Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Pimpslapped]

Where can I get some kelp meal,Jersey Greensand and liquid Karma?
I went to lowes and got all the stuff I could get but I don't know where to find the rest.

Good luck on your search there, Will. I can find the greensand at Meyers garden supply, Kelp meal I finally found at a small, hole in the wall local nursery/flower shop. Liquid Karma, guanos, etc... I still cannot locate around here.

 

[tiny_rabid_bird]

i've got plans to do a very small single plant cfl microgrow, and i'd like to go organic but i'm not exactly sure what would be best for me. I want to do a soil/soilless medium and i want to feed my plant well, but i also don't want to buy tons and tons of stuff for this simple little grow.

advice? Should i just get some cheap generic potting soil, cut it with perlite or coir and then feed with PBPro veg and bloom every 3rd watering? how much time/effort is expended in making teas? stealth is pretty important, so i'd rather not have some pungent-smelling mixture bubbling on the stove for a while.

any advice would be much appreciated.

edit: forgot to add, i'll just be growing some unknown bagseed.

 

[Pimpslapped]

i've got plans to do a very small single plant cfl microgrow, and i'd like to go organic but i'm not exactly sure what would be best for me. I want to do a soil/soilless medium and i want to feed my plant well, but i also don't want to buy tons and tons of stuff for this simple little grow.

advice? Should i just get some cheap generic potting soil, cut it with perlite or coir and then feed with PBPro veg and bloom every 3rd watering? how much time/effort is expended in making teas? stealth is pretty important, so i'd rather not have some pungent-smelling mixture bubbling on the stove for a while.

any advice would be much appreciated.

Well, hard to say what would be 'best' for you, since there are a lot of factors that can come into play. Do you intend on only growing the single plant, then stopping? Or will you (or do you plan) on continuing to grow single plants after that? How much soil/medium you will be using may affect your choices.

Time required to make most teas, generally anywhere from a few hours to up to 48, depending on who you ask and what you're trying to do. Very little effort is required and no stove use. Bubbling teas does not mean boiling them, as that would kill all the bacteria that we're trying to produce. Instead it means pumping air through the tea via an air pump and airstone (commonly used for aquariums). Bubbling is not 100% necessary, teas can and have been made without bubbling but it does help ensure that you have an aerobic tea and seems to improve the quality of the end product. My teas are made in old 2 liter bottles with part of the top cut off, a 2 gal plastic bucket, a 1gal gatorade bottle, or whatever else seems appropriate to the volume I'm working with (And whatever happens to be available/clean) and are done on the shelf in my closet. Smell is minimal, even using some relatively stinky ingredients (Alaska fish emulsion. If you've ever cracked open a bottle, you know the smell..) The tea will generally have an earthy sort of smell to it, like a handfull of loam from the forest or something. With my closet door closed, standing right next to it and sniffing I can't tell that the tea is there. Mind you I don't have the most acute sense of smell, but these things shouldn't stink up your whole place.

You could do what I did, which was go pick up a bag of potting soil and a handfull of various amendments that I could find locally (Perlite, the fishy ferts, etc...). The problem that I've really found with only 1 or 2 plants and using teas, is that you always end up with a lot more tea than you need. I don't trust leaving a batch going for more than about 48 hours, though I'm sure I could manage to start a semi-perpetual brew... That's one reason I tend to use the old drink bottles and such for brewing up a lot of my teas, as 2 gallons is FAR more than I need for 2 plants. Most of the time the tea is cut with clean water at anywhere from 1/1 water:tea, to 10/1 water/tea.

Edit: Bagseed is the best way to grow early on, IMO. No real investment needed. You can pick up enough dirt, amendments and CFLs to put together a 1 plant grow.. probably for under $30 (Depending on light prices). Actually the dirt and some basic tea/fert extras can probably be had for the $10 - $15 range, depending on prices around where you live. I could go to Wal-Mart right now with a $20 bill and walk out with a bag of potting soil, some perlite, fish emulsion, worm castings and probably blood and or bone meal as well.

 

[tiny_rabid_bird]

it's not going to be quite that cheap for me. i figure i'll end up spending about 75-100 on making the speaker box i've got into a stealth cab (paint, fans, lights, misc hardware).

this info on making teas is great help though. i've already got an aquarium pump from an earlier bit of dabbling in mycology. i'll look around at prices and see if making teas is feasible for me. i've also already got vermiculite, perlite, and brick coco coir on hand.

so far as potting soil goes, do you have any suggestions, or would generic soil work just fine?

 

[Pimpslapped]

Read through a few pages of this thread, also check out the other stickies in this forum. There's a LOT of good info on what can be used to make teas, etc...

Any decent potting soil can work, some brands are better than others and more expensive. Part depends on what you can find locally, but just about any potting soil can be managed. Or you can just mix amendments such as blood/bone/kelp meal, etc... in with peat moss/coco/perlite and use that as your soil. There are a lot of options out there, read up on them and do some browsing in local stores to see what all you can put together.

One suggestion on picking a potting soil is to feel the bag. Some of the cheaper ones are like half bark chunks, really not very well balanced soil for our needs. Feeling the bag pretty well can give you an idea what sort of consistency you will have to work with. Also a good idea to read the bag, see what it contains.

 

[tiny_rabid_bird]

yeah, i actually read through the first 2 or 3 pages of the thread. it's been a great resource. i just didn't realize how little effort was required for making teas, nor did i realize how readily available most of the ingredients were. i though "guano?? fish emulsion!? wtf do i get that?" then i realized there's a hydro shop only a couple blocks away from my house. huzzahs are in order!

now it's just a matter of seeing if the ingredients i need for teas are more expensive than a couple jugs of PBPro. Is it safe to assume that in your opinion, teas are superior to PBP? i suppose a large part of the benefits of brewing one's own tea is the versatility you have with the amounts of ingredients added.

and thank you very much for all the help you've given me so far.

 

[Pimpslapped]

Having never used PBP, I honestly can't tell you one way or the other which is better. PBP isn't an option for me right now, so I don't use it.

Teas are versatile and are meant to boost the microlife in the soil, which is a major part of organic growing. PBP as far as I know does nothing much at all for microlife, but does get food directly to the plants. I am a fan of trying to make use of as much of the soil as possible, thus I am focusing on teas (Intending to play with bacterial and fungal teas soon, just don't have good components for a fungal flowering tea ATM).

 

[Amber Trich]

I would like to point out that people who live near me all have water PH 7.5+

Using lime in the soil would be counter productive in terms of PH because you will always be hanging around 7+, causing nute deficiencies. You should at least PH your water occasionally to know what youre dealing with, as mine changes seasonally.

 

[tiny_rabid_bird]

okay.. so i priced the guanos and meals and compared them to PBP... i'm pretty sure i'm gonna go with the latter. it would definitely cost me about 3 times as much to gather ingredients for teas (at least at my local hydro shop) because they don't have quantities small enough to be economically feasible for my grow.

i suppose i can still see what walmart has in the ways of meals, but i'm not hopeful.

as of right now, i think i'm going to just do 1/3 ocean forest, 1/3 coir, 1/3 perlite for soil. then feed with PBP, maybe supplement with molasses during flowering or something. but that's a long ways away, i'll keep reading until then.

 

[BurnOne]

I would like to point out that people who live near me all have water PH 7.5+

Using lime in the soil would be counter productive in terms of PH because you will always be hanging around 7+, causing nute deficiencies. You should at least PH your water occasionally to know what youre dealing with, as mine changes seasonally.

Did you even read what I said about pH in organic growing?
Burn1

 

[Pimpslapped]

Did you even read what I said about pH in organic growing?
Burn1

I thought you were out of the loop for a while, good to see you around.

I think AT does have some validity though, with a good humates base PH shouldn't really be an issue. But not everyone does that. It seems to me like a fair number of growers out there seem to rely on dolomite as a cure all for PH issues. IE: If you use lime, PH isn't a problem anymore... At least, early on when I was first reading up on growing that seemed to be the impression I was given.

Also in most cases where a plants health issues seem to stem from PH, most people seem to look to lime first as the solution, or lack thereof being the culprit. Casual reading shows very little information on dealing with PH that is too high, always see lime being used to raise to 7.

 

[Mr Celsius]

RECIPE #2
If you want to use guano in your soil mix...
Bongaloids guano mix
1/3C hi N guano per gallon
1/2C hi Phos guano per gallon
1TBS Jersey greensand per gallon
1TBS Kelp meal per gallon

Does this not seem like A LOT of guano per gallon of soil?

 

[Suby]

Does this not seem like A LOT of guano per gallon of soil?

As a matter of fact it does...WTH?

Maybe B1 knows how it works, I've never relied on guano as a soil ammendment, I topdress and make teas with it exclusively.

S

 

[jaykush]

mr c i would go by what strain you are growing as i know some that would take that like a champ and others that would die like theres no tomorrow. to start i would base it off 2 tablespoons per gallon as thats a bit light for the lighter strains, then once that grow is done and it was not enough i would up the amount to what seems needed. the thing is to start low and work your way up as you get to know the strain better.

 

[BurnOne]

I thought you were out of the loop for a while, good to see you around.

I think AT does have some validity though, with a good humates base PH shouldn't really be an issue. But not everyone does that. It seems to me like a fair number of growers out there seem to rely on dolomite as a cure all for PH issues. IE: If you use lime, PH isn't a problem anymore... At least, early on when I was first reading up on growing that seemed to be the impression I was given.

Also in most cases where a plants health issues seem to stem from PH, most people seem to look to lime first as the solution, or lack thereof being the culprit. Casual reading shows very little information on dealing with PH that is too high, always see lime being used to raise to 7.

Thanks for the welcome.
IMO if you don't have a base rich in humates, then it's not organic growing. It's soil growing and has its own forum here.
Dolomite lime is in there to adjust the pH if peat based mediums as well as to provide Ca and Mg. I wouldn't count on it to correct the pH of organic nutes like guano teas or PBP. That's what the humates do.
Burn1

 

[BurnOne]

Does this not seem like A LOT of guano per gallon of soil?

The recipes I posted are ment to be a starting point for beginners. More experienced growers can easily tailor their nute doses to fit the needs of their plants. YMMV.
Burn1

 

[SensimillaWolf]

I'm currently having pH problems in organics due to not tailoring the beginner's mix to my water situation. Its pH is often as high as 7.6-7.8 and is very hard. The results were very red stems and crispy, dying leaves. When I realized this I switched to distilled and got some liquid karma, in the hope that it would enable the roots to absorb what it needed from the soil.

Does the humic acid in LK satisfy the need for humates? In addition to the EWC I added to the mix originally, of course.

 

[BurnOne]

I'm currently having pH problems in organics due to not tailoring the beginner's mix to my water situation. Its pH is often as high as 7.6-7.8 and is very hard. The results were very red stems and crispy, dying leaves. When I realized this I switched to distilled and got some liquid karma, in the hope that it would enable the roots to absorb what it needed from the soil.

Does the humic acid in LK satisfy the need for humates? In addition to the EWC I added to the mix originally, of course.

Your mix needs to have humates blended into it and they need to be active and working. LK has an extreme pH. Mine ran about 4. Therefore, you may end up with a nute solution around 6. Next time, use a good mix.
Burn1

 

[SensimillaWolf]

The thing is, I did use a good mix; the same one as in the recipe. 20-25% worm castings have been in there since day one.

It's still the same soil mix, its not like there are any toxic substances in there... why is this an unfixable, "next-time-do-better" situation?

Unfortunately I interpreted the "pH doesn't matter in organics" incorrectly; I didn't follow that pH doesn't matter because it's balanced in a very specific way, which basically means that it does matter.

 

[BurnOne]

Sorry. I didn't understand that you used that much worm castings. Did you also use dolomite lime? If so, your problem may be something other than pH. Hard water can actually help because of the extra calcium it usually contains. My guano teas can run very high on the pH scale. Over 8 sometimes. I use well water that is a little hard too. Never had a problem. Tell us more about your grow method.
Burn1