passive plant killer

[ImaginaryFriend]

imaginary friends' vision of how the pulse should hit and behave, while technically unachievable, is still very approachable by increasing flow rate to a point where where you are putting the desired amount out onto the medium top in a shorter time frame. Thank you, IF.

And, I'm pretty close to achieving it. 400gph drive. 1/2" line 18" long, direct pulse. Seven seconds on. Add a T at the end and I might win.

But it's kinda impractical outside of the scale I'm using it at...

When I get it together, I'll update my thread with the 1 plant PPK horizontal SCROG I'm kinda putting together. It's a longer story. It involves romance, sorcery, garden gnomes (real, not statuary), and plants six feet tall in six weeks. (Temp and humidity matter, children. Temp and humidity matter.)

The romance part involves the gnomes. It's pretty fucked up, and now that I think about it, probably not a story appropriate for mixed company.

Just wait 'till I tell you about the sorcery.

Just remember, it's all qualified on "when I get it together." So don't hold your breath.



Anyway, the overbuilt pulse is pretty silly.

Definitely giggly.

Puddles hard and fast, then percolates.

 

[zeke99]

Here's a new one:

Repelling Fungus Gnats with Dryer Sheets

 

[mrcreosote]

Hey delta9nxs,

Hope you're feeling well bud...
If you find time to answer, I'd like to run a little thought experiment by you and see if I'm missing something. Sometimes I can get locked into a way of thinking and miss an obvious (to someone else) drawback.
In any event, this might be helpful to some folks with restricted height limits or even stability issues with full size plants or folks who want to try a modular scrog like myself because my 2x4 closet will work better with 2-400w rather than a single 600w but you basically only have 9-10" of useable penetration with 400w.
These busing trays are pretty cheap and they have covers and bridge the gap between a roughneck 3 gal. and a 10 gal. with less height than a double bucket. These are pretty slick because one lid fits both sizes. Mix, match, whatever you think will work for your particular need.

A 5" (going by outside dim.) holds about 6 gallons (231 cu." to gal.)
http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/thunder-group/plbt005g/p364263.aspx

A 7" holds about 10 gallons.
http://www.foodservicewarehouse.com/thunder-group/plbt007g/p364337.asp

5" only w/lid $6.08. + ship.
http://www.webstaurantstore.com/20-x-15-x-5-polyethylene-bus-tub-bus-box/70215205.html

Even the 5" at 2.5" airspace still hold 2.5 gallons for a res and why not drill out the same size tray, air holes in sides for a pot and a tailpiece? You may have to adjust airspace, less frequency or volume of top pulse to factor for less capillary action being required to keep the top more moist but the large surface evaporation area may not require too much change. Naturally, the media will determine what will be a good fit, (more hulls, less turface?).

One way to introduce more air in the center area would be to drill 1/8"-1/4" holes in a 1-1/4"-1-1/2" pvc pipe about half way up crossways with a snug fitting holesaw and cut pipe 1/2" longer. No fittings and a damn big pot.
It would make a nice tunnel for the gerbils to hide in.

You could screw 1/2" pvc pipe endcaps thru the center on the tub lip and make a removable scrog screen for each tray so they can rotate in and out if you do a cyclical garden, so keeping a reasonably level flower 'sweet spot' for lower powered lights.


You can always scrap the scrog screens if it's a shit idea and turn them into soccer nets and teach the cats to play soccer while you have so much time to sit around stoned and not having to tend the PPK garden. Forget coaching. Cats will play soccer their way, not yours.

Veg can use the same system but since were talking much smaller plants anyway, you could just stick rooted clones in a buried net pot in the tray and just pull the net-pot and plant and stick in the first flower area tray.
Or just put media pipes on 5-6" net pots and drill a few holes in the rez lid. Same difference. Wire-tie the pipe flange to the outside of the net pot, clip off at transfer to flower tray, net pot and all. No real transplant shock and a bunch of space for roots to run. Even the 5" tray gives you 3 gal. of media each for 2 plants
One rez, one float and feed line, one media tub, multiple veg plants staggered as necessary. Totally useless for growing trees but might work nice for SOG, Scrog, small grow areas where long veg, big bush plants wont work.

You'll use a lot more media than small pots but so what? More room is good. Since you were smart enough to buy extra tubs because they're cheap you can cut the bottom out of one leaving a center rib and glue a window screen in the bottom, dump your harvest tub in it, put it in your now empty dirty tub, fill with water and H2O2, let sit a couple hours and drain.
Good to go.
Don't let Wifey catch you using the bathroom tub because she'll make you scrub the whole thing down. Toss the rootballs in her trunk and make her get rid of them.
(It's smart to play it safe)

These are all just goofy ideas I had while ruminating my little closet grow that would be glaringly obvious to any grower with experience, but to noobs like myself it could be useful...if it would work.
I have absolutely no idea if depth of media makes any difference to our little friends as long as there is plenty of it. Due to d9's ingenious tailpiece design we know that a PWT is not an issue any longer, so the question still remains is shallow as good , worse or maybe even better than deep. We shall see. (If I get my lazy ass in gear.)

Everyone, please feel free to add any thoughts or ideas, critiques or flat out ridicule, as you may want.

I've been married a long time and I have kids.

I can take it.

 

[zeke99]

last edited 3/26/2012

PPK Index:

three ways to run ppk and more on the first method here
demonstration of a controlled water table
Controlled water table at work and here (water level in reservoirs)
wicks
air gap theory
powered plant killer theory and summary and here
another detailed explanation of the updated PPK theory in action in plain language
PPK theory lack of salt buildup
Introducing Hydraulic Redistribution
another little bit of info on hydraulic redistribution
why it's necessary to separate the pump bucket from the control bucket - rising EC over time
vastly increased pulse feed volume
2-3 gallons of medium = 21 day veg

update 2011 PPK module
pulse manifold and control bucket detailed how-to
new 'john guest' pulse terminal
tire valve size / tire valve drilling
tire valve installation / control bucket for bottom
updated latex tubing connection between the tire valve and the drip line
drilling the lid for pulse drainage
How much pulse is enough?
*December 2011* - New black box setup
black box cont.


introduction to light measurement
1500 umols
measuring new hortilux 1k bulbs
quantum meters
plant size, training, topping, positioning via 1k hps vertical
Vegetative light schedules
light regimen for cuttings

Delta9's 1k veg area

wick cloner detailed how-to and here
seed starting in the cloner devices

delta9 vs fungus gnats in coco
turface & rice hull mix preparation, list of several two part substrate mixes

defoliation

hash making detailed how-to


PPK PDF: http://www.4shared.com/document/pddBfqn1/ppk.html

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

It would make a nice tunnel for the gerbils to hide in.

Sold.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

I have absolutely no idea if depth of media makes any difference to our little friends as long as there is plenty of it.

Depth of media makes a difference.

The humidity profile of the media, based on capillary draw, is not uniform. It is densest (wettest) at the bottom, and becomes progressively drier. My observations suggest a conical shape in this profile from a single point wick.

All other things being equal, if you have a short-thick container of equal volume to a tall-thin container, you will have more solution in the short-thick container than the tall-thin one (and, inversely, a lower gas content).

To adjust for this, you can adjust your media to increase porosity and decrease capillary draw. Alternatively, you can increase your air gap if you have an adjustable float and enough vertical space within your sub reservoir.

None of it is a deal breaker... but...

3.5/5 gallon bucket, 2.5-3.5" air gap with coco has shown itself to be an almost-idiot-proof-starting-point... but pulse the bitch. Please. Automate that shit. So much better.

 

[mrcreosote]

Puddles hard and fast, then percolates.

Reminds me of Myra in high school...

*Sigh*...what a girl...

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

mrcreosote, I suspect you of possessing a criminal disposition.

Or perhaps you are just a chimney sweep.

 

[mrcreosote]

Hey IF,
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the moist zone will extend all the way up but it may not matter much because such a wide area relative to depth will be exposed for evaporation it may even draw air from the sides similar to heat causing a convection effect.

It will be interesting to see what develops. The worst that can happen is that it stays uniformly moist creating that perfect fog that plants in deeper buckets seem to enjoy very much.
I may have to make a mix with turface and perlite, which I do have locally because oddly enough, I can't seem to find rice hulls (at least online) in a state with more horses per square mile outside of Tennessee. (maybe)
Guess it makes a good stall bedding. Some phone calls are in order.

While coco grows fast plants, I'm not crazy about it for the reasons d9 makes about attracting gnats and other critters. I've read enough of the spider-mite and thrip horror stories to make me gun-shy of coco. It's not like you can avoid em completely by not using it but why help em?

My house is Mecca for bugs as it is...they make pilgrimages.
I spray the yard, they get bigger.
I caught them playing volleyball with the time release poison granules,
on the diatomacious earth beach I made for them.
My dog waits, watching his bowl til the cockroach eats first. He's no fool.

I'll play with perlite and kitty litter in the drain cups too. Kitty doesn't need it anymore. My daughter's cat finally made it to the Pearly Gates after 16 years. I inherited the damn cat AGAIN when she moved to an apt. and couldn't keep it.
I renamed it Dorian Grey.
Naturally, after having a few strokes and miraculous recoveries that would shame Lourdes, Kitty managed a Herculean effort to leap up on the upholstered loveseat to piss a gallon before shuffling off to Buffalo.

No bugs, no kitties.

My apologies to Mrs. D9 and her noble efforts to aid kittydom, but I have no love for piss-cats.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

Should have found the picture.

Ten years ago.

Coco is nice.

Other things are too.

Just don't invent a square wheel.

 

[mrcreosote]

Non-criminal.

Myra was in my history class.

I was a student, not the teacher.

 

[zeke99]

Not they would listen to me, but someone should tell the Hempy growers, even the people with only one or a few plants, that they would be MUCH better off with even the most simple stand-alone version of the PPK.

We just had the big heatwave, with temps in the range of 85-100 F for a week straight, including high humidity too.

Last summer, I had tomato plants in 5 gallon Hempy buckets (coir) that suffered massive stress during similar periods of heat This week? No problems at all. I topped off as usual with some water every day. No fruits cracked or died. I harvested three that were delicious and juicy. Flowers continue to pop.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

@sote: thanks for the clarification.

@99: true fucking story. Ran a garden for 60 days at 100... lost a bit of nose. Plant's were happy enough though.

 

[Slimm]

Here's a new one:

Repelling Fungus Gnats with Dryer Sheets

Gnatrol is a cheap and effective way to control fungus gnats. For bad infestations, as a last resort, I hang a no pest strip up for a few days to kill off the adults. If I use the Gnatrol from the start I don't need the no pest strip. Gnatrol is a bacterium that kills the larvae in the media. You have to use it for a few gnat life cycles (4 days) to get the entire population.

 

[daggerinmyback]

right now I sit where its a nice high of 75*F at most and everyone back home is whining about the 110+ temps all my PPKin friends back home have no issues except the A/C costs so damn much to run as it was 95* at 5:30AM there so even night lighting is a pain... the ONE PPK I have abused and ignored and not fed but off its tailpiece and a dump of 1gal a week finally harvested a nice 4 zips... I tried my damnedest to make it break and it still pulled that off a 600w (spare light only--no premiums for the stepchild) with no attention, oh it started cause I got dizzy and fell on it breaking it and it didnt die off immediately so I let it see what it would do... great smoke I may add but to be the 6th plant living off that bulb and the LOWEST yielder out of that 600w tent I dunno what I will do...

Ive played with 3 different setups, a side by side by side comparison, and now I feel bad that I am out living life so much I'm barely on social networking sites and I can help patients out for half the cost of others and I produce enough its still making me uncomfortable as I barely put anything into cost after the initial setup tents and lights/ballasts and buckets and hose was bought... smoking myself retarded and cliff climbing is a nice hobby I've since picked up, oh and a new life insurance policy in case that goes bad as I dont believe in gear for that kinda thing

I think the next run I'll just divide the 3.5 on top into 1/4ths with plexiglass thats slit-cut to fit like cardboard is in boxes they send bottles of wine in, so it gets the best moisture profile I know and can work with and I have the screens already built to slap on top... it would be like a nice PPK ScrOG with 4 plants per unit(same 4 cuts in each one so the nute need should stay relatively same) should = less veg time (I'm shooting for 2 weeks maybe 16 days max) then flip and harvest... if I do that should I use the 105-115w CFLs to do a mini vert setup... if I take it and put em a couple inches from each bucket it adds up to the same total wattage of both my HID's but less heat (as how much I exchange the air would keep it way cooler with less noise than the cool tube fans have gotten) and I like that they last longer than the HID's and I can mix the spectrums too...

any advice? I just think it would be easier to manage that way since now I can have 24 in flower since I am taking care of a few other people, but the addition of more lights would make my bill jump way too much just the addition of another 1000w for 12 hours a day would make it jump another 210$ a month... its getting ridiculous but they would keep the vertical aspect going CFL style and presumable give the sweet spots to each plant and hopefully allow me to use less space since thats the last limit in this area 10% or less of home space is the max you can use no matter how many people you care for ...

well hope everyone is great

later

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

dagger, not visualizing all the tech just yet... need a coffee or something.

But I did catch the vibe that some seriously positive things have been coming your way. Happy for you man. Things were tough for a minute, weren't they...

Best of luck.

 

[delta9nxs]

well, whats all this then? i leave for an overnighter and you guys start having fun behind my back. i feel so used. i'm going to take a long hot shower and call my shrink.

yeah, right!

i'll try to get back later and answer some stuff.

i've got to cut the grass (no, not that kind of grass) and do some household shit.

later on

 

[mrcreosote]

For those who just can't get enough tweakage in their life...

http://www.environmentalgreenproducts.com/store/adjustable-dripper-head-6-outlets-pr-16487.html

But get em here with all your other stuff.

http://www.sprinklerwarehouse.com/Drip-Emitters-s/131.htm

Micro-mesh bag for pump would probably be a good idea.

 

[ImaginaryFriend]

A WORD OF CAUTION:

As the PPK gets pulsed faster, perks faster, and has less media in the upper bucket, it potentially gives up some of it's mechanical buffers should their be a failure at the bulk reservoir, be it a squirrel chewing through the main line, or a sleepy gardener forgetting to top it off for a few days/weeks/whatever.

I don't believe the five gallon bucket is necessary for root zone with the strains I'm working with, but the added solution retention may be a nice buffer should something retarded happen.

And listen, man, "Retarded happens".

Not that I'm not stoked with the direction we're headed with the rice hulls (or whatever conditioner you choose) and the increased pulse volume and frequency (side note: may have mentioned this, but we hit a point as we increase where volume is no longer an issue (excepting overflow, which I've worked around with some bottom drain holes), and the intervals become what we tweak for performance)...

...I would just hate to see faster more porous mediums become so much the focus that for someone new to the PPK, the buffered retention of a coco-like-media be forgotten... a pump fail or not get plugged in, a line clog, and the PPK becomes inadvertently but truly a passive plant killer. (For lack of wicking.)

 

[delta9nxs]

delta9nxs,

Greetings and kudos for one of the best threads on IC.
I blush to think of how many times I've passed this thread by, Passive Plant Killer...

You might have to 're-brand' to VUPPK. Very Unsucessful PPK. Not a deader in sight. As a plant-killer, you have failed mightily.
The most fun and enlightening was watching the evolution of an idea and the clear and concise methodology backed with science and botany that lead to your conclusions of what works and why.
This is a boon to the community and many people who would ordinarily not grow for lack of knowledge or physical limitations would be helped by a 'set it and forget it' type system that is scalable to fit their needs.

I have been holding off growing for a long while because I've got (it seems sometimes) a million teenagers running through my house, and, while I trust my 18 yr. old son, he has a few friends on the edge of his circle who seem a bit shady. I'm in a very unfriendly state and all it takes is for my son to make one tiny slip up and 'grow-room' will be the small-town talk that moves like lightning in this place. I may be overly cautious, but Rule #1 already has a hole in it and that ain't good. I'm not sure if his potential for coming in for a windfall of herb can overcome that insidious tendency of teens to 'forget' they know something that needs to be forgotten.
(Being the 'cool Dad' who lets kids hang out here has a few drawbacks. I average 1 Dorito per bag that comes in the house.)

It's a tough call because your method would be virtually silent with no bubblers chugging away and running 5 gallon buckets of water into my den closet constantly.
I've got the basic 2'x4' closet with shelf to work with and using 7" roughneck 3 gal. tubs as res and pot would leave me about 3' to 3'-4" max height with 2 x 400w horizontal cool tubes or 4'-5" doing a 3 plant vertical. Since I want to do a perpetual 3 week(-ish) flower cycle, my veg shelf should be very easy to work. I'm thinking that a 3 plant modular horizontal scrog might put out a better harvest because a vert will only have a 3 week period with 2 sides lit. ( XOXOX ). Training stretchy skinny plants is okay but for 3 weeks I'll be lighting a plant back full of stem.
I'm just thinking out loud because the only way to know will be to try both ways and see.

I really like the valve stem bulkhead fittings and surgical tubing/ clothespin shut-offs. Stick a splice fitting after a 2-3" piece of surg. tube and 2 clothespins and shutting off the water to slide a bucket/tray out is a breeze. Cheaper than dirt and would work fine.
Very McGuyver.
The only trouble is that it gives me no reason to buy these,

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=37291&catid=743

Knowing you are more than familiar with surgical leg cuffs, (as am I. Monday I go to have a bile duct stent taken out AGAIN, after leaving it in too long AGAIN. I spend my extra thousands for Dr.s Mercedes payments.)

Hell, I may buy em just for the sexy-ness of it all.

Anyway, just a long-winded 'atta-boy' for taking us on a fun ride that's going to help a lot of people grow some meds without stress and failure.
Carl's thread about the Jack's Pro got me before I finally went through your PPK experiment thread.
Very glad I did. This needs to be a sticky for sure. You're gonna be famous.

"Yes Senator, first it started with a 'Killer' marijuana strain called AK-47 and now there are these high tech growing machines called 'The PPK' springing up everywhere. This proves how violent these people are when they name their gear after guns. They must be stopped now!"

Sheesh.

thanks for the kind words

i think a 2 plant horizontal scrog would be most efficient with 2x4' to work with and 2 400's.

i like those 3 gal rubbermaids. depth of medium is not so important if you are draining the pwt.

latex tubing and cheap spring clamps work great as on/off valves.

so you live in kentucky, are between 54-60 years old, and have had a liver transplant.

i used to have a walther ppk in .380, nice little pocket piece. i also had a 1943 officer issue walther p-38, a GI 1911, and one of those .45 british webley's. never fired any of them. editing to add that i also had a 1938 9mm luger.