passive plant killer

[bad gas]

cyat- 3 to 1 ratio turface or napa floor-dry to rice hulls.

make tailpiece 6" long. this and your float valve establish the perched water table 4" below bottom of media bucket.

timed pump pulses nutrients every 90 minutes.

wick does two things: stabilizes moisture profile within media and acts as a drain after pulse event.

use jacks nutrients.

you may not need the extra pumping reservior for the pulse pump. [my opinion before i actually use this system. this may change with experience.] use lower PWT to compensate?

that's about all. this thing is a prime example of elegant simplicity.

good luck. the other posts will give details.

stay safe. bg

 

[high life 45]

I'd go build 12 of em right now if I had a clue!

And you got like 12 zips or the more off the simple ones... more than good enough

I was hoping to get a nice set of step by step pics when I made mine, but my partner finished most of the work before i got to the shop.

I have read the thread and still made a few "variations" (mistakes) but it seems as long as you get the fundamentals down you end up with a personalized version of the ppk.

I was hoping to put together a parts list, but it seemed that I ended up using different tubing for the res and top feed, so I opted not to make one avoiding confusion for other folks in the future. On top of that everyones garden is a bit different.

Im confident that the PPK family would walk you through your construction if you come here and contribute to the comedic cordial tone of conversation.

 

[cyat]

thanks guys that kinda helped.. how about 1/2 lines to control bucket instead of tire valves?

2 half sized buckets right?

 

[high life 45]

thanks guys that kinda helped.. how about 1/2 lines to control bucket instead of tire valves?

2 half sized buckets right?

You could do it. Not sure you would need that much flow volume. The nutrient is slowly wicking up the medium, 1/2" lines seem overkill to me.

 

[Scottish Research]

With all due respect, do I have to read this whole thread? Can anyone that is using this type system show us how they built their set-up, step by step? Thanks!


R.Fortune

 

[cyat]

You could do it. Not sure you would need that much flow volume. The nutrient is slowly wicking up the medium, 1/2" lines seem overkill to me.

too much flow?

dont they just set te water level?

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

how about 1/2 lines to control bucket instead of tire valves?

Works fine. There are reasons to go bigger. And reasons to go smaller.

The tire valves evolved from D9s knowledge of their ability to hold a water tight seal.

I've built it out with the tire valves, and with the 1/2 inch tubing. I had fewer headaches with the 1/2" fittings as there were readily available fittings and supplies locally. They flow fast. When you over pulse, it move faster both in and out.

1/2 buckets? I've done both 5 and 3.5 gallons. Both are good.

With all due respect, do I have to read this whole thread? Can anyone that is using this type system show us how they built their set-up, step by step? Thanks!

Find delta's links. There are summaries included in his links.

In my interpretation thread, I wrote a few pages in the front that I updated for a while that talks about both builds and tech.

There really isn't that much too it.

The thread is long, but worthy of reading over time. There is a lot of evolution and discussion around a variety of topics that has really informed my overall growing perspective. This thread is foundational to my understanding of cultivation, and has informed all aspects of growing (from aero to living organics...).

 

[high life 45]

My bad,
Ill shut my yap until I have had a finished run. I have the system built but havent got any girls in yet.

 

[delta9nxs]

wow! i came to post a few pics and find all this so i haven't had time to wade through it yet but i will.

welcome all!

here's a few quick pics i got right before the lights powered up.

 

[high life 45]

My bad,
Ill shut my yap until I have had a finished run. I have the system built but havent got any girls in yet.

 

[delta9nxs]

ok, the first one here is basically to get an idea of how big the buds are. not a good shot but the one bud i'm holding gives an idea.

same plant, the arcata trainwreck from drgreenthumb. the entire front of the plant looks like this, about 5' wide. 9 days left if on schedule but this one is looking early.

next is a matanuska thunderfuck, also from the doc. approx 3.5 weeks into budding, about to get a major defoliation. so we are basically seeing the final stature of the plant.

then a kish (shishkaberry x shishkaberry) x juicy fruit, from cash crop ken. about 10 days in.

 

[delta9nxs]

first one here is a colombian skies from the doc.

the rest are various trainwreck buds.

the last is of a trainwreck bud i did a closeup of 9 days ago. they have bulked up significantly since then and still 9 days to go.

all the buds on this plant are dense and hard.

it was never defoliated in flower as the fan leaves of this plant are very small, 4.5"-5" is a big one.

i did do several in veg and a topping above the 6th large branch that i left on. adding that this was necessary because the plant wanted to run and stretch. the use of defoliation in flower gave me a bushy plant with controlled height. it increased the number of bud sites by stimulating branching. it was vegged 5 weeks.

you don't want to do this with a naturally short or bushy plant.

it was flattened when viewed from the side which encouraged the inner branches to grow out towards the light. everything produced bud.

it will be a fast trim.

 

[high life 45]

hey d9 have you ever thought about putting a cage around your girls.
I have used tomato cages in the past with good results. I used zip ties to hold branches to the tomato cages and prevent them from flopping over. Sometimes it would take two or three zip ties.
In my previous set up branches flopping over created places where air flow was not optimal and other buds would block each other from direct light.
This would create an environment where nasties could thrive because of my humidity. (which was usually 65-80)
I am planing on using some cattle fencing or even burpee cages with the ppk's

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

hl45:

Not sure you would need that much flow volume.

cyat:

dont they just set te water level?

You don't need any more to keep up with the feeding of the plant... so you're both right on there.

If you want to start pushing pulse volumes, the quicker the solution moves through the lower buckets the quicker it moves through the lower buckets.

So it allows the pump set up to draw down the whole lower system, and push it all through the root zone, and then re balance quicker when the pulse percolates through the media. This way your bulk reservoir doesn't over feed your system. (If there is a decent place for restricted flow, I would prefer to see it between the bulk reservoir and the control.)

cyat

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

@D9: That trainwreck looks like a keeper.

How many individual seeds have you worked through, relative to the number of keeper phenos?

Are you considering bringing back the sweet tooth into the mix?

 

[delta9nxs]

With all due respect, do I have to read this whole thread? Can anyone that is using this type system show us how they built their set-up, step by step? Thanks!


R.Fortune

yes you do! omit nothing! or i'll send this guy to make you! then you come back one year. no bud for you!

 

[delta9nxs]

i'll try to put together an updated tutorial asap!

and cyat, the 1/2 is fine for the sub-irrigation line. it's a little bigger than it needs to be but these tire valves are proving problematic for some. i used them in an underwater spray apparatus 30 years ago and so was familiar with them.

all the hydro heads are already used to working with the grommet and hose tech so it would be a good way to make this easier to build.

i'll come back in the morning and catch up, i'm gonna burn some and crash.

 

[high life 45]

it was never defoliated in flower as the fan leaves of this plant are very small, 4.5"-5" is a big one.

i did do several in veg and a topping above the 6th large branch that i left on. adding that this was necessary because the plant wanted to run and stretch. the use of defoliation in flower gave me a bushy plant with controlled height. it increased the number of bud sites by stimulating branching. it was vegged 5 weeks.

it was flattened when viewed from the side which encouraged the inner branches to grow out towards the light. everything produced bud.

it will be a fast trim.

Ok I got ya, your training to keep them even with the light. Makes more sense now.
One of my favorite strains grows alot like trainwreck. Its almost like a vine, and also very easy to trim.

 

[delta9nxs]

Quotes by thesloppy

“I apologize for the only slightly related question, that is likely covered a few times deep in this thread, but I am fascinated by the discussion in here, and how some of the underlying science applies to my simple setup, even if I don't have the time/space/effort to try my own dedicated PPK experiment (yet):”


I just read your thread. You are going through the same thought processes that I did, thinking about root health and container/medium hydraulics. The ppk will be “babyshit” (term copyrighted by dhf) for you.


“Does a synthetic internal wick (like say a length of poly rope running the height of the container), have any added effect on dispersing/concentrating nutrients/waste/salts, and/or does it have any effect on the PWT, beyond that of an external wick, or a medium wick? I guess I'm wondering if a wick made out of something other than the medium (more porous?), extending the full height of the container, will serve to draw more water upward, further than an external/medium wick will allow, while providing the same drainage benefits, or is the capillary action defined by the medium and the wick material doesn't play that much of a role?”


I played with fabric wicks earlier in the thread. While they can work for transporting both the pwt out of the medium and nutrients into the medium they add an element of unpredictability to the search for the correct moisture profile for your situation. They can transport too much liquid and create wetter areas in the medium around them. Or transport too little and if you solely rely on the fabric wick you could limit the range of adjustment. This device is tunable for moisture profile. Moisture in a
medium is not consistent because of gravity, which makes it disperse along a gradient curve. By that I mean that it will be more wet at the bottom than at the top of the capillary rise potential of your particular choice of medium. Using a media wick, using the same substance that you grow in, that has been pre-mixed or selected for porosity and retention characteristics, you have the same transport ability throughout. Therefore, aliens! No, that's a different show. Therefore, predictable results.

Also a fabric wick only has to extend into the medium far enough to drain the pwt. Typically no more than 2-2.5”. If you are going to grow a plant to maturity in a container using a fabric wick I think it should be used as a drain only.

This is one way to run a quick and dirty drain to waste grow. Cheap, fast, and effective. A bunch of cheap throw away nursery grade pots. A few yards of polyester batting. A containment area, and a big light.


“What about in a flooded pan....like, a capillary mat wick at the bottom of a pan (used in some early references) probably isn't going to work to purge the PWT if that pan is flooded (is it?), but would an internal wick allow for better water/nutrient dispersal, and keep a container from getting perched while it's (occasionally) in standing water? I hope that question makes sense, and isn't completely moronic.”


well, if the pan is flooded you have taken the normal pwt in a pot and moved it up the same height as the standing water in your flood tray. So you would have the pwt inside the pot actually raised up onto the top of the flood water, creating an even deeper saturated zone. You have compounded the problems associated with a normal pwt. This is the basic flaw in a hempy bucket as well. You intentionally create a trapped body of water that won't drain and then add a pwt to it. Now the plant and evaporation have even more work to do to keep the plant from drowning.

Watering is the single biggest problem facing those growing in containers, which behave totally different from the open soil column from a hydraulic standpoint. The traditional approach, the one that makes novices believe that the successful grower has a “green thumb”, relies on a learning curve that educates the new gardener about when to water. This belief in the “green thumb” is perpetuated by some successful gardeners when in reality it is just simple science and anybody can do it if set up properly.

We have the “water when it looks wilty” approach. We have the “lift the pot approach” “bump the pot”, and others. I knew an old guy who could just bump the pots with his knee while he walked by and know when to water. All this stuff is about dealing with the pwt, which can only be eliminated by the plant or evaporation unless you do something to drain it. Dealing with the pwt is also responsible for most plant container designs, which are taller than they are wide to limit the size of the pwt. Tapering the pot limits also. Indented bottoms and so on. Google patents and applications for “perched water table” and you will get shitpiles of designs that limit.

Or, alternately, you can decide to drain the mofo mechanically. And yes, as recently pointed out to us, it does require more watering. So you can do it by hand and this fine for a few plants but those in larger rooms can grow tired of the routine in a hurry. Or you can feed it from the bottom only and still grow a nice plant.

But most of us in the cannabis world are not growing houseplants in stasis mode. We don't want “nice” plants. We want great yielding plants. We are pushing and pulling, enhancing, adding, trying every bizarre thing we can think of just to squeeze a little more weight out of our effort.

And, recently, we have heard “why do you want to drain it, it just makes you have to water more?”. A valid question for sure and the answer is to grow a bigger or higher yielding plant in the same space.

Welcome aboard, being the miscreant layabout that you are you will fit in quite well with this crowd. Most of whom I suspect of having spent too much time in pool halls.

 

[thesloppy]

Thx for the thorough response, D9. I'm sure I'll be back with more stupid questions as I work my way through the thread.