oxigenated water

[Dignan]

GP saved the thread.

What is the "life" of the extra oxygen you introduce to water when aerated? Obviously the experience of the people who wrote the above article(s) is that oxygenated water benefits the growth of plants... but I'm just wondering how that works if the extra oxygen leaves the water quickly. (I don't know if it does leave quickly.)

That's a very confusing way of asking, if the oxygen only stays in the water for, say, 15 minutes, then when you water your plants, wouldn't the oxygen leave the water and then the soil before the plants' roots (or soil microbes) had a chance to benefit from it? Or does the O bond with the soil somehow?

(Sorry I am unable to word my question any more clearly than that.)

Peace-
Dig

 

[SEEDYNONO]

i still don't know what kind of air pump i should get.. i just want to bubble my water in a 5 gallon bucket for a day.. and bubble my teas up a day or two more after that.

think these little rena ones from petco will work well? if so what size for a 5 gallon bucket?

http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?R=4379&Nav=1&N=0&Ntt=air+pump&sku=646652&familyID=4469&

 

[Dignan]

That's a very nice pump, but if you're on a budget the $10 (10-gallon) pumps at Wally World will work just as well, IME.

peace-
Dig

 

[SEEDYNONO]

so something like this? the little 10 gallon one?

http://www.petco.com/Shop/Product.aspx?R=5630&Nav=1&N=0&Ntt=air+pump&sku=997609&familyID=14931&

 

[Suby]

Honestly I don't like the Rena Airpumps, find a pet store and look for another brand IMHO, anything that will keep a 20gallon fish tank aerated will do fine to bubble water or a tea.

I bought a BIG pump, the larger ones have a dimmer type dial which can reduce or increase airflow to your specific needs, to me in this case more is more.

Suby

PS Don't forget a good airstone, I like running two smaller ones off a slip in the airline, you can even run 3-4 just remeber to buy a splitter and connectors.

 

[Suby]

GP saved the thread.

What is the "life" of the extra oxygen you introduce to water when aerated? Obviously the experience of the people who wrote the above article(s) is that oxygenated water benefits the growth of plants... but I'm just wondering how that works if the extra oxygen leaves the water quickly. (I don't know if it does leave quickly.)

That's a very confusing way of asking, if the oxygen only stays in the water for, say, 15 minutes, then when you water your plants, wouldn't the oxygen leave the water and then the soil before the plants' roots (or soil microbes) had a chance to benefit from it? Or does the O bond with the soil somehow?

(Sorry I am unable to word my question any more clearly than that.)

Peace-
Dig

Water molecules are H2O, so 1 large oxygen molecule has 2 smaller H atoms attached to it, the resulting molecule is a sort of triangle.
You could say that a glass of water is like a container filled with V shaped molecules of water which are very small, when you stack V shaped molecules together you get interstitial spaces between them, this is where the oxygen molecules get trapped.
A water molecules V shape is also what leads to ice expanding as opposed to shrinking like other liquids when they are frozen, each H in the water molecule creates a Hydrogen bond with other water molecules and forms a bridge structure which leaves alot more interstitial space thus lower temps leading to an increase in DO capacity.
Pressure lower DO capacity because it cause the molecules to scrunch together leaving even less interstitial space, higher heats will excite molecules and cause them to vibrate or shake causing..you guessed it less interstitial space.
How long Oxygen stays in suspension has alot to do with these factors as they determine the poptential amount the water can dissolve, I would venture to say that bubbling up until you use it is the best approach, fish don't last long in an unearated tank of water.

Suby

 

[Guest423]

don't forget your submersible pump.....attach a hose to the pump and when it's feeding time you can plug it in and fill a bucket or container easily without unplugging or unhooking your airstone.....you can also keep a certain amount of nutes/water in your "res" and feed straight to your plant containers straight from your oxyginated bucket......awesome technique for you older soil growers,or people with back problems, lazy people, ect.......u can run a main line to your oxyginated bucket from your faucet or just "top off" whenever you feed and you'll never have to lift any heavy water ever again......peace

 

[Guest]

what about the air stones that are a large curcle and are flat, looks like a dinner plate... would that be better than just the dinky ones?

I also run two that are split with connectores. My pump is only for 15 gallons, but I run soil, so I only need a little more than a half gallon to water all my ladies.

 

[Dignan]

Thanks for the explanation, Suby.

Fuzzy, I use the bubble tubing (not sure what you call it)... the black, extra pliable stuff. You can bend it into a circle at the bottom of your bucket and, coupled with a larger pump (I use two 10-gallon aquarium Wally World pumps) it creates 1.26 shit-tons of bubbles. LOL That's a lotta bubbles!

Feeling a little goofy at the mo'

Peace-
Dig

 

[inflorescence]

59 degrees F...........................10.5 ppm
68 degrees F............................9.8 ppm

Oxygen isn't as prevalent in warm water as in cool water, so oxygen levels tend to be low -- about two to four parts per million (ppm) -- at high greenhouse temperatures, compared to eight to nine ppm in cool water."

I've read where people see differences in their plants (like in DWC) just by dropping the rez temp from 68 to 59 degrees.

I just find it so astonishing that organisms like pythium and organisms like plant roots are so sensitive to their ambient O2 that a difference of just 1 or 2 ppm can make such a huge difference in their life processes.

There's another thread on here talking about boron as a supplement and the difference between too little boron (~2 ppm) to too much boron (~8 ppm) is only the difference in a few ppms, similar to oxygen.

It absolutely amazes me that plants are that sensitive to their environment.
Just to give an idea of what I'm talking about, my hanna ppm meter lists an accuracy of +-2% full scale. The scale is 2000 ppm so the margin of error is 40 ppm each way for a total error factor of 80 ppm. Now compare this to the sensitivity of a plants roots which deals in one or two ppm differences.

 

[bigbear62]

Mornin Fellas ,Hey Dan this bubbler idea sure improved my ladies.Went to wally`s and got air pump,lines ,stones hooked up put in 5gl bucket, put heating pad under bucket .Now water temp 70,bubble 2 days before watering.Watered plants and boy what a deferance.I think they grew 1in over nite .Nice dark green
Toke On Bros

 

[Dan42nepa]

Great... Not really my idea.. I was just doing it to disburse any residual chlorine and got to thinking how water tastes left on a night stand overnight.. I did it anyway figuring it couldnt hurt.

 

[Guest]

I use the GH air pump, runs at 340 GPH

http://genhydro.com/genhydro_US/airpumps.html

 

[kamekazie Nazi]

Hello all..I have been reading threw this and am very interested in this ideal, but im just a noobe. I have an ideal and I was hoping someone might be able to point me in the right direction with it or just tell me if its worth the time or not.

If you had a 6 bucket "bio-bucket' set up and at the bottoms of each bucket you had a seperate air pump..very small and just had it run for the amount of time that your big pump run to fill your buckets up. Would this make that much of a difference since you already have the oxigenated water from it falling the 2ft back into the rez? Just an ideal..I know it would be a pain in the neck to run all those lines and keep it all straight and it would take alot of timer unless you could put it on some kind of computer program.. ... Just an ideal..

KNazI

 

[Suby]

Hey K, you can't compare the amount of DO that comes from an air stone to that incorporated into the water with a 2ft waterfall effect, the success of the BB system is the waterfall effect back to the rez abd the use of lava stone to colonize the rootzone.
Don't bother with air stones, if you need more DO in the rez then raise the return to 3-4 feet, if that doesn't do it nothing will.

Suby

 

[clowntown]

Hey K, you can't compare the amount of DO that comes from an air stone to that incorporated into the water with a 2ft waterfall effect, the success of the BB system is the waterfall effect back to the rez...

Why is that? Surface agitation vs tiny air bubbles rising through the typical 6-12" of nutrient solution + small amount of surface agitation?

IME, it's not always convenient or possible for everyone to set up a system with such a large fall effect. Sometimes that much vertical clearance isn't possible in some situations, not to mention the noise if set up in a small apartment setting. I've considered Bio-Buckets. I've looked at and studied many, many designs including the more compact, stealthy ones. But in the end decided it wasn't for me and my current situation, overall.

 

[kamekazie Nazi]

Hey K, you can't compare the amount of DO that comes from an air stone to that incorporated into the water with a 2ft waterfall effect, the success of the BB system is the waterfall effect back to the rez abd the use of lava stone to colonize the rootzone.
Don't bother with air stones, if you need more DO in the rez then raise the return to 3-4 feet, if that doesn't do it nothing will.

Suby

Thanks man! Just wanted to best I could give ya know lol

 

[Suby]

Glad I could help K.

C

Nobody said is way easy or convenient but a bio bucket system is no small task to setup. The water has gravity to help it break the surface tension and brings this water deep into the reservoir, agitation is what aerates the water and droping water from 3+ feet is much like a waterfall.
With airstones the bubbles that break the surface are the one oxygenating the mix not the one's making their way up through the solution, compare the power of an airstone to that of a waterfall effect on surface tension and DO and it's David and Goliath, part of the great success of BB is this oxygenating effect.

Anyone with enough space and is hell bent on a commercial grow IMHO BB system is the best hydro method period, include that to the fact that there is no res changes just addbacks you are getting the most for your fert $.

S

 

[clowntown]

How was it determined that surface agitation is what provides oxygenation and not the bubbles rising through the surface? I've heard the whole powerhead theory and how it requires no airstones, etc. Isn't surface agitation providing oxygenation by exposing the water to oxygen via surface area? So why couldn't small bubbles do this on its way up, since there is a lot of surface area to be had?

Also, I thought the success of bio-buckets was due to the beneficial bacteria on a large amount of porous medium, and the pre-colonization ... not necessarily high DO?

As for no rez changeouts... isn't that possible on just about any hydro system, provided that you know how much to add back? What makes the bio-buckets so special in this area?

 

[inflorescence]

So why couldn't small bubbles do this on its way up, since there is a lot of surface area to be had?

Because the bubbles are encased in a shell of surface tension of their own.
As the bubbles travel up no o2 escapes from the bubble into the water due to this shell. When the bubble reaches the top, the surface tension on the top is broken and gas can then permeate the water because of the temporary break in surface tension.

I've seen pics of insects that exploit surface tension by forming a gas bubble around their head and going under water to hide while they carry their extra 02 supply with them. Natures original SCUBA tank. Their o2 supply doesn't permeate the surrounding water because the surface tension encapsulates it.

Capillary action/surface tension is also one reason why large redwood trees over 300 feet tall can transport water up from ground level (their roots) to the top canopy 300 feet up. The trees don't actually "pump" the water up the internal plumbing of the tree but rather have adapted to have plumbing that is small enough in diameter to allow the water to "stick" to itself as it rises up the tree.

I even think I heard once why trees like redwoods can't grow taller than a certain height is because the force of gravity overwhelms the capillary action at some height and starts pulling the water back down. That's why there are no 2000 foot redwoods.