passive plant killer

[delta9nxs]

NH4 moves ph down

NO3 moves ph up

IF, i don't see how your plants are even surviving in that temperature. i've never experienced that "leathery leaf" thing. i would back way off on the nutes until it cooled down a little.

is your entire room that hot? have you been able to get a root zone reading?

the plants still looking good?

hi, knna!

 

[*mistress*]

Are you saying it is the opposite that the quote?

Please, explain it a bit, Ive always seen NH rich fertilizers used to fight against high ph, I would be very suprised if actually is the opposite

... edited.

in general:

Managing the Root Zone in Soilless Culture
Nutrient consumption can be roughly estimated by checking the changes in the nitrate (NO3-) content of the nutrient solution. Compared to the drip-line point, it will go up and down, generally reflecting changes in plant consumption. Another form of nitrogen that can tell us about the status of the growing medium is nitrite (NO2-) concentration.

In case of over-irrigation, water accumulation in the medium leads to waterlogging, and to decreased availability of oxygen in the medium. This change uncouples the chemical transformation of ammonium to nitrate causing nitrite to appear and accumulate in the medium. The nitrite anion is toxic to plant roots and will eventually lead to plant death.

Another important parameter is the pH of the solution flowing through the medium, which can affect the availability of microelements and phosphate to plants.
One of the advantages of soilless culture is the ability to control pH in the medium solution. This is achieved by adding acid to the irrigation water to change the ratio between NH4+ and NO3-, which are the only two forms of nitrogen allowed in this cultivation method. It is a common phenomenon that while passing through the root system, the pH will drop slightly due to root respiration and lack of buffer capacity in the soilless medium.

...

One of the functions of water supplied to soilless culture, other than fulfilling the need of transporting nutrients in plants, is to maintain a low level of salts in the medium and to prevent a possible build-up of salts. Commonsense tells us material cannot disappear from the system. Therefore, although water evaporates from the system, salts do not; hence they will always remain behind. Every anion and cation not consumed by the plant will accumulate in the medium. If the salt is not outside in the drainage it is inside the medium!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

D9: "IF, i don't see how your plants are even surviving in that temperature. i've never experienced that "leathery leaf" thing. i would back way off on the nutes until it cooled down a little.

is your entire room that hot? have you been able to get a root zone reading?

the plants still looking good?"

I don't know how they're living, but they seem to be looking good. I'm getting quite a bit of pH drift up on a daily basis, and a couple of the fan leaves are showing some yellowing. So much is outside of ideal zones, that I haven't even tried to figure it out.

I'm playing with my nute mix, and trying to get it together to get some Jacks delivered. Wanna make it easy for me and remind me how you ordered? (I know I should just go back through the thread, but time is tight right now...) When I get that delivered, I'll do a decent flush for a few hours, and then start on the Jacks.

My garden is running around 95-100 degrees, with a RH of 25%. (That RH might be part of the leaf texture issue.)

The clones were taken out of the flower cycle, but before buds really set. They are more like shrubs than plants right now, and I'm about to chop a bunch of the side branching for clones and try and promote more vertical development out of the central node. I picked up a little tote, and am going to put together a solo-cup coco wick cloning set up to see if I have any better results with that than I've been having with rapid rooters and my aero set up.

Anyway, they seem happy as can be, aside from the pH drift and a few leaves here and there. Two ten inch plants are going through about two gallons of nutes every twenty-four hours, and they are transpiring enough that shade leaves have to come within 3-4 inches of the cool tube before showing any heat-related burns.
I keep poking around in the coco for some roots, and I'm not really finding an impressive network, but the growth seems like its there.

The first picture is immediately after transplant, the second is eleven days later:

What do you think?

 

[Carl Carlson]

My garden is running around 95-100 degrees, with a RH of 25%. (That RH might be part of the leaf texture issue.)

What do you think?

I'm kind of surprised the fan leaves aren't slammed shut like a clam shell.

 

[delta9nxs]

D9: "IF, i don't see how your plants are even surviving in that temperature. i've never experienced that "leathery leaf" thing. i would back way off on the nutes until it cooled down a little.

is your entire room that hot? have you been able to get a root zone reading?

the plants still looking good?"

I don't know how they're living, but they seem to be looking good. I'm getting quite a bit of pH drift up on a daily basis, and a couple of the fan leaves are showing some yellowing. So much is outside of ideal zones, that I haven't even tried to figure it out.

I'm playing with my nute mix, and trying to get it together to get some Jacks delivered. Wanna make it easy for me and remind me how you ordered? (I know I should just go back through the thread, but time is tight right now...) When I get that delivered, I'll do a decent flush for a few hours, and then start on the Jacks.

My garden is running around 95-100 degrees, with a RH of 25%. (That RH might be part of the leaf texture issue.)

The clones were taken out of the flower cycle, but before buds really set. They are more like shrubs than plants right now, and I'm about to chop a bunch of the side branching for clones and try and promote more vertical development out of the central node. I picked up a little tote, and am going to put together a solo-cup coco wick cloning set up to see if I have any better results with that than I've been having with rapid rooters and my aero set up.

Anyway, they seem happy as can be, aside from the pH drift and a few leaves here and there. Two ten inch plants are going through about two gallons of nutes every twenty-four hours, and they are transpiring enough that shade leaves have to come within 3-4 inches of the cool tube before showing any heat-related burns.
I keep poking around in the coco for some roots, and I'm not really finding an impressive network, but the growth seems like its there.

The first picture is immediately after transplant, the second is eleven days later:

What do you think?

your plants are lookin' great considering the conditions. you really need to cut nutes down to 4-600 ppm until the temps normalize.

what is the ec in the reservoirs? and actual ph?

jack's, calcium nitrate, and ro water is still the most stable combination i've ever tried. i'm still not using any ph adjusters or additives.

the jack's hydroponic special 5-12-26 and the calcium nitrate are available at:

www.jrpeterslab.com

i actually ordered mine through a local nursery supply company and he just brought it in on his regular truck. i picked up a 25 lb bag 10 miles from my house.

the calcium nitrate is extremely common at farm supply places and nurseries.

your growth rate is in stall mode right now. i mean it's still growing but not very fast.

when you do get the jack's 600 ppm is achieved with 360 ppm jacks and 240 ppm calcinit. still the 1/.67 ratio.

how long do you have to deal with these temps. i'm mid-south and july and august were 95-100 every day. it's just now getting down to the mid 80's.

well, good luck!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

EC in individual wick reservoirs is 2.6.
pH in individual wick reservoirs is 5.6 (with current adjustment).

EC in top off res is 2.05. This slowly climbs, so either my POS Hanna multi-meter isn't correcting for temp shifts, or I'm getting a bit of evaporation resulting in concentration.
pH in feeder res is 4.8 (running low has brought down the feeder res's pH from low sixes to mid-to-upper fives.) I'm using a pen for this measurement, as I don't trust the Hanna meter.

I cannot improve venting, without redesigning and rebuilding my vent box. My garden only has one window, and this is a contributing factor to the challenges I'm encountering with moving enough air through (not to mention, its been hot outside). I own bigger fans, but noise concerns limit my options.

I can reduce lighting.

I know how to use the chiller to drop temps in the garden, but it'll take money and time, both of which are in relatively short supply.

I am aware of dropping EC as to moderate nute uptake, and am trying to find a working solution. My EC has been dropping in the wick reservoirs by the way that I've been managing my top-off res and I am going through a lot of RO relative to the size of the plants right now...

I guess I really don't have a perspective on healthy growth rates. They don't seem in 'stall mode' to me, and have grown from the little cluster in the first picture (three by three) to these jungle balls that are (were, as I just thinned them pretty aggressively) a square foot of denseness.

I most certainly should not be doing this half-assed. The trouble I've run into over the last few efforts has really set me back financially, with the 'investments' in equipment that I don't use any more, the cost of running the equipment that I am using, and the continued expense of meds as my garden continues to fail. I could manage any one of those things, but in combination it has really been a challenge.

I can pull the plug and write it off as another 'learning' experience.
I can invest more and be in a worse position if I don't have a successful harvest that meets my needs.
Or I can....?

I don't want to derail your thread with specifics to my situation, but do appreciate having you (all) right here. With that in mind, is it time to start my own thread (I'm not really ready for that)?

 

[knna]

IF, usually a good way to improve a little res temp is to allow for some evaporation. Evaporation consumes a lot of heat, and result in res temp being lowered. But I dont know how to do it with the PPK, as delta9 designed it to limits evaporation.

I can think that maybe making a hole on the upper part of the bottom bucket and put a fan in there, for the summer (and block it again as temps lower), with an automatic top off system (evaporation on a closed res leads to EC raise). But Im afraid this may reduce the feeding from the wick, as the air flow will evaporate from it more yet.


Fans blowing on res, especially when RH is low, drops some degrees of the res temp easily. -3ºC (about 5-6F, i think) is easy to get that way. And aditionally, it will raise a little RH in the cab.

Anyway, I believe you should drop EC. When plants transpire a lot (high temps, low humidity), you must use a lower EC. Not too much initially, at the end your plants are doing good, and the rule is always not change what is working fine. But lowering it will avoid the risk of overfert. I think that always is better to use nutes concentration on the low range, at least until you get all the grow perfect dialed, as if plants shows signs of deffs, is easy to solve it fast by raising EC, but once they get overfertilized, fixing it is more complicated

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

knna,

As you said, D9s intention is to reduce evaporation systematically. I do not doubt that you understand the rationale, so I'll skip repeating it here.

I have topped off the passive res with RO, which has dropped the EC to 1.5.

I will continue to top off until I get it the feeder reservoirs down to the 1.2 range, and then reconfigure my nute concentrations to keep it close to there.

I was initially mentioning the res temps because I didn't have a new AAA battery for my cheapo thermo/hygrometer. I've replaced that, and now am getting a better idea of the range of the actual garden environment. I don't know the direct relationship between root zone temps and res temps, but my guess is that there is some evaporation moving laterally through the holes I drilled in the buckets. I imagine that is beneficial to the root zone temps, like the cooling effect of the fan over the reservoir.

Thanks for the help.

 

[delta9nxs]

knna,

As you said, D9s intention is to reduce evaporation systematically. I do not doubt that understand the rationale, so I'll skip repeating it here.

I have topped off the passive res with RO, which has dropped the EC to 1.5.

I will continue to top off until I get it the feeder reservoirs down to the 1.2 range, and then reconfigure my nute concentrations to keep it close to there.

I was initially mentioning the res temps because I didn't have a new AAA battery for my cheapo thermo/hygrometer. I've replaced that, and now am getting a better idea of the range of the actual garden environment. I don't know the direct relationship between root zone temps and res temps, but my guess is that there is some evaporation moving laterally through the holes I drilled in the buckets. I imagine that is beneficial to the root zone temps, like the cooling effect of the fan over the reservoir.

Thanks for the help.

hey, you beat me to it. all i was going to suggest was topping the res with ro for a while, but you know what you are doing.


by "stall" i just meant a slowdown, not a full brakes on stop.

the root zone temp will probably be closer to room temp.

one of the advantages of the ppk is that res temps are not all that important. i know i fought constantly to control res temps in dwc and biobucket grows.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

D9,

How about some shots or comments from your grow, or is it so dialed and perfect you're bored with it these days?

 

[delta9nxs]

ok

 

[Carl Carlson]

yeah I think he's bored

 

[delta9nxs]

here are a few shots i just took for everyone's amusement since you all obviously have nothing else to do either.

these were taken basically from the light's perspective showing all 8 plants in veg.

i also took a quick reading on the oldest plant and it was 1030 ppm @ 5.6 ph after 7.5 weeks in the same container. i have been feeding 1050 ppm in veg.

in flower i am running 600 ppm @ .5 as a response to the plants reaction to defoliating. working fine. no noticeable effect on yield.

veg room temperature is 78f and humidity is 51%.

root zone temp in veg is 75.6f and individual plant reservoirs are 77.3f.

tomorrows forecast is for bright light and more bud with stable tds, ph, and no worries, mate.

i have dried last weeks plant and it is 16.4 oz's so we have 4 in a row at 14.74, 18.38, 15.80, and 16.40 respectively. a total dried bud weight of 66.95 oz's or 16.74 per plant average.

the plants are getting difficult to handle without breaking them. just to get them into the flower room i have to wrap them up like a Christmas tree on one of those lots.

thus far i have been defoliating in flower only at the end of stretch.

in a attempt to control growth and still get this kind of yield i just started defoliating in veg. the smallest plant you see was just transplanted at about 8" and has had the first round of leaves removed.

 

[delta9nxs]

more of the same

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

D9 wakes up and thinks:

"Steady at 16+/week. So bored with that. Blah, Blah. Take two cuttings, move a plant, mix the same batch of nutes... blah, blah. Nearly double last years biggest plant with my smallest every time now. Blah, blah.

No hand watering or lugging turface.

I guess I'll go pick some stupid shade leaves.

So bored."

 

[delta9nxs]

yes, here are the total cuttings taken in the last 2 weeks. i haven't lost a clone in one of these in over 2 years. i need 1 per week so i take 2 for safety. i usually throw 1 per week out at some point.

 

[delta9nxs]

photos! duh!

 

[delta9nxs]

a few quick shots of plants and containers in flower.

tds and ph on lead plant is 617 ppm @ 5.5. i have been feeding 620-630 or so. tomorrow will be 8 weeks with no change.

air temp is 76.6f. root zone is 74.2f. plant res temp is 75.7f.

i move 2750 cfm of air through a 1200 cu. ft. room.

well, the only thing i got left are photos of the new kitten and my 3 day trip to the beach during which my wife took pics of everything but the road signs there and back.

i gotta go mix a batch of nutes. oh shit, that means i'll have to stop smoking weed for 15 minutes. life can be cruel!

that's all, folks!

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Do you run your cloner with lids for the first week? No doubt there's a wick in there...

 

[delta9nxs]

Do you run your cloner with lids for the first week? No doubt there's a wick in there...

it's got a 3" piece of polyester batting for a wick.

the containers are 3 quart sterilite.

there are 3 pints of turface in each one.

the turface is pretreated with 400 ppm flora nova bloom. soaked for several hours.

250 ppm flora nova bloom in the reservoir. only ro water added until transplant.

i use dipngrow.

two 40 watt daylight cfl's.

80f.

the lids do not come off for 3 days. then it's:

day
4 10 min
5 15 min
6 30 min
7 45 min
8 60 min
9 90 min
10 2 hrs

11 lid off

it's probably overkill but it's failsafe.