PAR watts

[pumpkin2006]

I run 1000's and have yet to find a dealer with 1000w CMH. I have a thread in the growers forum (if you search for ceramic metal halide) and there's a link to a company that produces 1000w CMH, but I have yet to contact them. wish they just sold them in the hydro store... my hydro guy still tries to sell my bulbs based on lumens.....

 

[Guest]

I have actually seen the LifeLight 3K in use and it is a nice compromise. I still think that it is about high density or output all through the spectrum. The CMH is so well ballanced that it is hard to match. The Lifelight guys have found some neat spectrum response in plants through much study. They recomend the 6k for veg, the 4.5k MH for the stretch, the 3.5k MH for weeks 2/3-5/7 and the 10k MH high UV for the last 2-3wks. Holly shit that is a lot of money in bulbs!!!!!!. I tend to agree with them. But too much money for me. The best compromise is probably the CMH.
Folks get wound up about 1000w. Why? It is not watts and it is not lumens. It is a high Density full spectrum light source that is needed. SO true about the full spectrum CFLs!!! I may again some day do a very high density flouro grow as some of the frostiest, tightest, bushiest stuff I've done was flouro all the way. Not very efficient lumens per watt but who cares about that any way.

Current ceramic arc tube design has not permitted wattage in excess of 400w CMH as there is a high failure rate due to the brittle nature of the arc tube and the high pressure operation. Check out/google DBallast. They have released some nicely tuned square wave digital ballasts for the cmh bulbs. If I were to use a different bulb than the CMH it would be Flouro or a warm metal halide.

Best wishes

Azeo

 

[smurfin'herb]

http://www.sunmastergrowlamps.com/SunmLightandPlants.html

heres some solid info on lighting

 

[Guest]

Thank you for that great link. I think I have seen it before, but an excellent read/refresher all the same.

Peace

 

[Guest]

I consider myself fortunate to have the 250-400w philips 4k for 35-40 dollars U.S. I can not find a hortilux at that price and the digital square wave ballasts tuned to the 250-400w CMH may help me overcome the shorter life span as I do re-lamp frequently. I'll just have to wait a bit on the ballasts as they are quite pricey.

I am just out of the micro grow range as I veg with a 150w halide(electronic) running on an ARO aquarium ballast in 4sqft x 22" tall. I flower in a footprint of 23" x 40" I just have great temp control and a ton of full spectrum (density). I have to admit that the Canna coco line and their recommended regemine make it easy!!

 

[Skunkman_Vienna]

1)The only accurate unit for measuring yielding potential is the uE (microEinstein, not official unit)=micromols of photons per second (a mol is ~6,02*10^23 particles).Its far more accurate measurement of PAR than watts.


2)--------------------------------
So one watt of 440nm (blue) photons and one watt of 650nm red photons are both PAR watts. But the first carry 48% (near half) photons than the second, and as absorbance of both wavelenghts is very similar, the first watt have half the yielding potential than the second.

no offense to your second ,but:
that is physically NOT true !

blue light has a shorter wavelength,that means the photon contains MORE energy than
the same photon in the red wavelength.

afaik the plant has the same absorbationrate in blue and red,BUT:

photosynthesis can not use all the photon-energy of the blue spectrum and so the blue "overpower" quantum is coverted to heat and not to energy for the plant.

the advantage of HPS lights compared to the same wattage in MH is only the more
efficient production of photosyntetic usable photon-energy per watt .

theoretically,if the bigger green output of an MH (compared to an HPS) would be in the 650nm range ,the MH would perform better- for plants !!- with lesser lumens.....


one example for PAR und lumen:
i saw a sulfur-plasmalamp,which was (for me and others) much more brighter than a
HPS because of the greater green sensitivity of the human eye.

guess what,the 600 watt HPS performed better than the "brighter" sulfur plasmalamp.

ATM there is not much/no research in producing more efficient artifical plant-light
because there is no need in real-world-business.

for foodproduction, the sun is enough and cheaper and for sientific indoor plantresearch they have the cheap fluoroscent and HPS/MH combos to force/prevent flowering in greenhouses with natural light.

so as for the moment, in general you can say :the more lumen per watt (electric !! energy),the better.

we will see what the future brings....

 

[Ram Beau]

So good to know that you brainiacs are working all this out for me.

My eyes are burning.

My wife like to say "Don't forget to blink" when I'm staring intently at threads like this. so -

EVERYONE - Blink a few times and look at a distant object out the window for 30 seconds (while blinking).

peace

 

[SB7]

knna,

I just love reading your posts. I found you on another forum and use your spreadsheet when I find info on different bulbs I want to compare.
It's interesting that on paper, the mastercolor is no match for my grolux, while in practice it produces outstanding results. I do get slightly higher volume of finshed material with my grolux, but it has less density, so in the end it's roughly equal. On the other hand, the CMH end product quality is above that of the grolux. Taste, smell, resin content, and short stature that is extremely important in my micro closet setup
Unlike Azeotrope, I'm not at/near the saturation point, ( only have a single lowly 400W over 6sqft which makes my results even more interesting. ( well to me anyway)



Cheers

SB7

 

[SB7]

knna,

Just when I think I know something, I read your posts and realize that I know nothing ! -))
"At this irradiances, higher blue content have similar effect than increased CO2 concentration"
My rough calculation put my CMH irradiance @ roughly 800uE/m2. I didn't realize that level was close to saturation, as a result, I'm beginning to "see" why the CMH is performing so well when compared to the Grolux.


Cheers

SB7

 

[Guest]

SB7 -

At the density that I run on the CMH the node spacing will get down to fractions of an inch on any indica and make hazey hybrids and pencil finger sativas in general much more manageable. I do have a little height to bail me out on stuff like Jhonny Blaze and the like.(sativa leaning blueberry x Neville's Haze) Talk about leggy!! But as you all get crazy with the very intelligent breakdown I just know that in my gear set it works.

Azeotrope