanes....also don't stress about ferts, there will be plenty left in the soil and plants to get you to the end.

Take care. I'll be watching for updates or problems.

:joint:
 
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