Outdoor Cannabis, How to determine the onset of Flower Phase ?

[dirty-joe]

First off I know it does not matter because they are done, when they are done.
Second, pretty much everything on the interweeb is about indoor grows.

So out of curiosity just what is the determining factor that tells you your cannabis has in fact started the flower phase ?

Is it;
1, Leaf blade count starts to decline.
2, A few "extra" pistils at branch tips.
3, Or something else ?

I ask, because one of my plants, call her GC#3, has 4-6 extra pistils at the branch tips today, and I'm thinking it is the beginning of flower. This will probably be the plant I want for my cross.
(Also it seems it still has 9 fingered leaves)

(Picture here in awhile)

 

[St. Phatty]

Males tend to express gender first.

So if you find yourself with 1 declared male & 4 un-declared 18 inch tall seedlings on July 22, PROBABLY 3 of the 4 un-declared seedlings will be female.

 

[dirty-joe]

Ahhh, I probably was not clear enough, all the plants are female, (and all over 4 feet) have had pre-flower for a long time.

What I was curious about is when do "people" consider the actual flower phase has started, IE when to start your 8 week count down?

Probably also a stupid question, as I said it does not matter, and the transition from pre-flower to flower is a gradual one, but say like the indoor guys who start counting when they flip the lights, is there some "sign" for the outdoor growers to know flower is definitely started. That's all.

Well, and to add, it looks like I'm seeing a few "extra" pistils on one plant I'm thinking that full flower has begun?

 

[Ca++]

Indoor there is veg, and there is bloom. Two states.
There is an area between them, where you are doing a bit of both.
We use at least 18 hours of light to veg plants, as any less and some plant's will not grow desirably. Putting out more hairs and elongating. Not fully in veg or fully in bloom.
The plants that first display flowering characteristics as we drop below 18 hours, offer some promise as outdoor varieties. Some will be pretty much in flower by 16 hours. Often we can't do an outdoor plant indoors, as it see's 12 hours as life threatening. End of the world stuff. Some indoor growers use this fact to speed up finishing, with even shorter days.

While you are seeing signs that indicate 5 days bloom indoors, you probably don't have short enough days to actually finish the plant yet. Though in a couple of weeks they will likely be well into the swing of things. Essentially those early bloom signs, are on a plant that is also still in veg to some degree. So they won't get a weeks worth of blooming done in the next week. These are not really weeks we can count as either veg or flower, but rather a true transitional phase.

Your seed vendor probably give you expected finish dates. Perhaps mid September. 8 weeks from now. Outdoor plants are quick if bred for cooler climates. My fastest serious6 finished in 4.5 weeks indoors. Few made it to 8 weeks.

It's really quite hard to weigh up, but you are probably in transition, with about a week until your days are really short enough for full on bloom.
It might be stretch that is the better indicator than hairs. Stretch is the last push of vegetative growth, before every effort goes into bloom.



I have used the classic ideas of veg then transition, then bloom.

 

[dirty-joe]

It's really quite hard to weigh up, but you are probably in transition, with about a week until your days are really short enough for full on bloom.
It might be stretch that is the better indicator than hairs. Stretch is the last push of vegetative growth, before every effort goes into bloom.

Thanks for all that ca++, said quite well.

If you notice in the post above your I used the exact same term; "and the transition from pre-flower to flower is a gradual one"
And re: the stretch, most my plant really haven't done "the stretch" they have been kind of averaging an inch a day for some time now.
If you care this is my thread/ plants, just scroll down
Thanks.

 

[dirty-joe]

It's really quite hard to weigh up, but you are probably in transition, with about a week until your days are really short enough for full on bloom.
It might be stretch that is the better indicator than hairs. Stretch is the last push of vegetative growth, before every effort goes into bloom.

Thanks for all that ca++, said quite well.

If you look at the post just before yours I said similar about the "transition" , "and the transition from pre-flower to flower is a gradual one"

As far as the stretch, they have been averaging about an inch a day for some time now, I doubt that is going to "speed up". I actually thinking that the shorter plants are going to slow down...we'll see.
If you care to look this is my thread / plants,

Green Crack outdoor, @45N

So, I had made a couple/few posts in other "general" outdoor topics, but I thought it time to start my own thread. Anyway, Green Crack, Apr 21 = day 1 (can show). They went outdoors on May 21 for good. Today Jun 15, Day 56. In tires on ground 38" tall. In ten gallon containers, on the roof...

www.icmag.com

As a new strain to me I guess I was also curious if indeed they will finish as advertised, and it looks like they will.

Thanks again.

PS I did something wrong in the post above ( a duplicate) see if I can get it removed.

 

[Gypsy Nirvana]

I think that I sorted it Joe - unless you want the green crack link gone too -

 

[dirty-joe]

I think that I sorted it Joe - unless you want the green crack link gone too -

No, Thank you.

 

[mikeandnaomi]

First week of August in California aprox flower start. Like your parents kids, some will flower earlier, some are late bloomers, some short, some tall... Seeds are and adventure.

 

[40degsouth]

This is a really interesting topic and one I’ve been intrigued in and researching for a lot of years.
Hey everyone, l hope you’re all well. Personally l believe transition starts weeks before we see it on the plant and as we all know is daylight hours driven, this in itself is the biggest giveaway particularly if you’ve been working with a strain for a while.
As an organic gardener l try to get the dry, bloom amendments on the soil about four weeks before the plant shows any signs of flowering. This works out to be around the end of December here.
Signs l look for for flowering though are, stretch slowing down, internode spacing beginning to shorten, the plant starts to thicken up and produces many laterals that turn into bud sites.
40

 

[dirty-joe]

This is a really interesting topic and one I’ve been intrigued in and researching for a lot of years.
/CUT/
Signs l look for for flowering though are, stretch slowing down, internode spacing beginning to shorten, the plant starts to thicken up and produces many laterals that turn into bud sites.
40

Thanks 40,
"internode spacing beginning to shorten"

That's a good one.

I am convinced that my Green Crack plants have indeed entered into flower mode. Even though day length has only shortened by abpout 45 minutes since the longest day.
The internode space has shortened,
Branches seem a little stiffer,
The smell seems more mature, as when you rub your thumb, and forefinger over a stem, it's wonderfully piney,
Not to mention the couple "extra" pistils I mention, and the overall look.

And hey it only makes sense, as 8 weeks (or 60 days) from now will be Sept. 25 (about), and I feel confident that some or most of these plant will be ready by then.

Not a great pic, hard to see the hair, but from 2 days ago you can see the spacing.

And I am completely finished with the pre flower pruning, virtually NO popcorn.

 

[40degsouth]

Yep, you’re onto it dirty-joe.
I think in another week that plant will have fully transitioned. It always amazes me just how fast and how much bud some plants produce.
I’m really looking forward to seeing your plants. The Green Cracks l grew were some of the biggest plants I’ve ever seen, one in particular was huge, unfortunately I never got to see them in full flower because it was the first year the leaf spot disease, l get here, struck and it destroyed nearly all my plants but was particularly savage on the Green Cracks.
Good luck for the finish, I’ll be hoping for some favourable weather for everyone.
Cheers,
40.

 

[Budgoodspin76]

Will sativa also linger a little longer in transition due to some strains having traits from strains way down south?

 

[40degsouth]

That’s a really interesting thing to think about Budgoodspin76. I haven’t had a lot to do with equatorial sativas here other than Golden Tigers, the Malowie leaners finished but the Thai leaners didn’t, before the weather set in, so the daylight hours weren’t sufficient to trigger early enough flowering for the plants to finish in time but they are 16 week strains, so l think you’re right, transition must be drawn out and take a long time.
Maybe Dubi might be about, or another knowledgeable member of the Ace team to enlighten us further.
I remember reading somewhere, perhaps in one of haze threads, someone believing the plants began flowering because of the amount of time they’d been alive, in conjunction with other environmental factors, which l thought was an interesting thought.
Cheers,
40.

 

[Montuno]

First off I know it does not matter because they are done, when they are done.
Second, pretty much everything on the interweeb is about indoor grows.

So out of curiosity just what is the determining factor that tells you your cannabis has in fact started the flower phase ?

Is it;
1, Leaf blade count starts to decline.
2, A few "extra" pistils at branch tips.
3, Or something else ?

I ask, because one of my plants, call her GC#3, has 4-6 extra pistils at the branch tips today, and I'm thinking it is the beginning of flower. This will probably be the plant I want for my cross.
(Also it seems it still has 9 fingered leaves)

(Picture here in awhile)

You are right. You started the flowering.

 

[Montuno]

That’s a really interesting thing to think about Budgoodspin76. I haven’t had a lot to do with equatorial sativas here other than Golden Tigers, the Malowie leaners finished but the Thai leaners didn’t, before the weather set in, so the daylight hours weren’t sufficient to trigger early enough flowering for the plants to finish in time but they are 16 week strains, so l think you’re right, transition must be drawn out and take a long time.
Maybe Dubi might be about, or another knowledgeable member of the Ace team to enlighten us further.
I remember reading somewhere, perhaps in one of haze threads, someone believing the plants began flowering because of the amount of time they’d been alive, in conjunction with other environmental factors, which l thought was an interesting thought.
Cheers,
40.

It is pure logic (and all my comment applies exclusively to my experience outdoors and at my latitude or similar, of course).
Under normal conditions, the "bottleneck" factor is that the plant is mature enough to flower (which varies between varieties/genotypes). And this is the only requirement for an autoflowering plant.
The other main factors are usually that the number of hours of light is shortened, and / or that they fall below a certain number (and the latter also varies between varieties / genotypes).
And not always the "supposed logic indica vs sativa" is followed: there are varieties like the typical Moroccan landrace sativa, or some African equatorial/tropical sativas (or at least, some specimens), that begin to flower as soon as the number of hours of light falls (semi-autoflowering) while many hybrids and indicas growing next to them take a month more to do so.
A real example (39°N):
"Greetings from the northern slope of Sierra Morena, approximately 39° N and more than 800 meters above sea level.
This is how the weather is here today; 26°C (79°F) nighttime low, 43°C (109.5°F) daytime high in the shade, and humidity between 10 and 45%.
View attachment 18739990
More or less, the same on 31-July; dusk:
King Congo (Congo Point Noire x Sounth African Ciskei Highlands; Tropical Seeds Company), born last May 15.
As I told you from previous experiences, being a hybrid of equatorial landrace sativa x subtropical mountain landrace sativa, it starts flowering earlier than most commercial indica hybrids: as soon as the hours of light begin to decrease. She showed first female preflower with only 1 month old.
As I also commented before, this does not mean that in my experience it has never been ready before November 15th.
The lower 5 nodes (10 twigs) have been pruned.
(The white powder is diatomaceous earth):
View attachment 18740001 View attachment 18740003 View attachment 18740004 View attachment 18740005 View attachment 18740006 View attachment 18740007

But of course, most of the varieties do follow the "supposed logic indica vs sativa".

 

[VenerableHippie]

Haze grower here. As far as I 've observed: Sun close to equinox then single flowers close to the stem. Sun after equinox then heads begin to grow.

Single flowers close to stem good time introduce male. Two days take away male, impregnated. A few seeds grow on stem ... seedless heads also begin to grow on branches

No seeds in heads but plenty seeds for next year when you (keep a close watch and ) remove the ripe ones from the stem with tweezers.

Bye bye ...

 

[St. Phatty]

That's what I'm wrestling with myself.

Every morning, I put on the reading glasses and go stare at the plant nodes on the top of the plants.

I need to transplant, but males & females are sorted separately.

Absence of Male parts is often a sign of Female status.

At least, in the plant world.

 

[ojd]

Indoor there is veg, and there is bloom. Two states.
There is an area between them, where you are doing a bit of both.
We use at least 18 hours of light to veg plants, as any less and some plant's will not grow desirably. Putting out more hairs and elongating. Not fully in veg or fully in bloom.
The plants that first display flowering characteristics as we drop below 18 hours, offer some promise as outdoor varieties. Some will be pretty much in flower by 16 hours. Often we can't do an outdoor plant indoors, as it see's 12 hours as life threatening. End of the world stuff. Some indoor growers use this fact to speed up finishing, with even shorter days.

While you are seeing signs that indicate 5 days bloom indoors, you probably don't have short enough days to actually finish the plant yet. Though in a couple of weeks they will likely be well into the swing of things. Essentially those early bloom signs, are on a plant that is also still in veg to some degree. So they won't get a weeks worth of blooming done in the next week. These are not really weeks we can count as either veg or flower, but rather a true transitional phase.

Your seed vendor probably give you expected finish dates. Perhaps mid September. 8 weeks from now. Outdoor plants are quick if bred for cooler climates. My fastest serious6 finished in 4.5 weeks indoors. Few made it to 8 weeks.

It's really quite hard to weigh up, but you are probably in transition, with about a week until your days are really short enough for full on bloom.
It might be stretch that is the better indicator than hairs. Stretch is the last push of vegetative growth, before every effort goes into bloom.



I have used the classic ideas of veg then transition, then bloom.

4.5 weeks indoors , wow thats nuts.
Thats got to be the quickest ive ever heard in all my years.
Was that quick pheno good or 1 of the best phenos from the pack ?

 

[VenerableHippie]

That's what I'm wrestling with myself.

Every morning, I put on the reading glasses and go stare at the plant nodes on the top of the plants.

I need to transplant, but males & females are sorted separately.

Absence of Male parts is often a sign of Female status.

At least, in the plant world.

No, Saint P ... you need to look at the junctions of the branches. Even on the main stem (trunk). Single flowers, whether filaments (F) or balls (M) will show there a week or so before you'll see multiple filaments begin to gather and multiply at the end of the branches as they begin to develop into flowers (heads).

Depending on yr variety these filaments may be very small.

My cannabis-Guru friend calls these single filaments, 'pre-flowers'.

(Sounds like you're over 40 years if you need glasses!)