passive plant killer

[Snook]

I do not want you to think, that I think (abbot and costello!) that you tink woong. I will continue to read your writings and findings and apply to my setup, as much as I can. I currently am pulsing every 30 seconds for 60 seconds (350gph pump, short runs x 4), no opverflow. How much is that??? I have no idea. but if I pulse 5-10 seconds more, it overflows. No biggie, drilled the holes in the rez lid and it goes into the rez. but am I moving any more 'gasses' by pulsing more (volume) water, if it is over flowing? 64 oz, thats a half gallon! can you calculate how much is overflowing?

 

[delta9nxs]

Soil gas

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The air space in soil contains oxygen to provide for respiration of plant roots and soil organisms. This air space could also contain carbon dioxide as a product of respiration of plant roots and soil organisms.
Composition of air in soil and atmosphere:[1]
Nitrogen: Soil Air: 79.2% Atmosphere: 79.0%
Oxygen: Soil Air: 20.6% Atmosphere: 20.9%
Carbon Dioxide: Soil Air: 0.25% Atmosphere: 0.03%
Gas molecules in soil are in continuous thermal motion according to the kinetic theory of gases, there is also collision between molecules - a random walk.
In soil, a concentration gradient causes net movement of molecules from high concentration to low concentration, this gives the movement of gas by diffusion.
Numerically, it is explained by Fick's law of diffusion."

This shows the percentages of the 3 primary gases. What I find most striking about this is that the co2 is approx 8 times higher in soil than in air while nitrogen and oxygen are near atmospheric levels.

So we are inducing a large mass movement of gases in addition to the forms of movement mentioned above, refreshing those gases.

 

[delta9nxs]

I do not want you to think, that I think (abbot and costello!) that you tink woong. I will continue to read your writings and findings and apply to my setup, as much as I can. I currently am pulsing every 30 seconds for 60 seconds (350gph pump, short runs x 4), no opverflow. How much is that??? I have no idea. but if I pulse 5-10 seconds more, it overflows. No biggie, drilled the holes in the rez lid and it goes into the rez. but am I moving any more 'gasses' by pulsing more (volume) water, if it is over flowing? 64 oz, thats a half gallon! can you calculate how much is overflowing?

hey man, i tink woong all the time! i just hope enough of it is right to make some kind of progress.

use a pitcher or something to catch the pulse and measure it.

when the pulse falls any amount of liquid over the volume that would form a perched water table will come out of the sidewall holes. this is a very temporary condition as the pwt is being rapidly drained at the same time. so it is necessary to catch the extra.

but this has little to do with the gas exchange. the increased volume does move more gas, especially if it is delivered in a short time frame.

this higher volume per delivery gives you a more compact, more powerful gravity propelled mass per application. putting it out all at once or in the shortest time frame possible instead of a longer, drawn out pulse..

lets look at a bucket of media. it contains air or gases as well as the substrate and roots. lets say we take 8 oz's of liquid and put it through the medium. since everything is trapped in the container the addition of the liquid displaces gas to the same volume.

water is not compressible.

so if we put 64 oz's of liquid through the medium it will displace approx 8 times the volume of gas that the 8 oz pulse did. especially if we throw it out in a short period of time.

 

[disciple]

 

[delta9nxs]

--

what are those? tomato plants? nice lookin' buckets!

 

[mcfly420]

do both of the nutrients need to be kept in air tight containers? I think you have them both in glass jars now, but an older pic seems to show the jacks still in the bag

Thanks

 

[bloyd]

Both Jacks and Calcium Nitrate are hydroscopic and will absorb moisture from the atmosphere. Both should be kept in air tight containers.

Hey D9! Just finishing up a run that I set up for some buddies. Vertical 400 watt cmh with 8 plants in dr80 tent. I used the turface and rice hull mixture with 3 gallon buckets. 2 plants per bucket.

I set them up with clones from chimeras ultimix that I ran outdoors this summer and they turned out amazingly with such little effort and expense. Mind you neither buddy has so much as grown a houseplant in their life and are simply amazed at the simplicity and absurdly low cost of production in this system. We had to harvest early on one tent at 56 days and still pulled a little over 8 zips bone dry. This was with pure torture, once a week maintenance. My buddy ran the system so low on two occasions that the tailpiece was completely out of water for several days, just getting topwatered once an hour with your newest manifold design, and the plants didn't even show a single sign of distress. Buddy got kicked out of his place 2 weeks into flower and only visited the plants once a week before the early harvest and still turned out fantastic quality smoke. The other run is finishing next week, I will get some pics up before harvest. You deserve them!

Learned a lot from the first runs and will most certainly be using this system again.

 

[Snook]

I started a thread about final trim in a CocaCola (or any other 12-24 can) box. I recieved no replies. Oh well. Friend in Van Nuys tells me of this. He didnt believe it, so the took one branch, cut off the buds, put in box... shaka, shaka, shaka.. and >>>he went on to do all 6 plants. Said it saved him hours of time. I'm 4 days in bloom, I'll try in 9 more weeks but until then.. whatta you think? An electric trimmer can get very expensive and it is basically, just a tumbler.

 

[delta9nxs]

do both of the nutrients need to be kept in air tight containers? I think you have them both in glass jars now, but an older pic seems to show the jacks still in the bag

Thanks

hey, mcfly! i learned the hard way about these dry nutes sucking up moisture when i solidified about five lb's of maxibloom. turned it into a block of concrete. all dry nutes should be kept in airtight containers.

i use those plastic ones you have seen in the pics. they have a seal and a locking mechanism on them. i also keep the tablespoon i use for measurement in the container with the nutes so it is always dry too. wally's in the housewares dept.

 

[delta9nxs]

Both Jacks and Calcium Nitrate are hydroscopic and will absorb moisture from the atmosphere. Both should be kept in air tight containers.

Hey D9! Just finishing up a run that I set up for some buddies. Vertical 400 watt cmh with 8 plants in dr80 tent. I used the turface and rice hull mixture with 3 gallon buckets. 2 plants per bucket.

I set them up with clones from chimeras ultimix that I ran outdoors this summer and they turned out amazingly with such little effort and expense. Mind you neither buddy has so much as grown a houseplant in their life and are simply amazed at the simplicity and absurdly low cost of production in this system. We had to harvest early on one tent at 56 days and still pulled a little over 8 zips bone dry. This was with pure torture, once a week maintenance. My buddy ran the system so low on two occasions that the tailpiece was completely out of water for several days, just getting topwatered once an hour with your newest manifold design, and the plants didn't even show a single sign of distress. Buddy got kicked out of his place 2 weeks into flower and only visited the plants once a week before the early harvest and still turned out fantastic quality smoke. The other run is finishing next week, I will get some pics up before harvest. You deserve them!

Learned a lot from the first runs and will most certainly be using this system again.

too cool! thank you for trying this. i realize that this system is extremely unconventional and it takes a bit of a leap to try something this different.

d9

 

[mcfly420]

Good to know... I decided to put the majority of the bags into 2L bottles (4 each), so its not all exposed each time. The bags also both had small pinholes in them but I only found 3 pea sized clumps in the CalNit- which after sitting out quickly 'melted'.


Does the 1/2tsp of jacks weighs 3.7g and the CalNit 2.4g?

 

[delta9nxs]

I started a thread about final trim in a CocaCola (or any other 12-24 can) box. I recieved no replies. Oh well. Friend in Van Nuys tells me of this. He didnt believe it, so the took one branch, cut off the buds, put in box... shaka, shaka, shaka.. and >>>he went on to do all 6 plants. Said it saved him hours of time. I'm 4 days in bloom, I'll try in 9 more weeks but until then.. whatta you think? An electric trimmer can get very expensive and it is basically, just a tumbler.

i have thought about making a trimmer based on a rechargeable electric lawnmower.

if you dry the buds first then shook them most of the trim leaves should break off close to the bud. my people would bitch immediately because i have spoiled them with tightly manicured bud.

my biggest worry would be about breaking off or crushing trichs.

it's hard to imagine any machine or technique doing a better job than a conscientious hand trimmer with a good pair of scissors.

i wish somebody would come up with something though because i spend more time trimming than everything else combined

 

[delta9nxs]

Good to know... I decided to put the majority of the bags into 2L bottles (4 each), so its not all exposed each time. The bags also both had small pinholes in them but I only found 3 pea sized clumps in the CalNit- which after sitting out quickly 'melted'.


Does the 1/2tsp of jacks weighs 3.7g and the CalNit 2.4g?

i having trouble remembering but i think it was 3.6 jacks.

do you have a meter?

 

[mcfly420]

No, so I guess my plan is to mix up 1/2tsp of both per gal and dilute from there. I do have a cheap scale but just can't find it right now. Dumping the res once I've added back the orginal amount of RO has been working fairly well, but slowly switching over to DTW is probably my best option. I just don't know whether to go with long 8" wicks or a simple hempy bucket. Will be handwatering though until I get a pump, timer and tubing

"I've tried almost all forms of active hydro with the exception of aeroponics with more or less success. Some great grows, some mediocre ones, and some dismal failures. Passive hydro in several forms starting with 2 yrs using turface in standard one gal nursery pots, 72 at a time in a plastic lined 104”x 52” 2x4 frame on the floor. Then I experienced the “hempy” phenomenon and have been trying variations on the “internal reservoir” technique ever since. These variations consisted primarily of trying different size and shape containers with different media and drain/overflow configurations and heights while using different fertilizer regimes. Not too challenging. I mean just how many ways can you pour water through a bucket? All in an effort to increase yield. Two steps forward and one step back, slowly and painfully (sob!)."

I assume the turface in 1gal pots or the hempy buckets were not 'failures'?

 

[delta9nxs]

No, so I guess my plan is to mix up 1/2tsp of both per gal and dilute from there. I do have a cheap scale but just can't find it right now. Dumping the res once I've added back the orginal amount of RO has been working fairly well, but slowly switching over to DTW is probably my best option. I just don't know whether to go with long 8" wicks or a simple hempy bucket. Will be handwatering though until I get a pump, timer and tubing

"I've tried almost all forms of active hydro with the exception of aeroponics with more or less success. Some great grows, some mediocre ones, and some dismal failures. Passive hydro in several forms starting with 2 yrs using turface in standard one gal nursery pots, 72 at a time in a plastic lined 104”x 52” 2x4 frame on the floor. Then I experienced the “hempy” phenomenon and have been trying variations on the “internal reservoir” technique ever since. These variations consisted primarily of trying different size and shape containers with different media and drain/overflow configurations and heights while using different fertilizer regimes. Not too challenging. I mean just how many ways can you pour water through a bucket? All in an effort to increase yield. Two steps forward and one step back, slowly and painfully (sob!)."

I assume the turface in 1gal pots or the hempy buckets were not 'failures'?

first, if you take a 1/4 tsp and a 1/8 tsp of each to achieve approx 3/8 tsp total of each you will have approx 750 ppm at the .5 conversion. nobody makes a 3/8 tsp measure that i know of. you should not need to mix stronger than this. the 22.5 oz plant was fed 600 ppm for life in all stages.

on your dtw idea i think i have a better solution for you, give me a little time to put it together. maybe by tomorrow.

the pure turface worked great for that application as i was watering with a wand once per day. now i know that it easily could have been improved. the first few plants in this thread were all turface.

 

[delta9nxs]

This is my post # 479
“there is something i want to be very clear about at this point. the device you see pictured above will work very well using either top or sub-irrigation alone.

if you just want to grow a few plants for medicine or personal use there are two simple, different, ways this could be operated.

if you want to hand water the tops only you could just put the rig shown above in a catch tray of some kind, drill a hole in the sidewall at the desired level and water until you get a little run off. not much run off, just until you see an overflow so you know it's full.

in between daily top watering the sub system takes over, supplying the plant continuously. you can't over water with this method in coco and the plant will never suffer a water stress event from drying out.

almost fail safe. the drawback being that you have to be there every day.

in coco you definitely want to water daily at least a small amount to keep the res level close to ideal and the top moist.


The next method is sub only. With this you get more time away and less work. It requires some way of level control in the res and a separate supply tank. You size your volume tank for the time frame you need.

It does grow a smaller plant than than the top water method described above. But it will still be beautiful and healthy. I got 7 1/8 oz's from one.

If top yield is your absolute, go with the sub and pulse method.

D9”



Build the top bucket as I do now, photo below.

Build the bottom bucket the same as I do now with the hole in the lid to accept the tailpiece.

Do not drill a hole for a tire valve in the bottom as per normal.

Instead drill a single hole 3” below the rim. 7/16” would be good so you could plug it with a valve later.

Put a tray under the whole thing to catch any run off.

If you water just enough to cause a slight overflow daily it will evaporate between waterings.

Forget the 10-20% overflow stuff, it is not necessary here. Just enough so water comes out of the hole, daily or as often as possible. Trying to keep the reservoir topped at the same level.

Feed 600 ppm. Don't worry about ph with jack's unless your tap water is really bad.

You could use 100% turface here and get good results. You will have to put a piece of screen over the o2 holes in the top bucket.

i'm having a little trouble finding the photos i want but if you look in Zeke's pdf in my sig you will get a good idea of what i'm talking about.

this will seriously outperform a "hempy".

 

[Snook]

i have thought about making a trimmer based on a rechargeable electric lawnmower.
I'd have figured you for one already.

if you dry the buds first then shook them most of the trim leaves should break off close to the bud. my people would bitch immediately because i have spoiled them with tightly manicured bud. Change is good! Givem' a 'special' piece of cake/candy (reciently has some caramel made with budda.. very affective) or other edible. They'll get over it.

my biggest worry would be about breaking off or crushing trichs.
There are millions of them! HAHA!

it's hard to imagine any machine or technique doing a better job than a conscientious hand trimmer with a good pair of scissors.
This is very true but >save hours of trimming!!??

i wish somebody would come up with something though because i spend more time trimming than everything else combined
>save hours of trimming!!??

I do not like trimming but since I've started vapeing, even the shake is good. I'll give it a go.

 

[disciple]

 

[stagehand099]

Hello D9. I have read this thread up to around post 500 and its really been interesting to follow your experimental approach. You, Sir, are a pioneer. I am psyched to build a small 4 unit system and give this a shot myself. I may have questions as I build this thing that have already been asked. I hope you won't mind.

Coming from an exclusively organic soil-less perspective I have concerns about nutrient levels in the plant tissue at chop time. Almost all growers seem to flush at least for a little while when using mineral salt-based ferts. So far I haven't read anything that describes any kind of flush in the last days/weeks to deal with this. So:

You don't flush at all prior to harvest? What PPM's of Peters/Calcinit have you settled on for production?

One other materials question:
Where to get the 3.5 gal black buckets that you now use?

I lied. Some more:
Could you give me a link that describes the complete tire valve prep and setup? I'm not clear on this. Just valve guts removed and glued into position? What is the tube/fitting directly attached to the valve stem? What size tubing from there?

Thanks for passing along all this great information. Now back to reading the thread, somewhere in the fall of last year....

stagehand

 

[delta9nxs]

--

ah hah! so there are plants in those buckets! thank you!