Overnite plant problem

[tip302327]

I missed a watering and was shocked to find what looks to me like a cal or mag def but I am finding that hard to believe. Any thoughts?


Lemon Kush in straight COCO 3 gallon bucket hand watered.

Week 4 flower

H&G @ 7ml pr/gal

PH @ 5.8 out

Temp 77f RH 40%

400W halide

Plants are about 3'
Thanks in advance. t

 

[thoughtcollapse]

How often do you water?

 

[tip302327]

Once per day.

 

[thoughtcollapse]

Let your pots dry out some before you water again. Two days of dry time in between feedings will probably help a lot.

 

[thoughtcollapse]

I don't really consider coco as a straight hydro medium but more of a soilless medium. Your probably making the coco to soggy for the plant to breath.

 

[itisme]

I agree with thoughtcollapse!

I just started up my first COCO grow too.... I am pretty much "treating it like soil"

I let it get somewhat dry and then put in some more water......About a 2 day turnaround, depending on how big you plants are and the amount of water they are using..

Others say dont' treat it like soil but I did a typical no run off style w/ my soil and now w/ the COCO - I do get it good and wet every two or three days though

 

[PharmaCan]

Jeez louise - are you people for real? Coco is not soil and it can't be treated like soil. Unlike soil, the only thing the coco is doing is holding your plant upright. I water my coco twice per day. I know a guy with a recirc system that waters his coco five times per day. I give nutes with all waterings and use clear water once every two weeks.

The last thing you want to do is let coco dry out.

tip302327 - Do you have drain holes in your buckets? What's the pH of the solution going into your pots.

PC

 

[thoughtcollapse]

You don't want it to completely dry out, but you dont want to overwater it either. Also, I didn't say it was soil, but more like a soilless medium in that it really isn't like straight hydro and nor is it a soil.

 

[PharmaCan]

You don't want it to completely dry out, but you dont want to overwater it either. Also, I didn't say it was soil, but more like a soilless medium in that it really isn't like straight hydro and nor is it a soil.

Man, you're just talking out your ass. Coco is coco - it is what it is. You can't overwater coco. You want to water coco frequently to replenish the oxygen supply to the roots, wash away the old nutes and other impurities and to replenish the nutes. You need to quit talking bullshit to someone who's trying to figure out what's wrong with his/her grow. Go read some of the coco threads, see how it's done properly, then go through a few successful coco grows of your own. Once you start getting close to 1 gram per watt then you can figure that you have it dialed in enough that you'll know what you're talking about.

As far as the soil remarks go:

I agree with thoughtcollapse!

I just started up my first COCO grow too.... I am pretty much "treating it like soil"

I let it get somewhat dry and then put in some more water......About a 2 day turnaround, depending on how big you plants are and the amount of water they are using..

My post was addressed to both you nimrods. I mean, jeez, here this guy is in his first coco grow and he's here in the infirmary talking about his technique like it has some credence.

It's great that you guys want to help someone out, but get some real life experience before you go telling people how to care for their sick plants. You are both at the stage that you should be asking questions, not giving answers. You are both using coco the wrong way and your yields and the quality of your buds will reflect that. They're your grows, and you can do whatever the hell you want with them. But, if your objective is to become better growers, then you should take advantage of the knowledge that is available here and get off your thing that you think your way is better. Search the archives here. Just about everything that can be tried has been tried. Pay attention to the growers who have their grows dialed in - they speak from experience and success.

PC

 

[thoughtcollapse]

Try both and tell me how it works out. I am not afraid of being wrong. I am only offering up advice through my own experience and if it isn't helpful then so be it.

Btw, there is a lot better and more constructive way to organize your thoughts here, maybe you should inform yourself.

 

[Citizen024]

Well your both right actually- though PharmaCan is more in line with the "standard" coco methods. PharmaCan is also correct about "coco is not anything like soil". But really there is a mixing of apples and oranges happening here- there is more then one way to use coco.

Coco is coco. Most of the time when you hear about failed or problem coco crops its because some one tries to treat it like its grorocks or soil- and it's neither. Actually running rockwool is more like coco in terms of the "how to's" of the thing.

Coco CANNOT be overwatered. How often you water it has a lot to do with plant to container size ratios. The smaller the container to the plant size, the more frequently you need to run it. It's a sponge, and once its full it just runs through. Which is what you want for all the reasons PharmaCan said. If you let it dry, and your watering nutrients all the time, you will in effect have salt/ph burn occur. Thats what I think happened to you.

That definately looks like burn to me. Perhaps N.

The water leaves the salts behind- too concentrated. Run to waste coco (basically what your doing) uses about 30% less nutrient then soil or hydro formulations and has special nutrient considerations. If your running "standard" formulas like it's soil, then all it takes is a bit of drying out, and your way too concentrated in the medium. This concentration will also through the ph off, which can lead to problems too. This is why we run less nutrient, and don't allow drying to occur by frequent waterings.

The run out only needs to be 10-30%. But it needs to be with every watering. And you'll probably need to run clean water every 3-5 waterings.

If you really want to get an idea of what in your medium, catch some run off and test it. I bet you will see ppm's about 1500. Your run in needs to be no more then 900-1000 in my experience- I have never used H and G though. If your using their coco nute as a backbone you should be okay, it is an idiot proof nute if used correctly.

And you surely pay for that convenience as well with House and Garden, and all its additives. The basic nutrients aren't that bad pricewise, but the whole line is generally overboard.

NOW THEN----- that said there IS a way to no run off coco- there is a great thread in the coco forum on it. It involves large containers (like soil sized) and a good eye, and NOT using nutrient in every watering.

Use coco properly, and you'll never look back at soil again.

 

[thoughtcollapse]

I have seen overwatered coco through my own experience. The problem here is that what works for one person is considered universal for everyone and that is not true. There are so many other variables out there to consider that are not being considered.

 

[Citizen024]

I mean yes, you could overwater if you just straight up soaked it all day long. Or if you have shitty containers, or too much coco (too tall of a container). But he's not having those conditions. I agree with you about gardens are not all the same- at the same time there is only so many ways the cookie crumbles and it's got to follow certain rules.

In addition his leaves clearly show IMO NUTRIENT BURN. PERIOD. It is so easy to spot- the burned tips, the speed with which it happened, the fact he didn't water for a day. . . I mean it's all right there. When it comes out of nowhere when he's this far along (3 feet tall) the first thing you have to look at are conditions that change rapidly: environment or nutrient are first on the list. Watering has been the same all along, why would it suddenly be a overnight problem?

Overwatering looks nothing like that- unless it is oversalted overwatering.

And how could he be having an over watering problem, when he MISSED a watering cycle? I am not trying to put ya down or anything, just straight up looking at the facts and not seeing it line up right. It's his call in the end anyways.

You may believe this is overwatering too because in reality when you saw this you were having nute burn. In which case your diagnostic is off.

This should go to the coco forum really. In regards to coco use, this is REALLY elementary stuff. Coco is pretty simple (but sometimes figuring out how to get it right can be complex), it's just unforgiving and frustrating if you do it wrong.

I am done with this- good luck!!

 

[Green-ninja]

do you have holes in the bottom of your pots?

 

[tip302327]

do you have holes in the bottom of your pots?

Yes the pots are WELL drained with many holes in the bottom as well as holes and slits up the sides with 1" gravel in the bottom. The only thing I can think off is that the pots dried out to much sending the PPM reading way hi. I keep the PH dead on in and out at 5.8 which hasent been a problem at all. Both these plants were all but spotless as far as how the leafs looked. Seems hard to believe that they could burn so badly in 40 hrs. but I never missed a watering prior to this. Oddly, all the other plants in the vertical garden (2nd week flower) though wilted did not burn and are in 1 and 2 gallon pots unlike these two that are in 3 gallon. Dang, what gives.

 

[medicine_man_bc]

it depends on the quality of coco. coco is optimal at 6.0 ph. low grade coco is packed with salts. watch "canna coco" on you tube for a full detailed insight into growing with it. i would feed with 6.5 till run off turns 6.0. conditioning coco preplanting helps tos. watch the video and rest easy;-)

 

[tip302327]

Yes I am perplexed myself...This is not my first grow and not the first in Coco neither. I started second guessing myself because this happened so quickly and only happend to two plants in the biggest containers. It was hot outside 105+ but didnt get above 87 in the garden. Point is I know the plants were drinking lots of water so did the PPM go wild and cause the burn. I feed every water but lightly and use H&G's drip clean. t

 

[tip302327]

it depends on the quality of coco. coco is optimal at 6.0 ph. low grade coco is packed with salts. watch "canna coco" on you tube for a full detailed insight into growing with it. i would feed with 6.5 till run off turns 6.0. conditioning coco preplanting helps tos. watch the video and rest easy;-)

I am sure that IS NOT any problem as I insure that when I prep the coco that the run off PPM is equal to the raw water @ 70PPM.

 

[tip302327]

Well your both right actually- though PharmaCan is more in line with the "standard" coco methods. PharmaCan is also correct about "coco is not anything like soil". But really there is a mixing of apples and oranges happening here- there is more then one way to use coco.

Coco is coco. Most of the time when you hear about failed or problem coco crops its because some one tries to treat it like its grorocks or soil- and it's neither. Actually running rockwool is more like coco in terms of the "how to's" of the thing.

Coco CANNOT be overwatered. How often you water it has a lot to do with plant to container size ratios. The smaller the container to the plant size, the more frequently you need to run it. It's a sponge, and once its full it just runs through. Which is what you want for all the reasons PharmaCan said. If you let it dry, and your watering nutrients all the time, you will in effect have salt/ph burn occur. Thats what I think happened to you.

That definately looks like burn to me. Perhaps N.

The water leaves the salts behind- too concentrated. Run to waste coco (basically what your doing) uses about 30% less nutrient then soil or hydro formulations and has special nutrient considerations. If your running "standard" formulas like it's soil, then all it takes is a bit of drying out, and your way too concentrated in the medium. This concentration will also through the ph off, which can lead to problems too. This is why we run less nutrient, and don't allow drying to occur by frequent waterings.

The run out only needs to be 10-30%. But it needs to be with every watering. And you'll probably need to run clean water every 3-5 waterings.

If you really want to get an idea of what in your medium, catch some run off and test it. I bet you will see ppm's about 1500. Your run in needs to be no more then 900-1000 in my experience- I have never used H and G though. If your using their coco nute as a backbone you should be okay, it is an idiot proof nute if used correctly.

And you surely pay for that convenience as well with House and Garden, and all its additives. The basic nutrients aren't that bad pricewise, but the whole line is generally overboard.

NOW THEN----- that said there IS a way to no run off coco- there is a great thread in the coco forum on it. It involves large containers (like soil sized) and a good eye, and NOT using nutrient in every watering.

Use coco properly, and you'll never look back at soil again.

I dont use there whole line as the only local store does not carry all of them. I only use the A+B, root stimulator, drip clean and the powder in late flower. After using the Dutch Masters "gold" line I thought the H&G line was lots better priced but that is the only two I have used. I "think" I am running the mix fairly week @ 7 mil's pr/gal. I only have a shit PPM pin that only reads to 999 so I can measure the input, generally but not the run off.

 

[EvilTwin]

Hi Tip,
Sorry your plants are having trouble. I've done maybe half-a-dozen coco runs and have had a variety of problems. There's a learning curve there. I tend to agree with Pharms position, except there are some Cocos that are ground really fine and actually do get soggy. Botanicare now sells two different levels or coarseness so that people can make a choice.

I always saw nute burn on the edges first and not on the tips. So I don't know if that's correct.

What brand of coco are you using...and was it clearly marked pre-flushed to remove the salt? Man, salt left behind can cause major problems by displacing other cations like K+. But I would expect problems earlier.

I have a buddy who grows in coco and he had very good luck using AN nutes with this feeding schedule: Full strength feeding, half strength feeding followed by plain water and repeat. I never used that. I fed nutes with each daily watering though certainly not full strength.
Good luck to you...
ET

PS: I just had an idea. Collect runoff, dilute with equal amount of water, measure ppm and multiply by 2. Wouldn't that work with your meter?