Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[GrowBigOrGoHome]

YO BURN, NICE READ!

I GOT A QUESTION FOR YOU THO.

IF I FOLLOW YOUR SOIL MIX #1 AND THEN FOLLOW THE TEA/KELP RECIPE TO THE EXACT TEE....I WONT HAVE ANY PH PROBLEMS, CORRECT?

THANK YOU!

 

[GrowBigOrGoHome]

REASON WHY IM ASKING IS BECAUSE I WAS REALLY CONFUSED ON THE WHOLE PH THING...AND I WAS TOLD WITH AN ORGANIC SOIL MIX AND TEA/KELP I WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PH NOR FLUSHING!...I JUST WANT THINGS SIMPLE

THANK YOU SIR

 

[lost in a sea]

REASON WHY IM ASKING IS BECAUSE I WAS REALLY CONFUSED ON THE WHOLE PH THING...AND I WAS TOLD WITH AN ORGANIC SOIL MIX AND TEA/KELP I WOULDN'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT PH NOR FLUSHING!...I JUST WANT THINGS SIMPLE

THANK YOU SIR

you were told the truth..

 

[lost in a sea]

I only have these ingredients for this one.
bone meal
blood meal
greensand
kelp meal
mexican guano
and i think psg
so thats what im gonna add to the
lc #1 mix
along with some myco madness and molasses water
when i recycle i will grab a few more amendments to get my variety going


? i hear people go back and fourth about dolomitic lime i have high ph water to begin with and its suposed to raise ph so i feel my water may be balancing my ph i curently add liquid humic acids and grow in lc "#1 with general organics.

other wise mix up the mix with 1.5 cu ft of lc #1 and call it good let it cook?

Then i would acidify the water and the pH will meet in the middle, and i personally avoid adding liquid humics in flower, imo it can exacerbate lock outs if the nutrient ratio is off..

just guessing that the water is balancing the pH sounds risky to me and i would at least want to test the pH of water and run off to be sure that was what was happening in there.

 

[bigshrimp]

? i hear people go back and fourth about dolomitic lime i have high ph water to begin with and its suposed to raise ph so i feel my water may be balancing my ph i curently add liquid humic acids and grow in lc "#1 with general organics.

other wise mix up the mix with 1.5 cu ft of lc #1 and call it good let it cook?

With hard water caused by CaCO3 dolomite would be a good option for soil since it has more magnesium. Calcium and magnesium compete for exchange sites.

I do the three way lime mix minus the oyster shell flour since my water is hard also. I also add char and other calcium heavy amendments.

If your not reusing your soil its really not that big of an issue.

When using fulvic / humic acids you want to bring your water down to 7 (i use citric acid) before adding them. Otherwise you are using your humic acid to adjust ph.

 

[Kozmo]

Citric acid

Citric acid

With hard water caused by CaCO3 dolomite would be a good option for soil since it has more magnesium. Calcium and magnesium compete for exchange sites.

I do the three way lime mix minus the oyster shell flour since my water is hard also. I also add char and other calcium heavy amendments.

If your not reusing your soil its really not that big of an issue.

When using fulvic / humic acids you want to bring your water down to 7 (i use citric acid) before adding them. Otherwise you are using your humic acid to adjust ph.

I personally wouldn't use citric acid. To unstable also it kills healthy bacteria. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[MrTea]

I personally wouldn't use citric acid. To unstable also it kills healthy bacteria. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Citric acid can be beneficial if used in moderation. There aren't too many purposes for it other than, say long term storage of aloe extract.

 

[trichrider]

lemonade...dilute citric acid, not too acidic, fortified with sugars...you can drink that shtuff!

 

[dank.frank]

If you want to lower your pH - quit thinking of it like hydro and using a "pH down"...

let me say this again...

SULFUR.

Around here - it all goes into the medium. Put it in the soil...and let nature do the work for you.

That is all.



dank.Frank

 

[Elements001]

good stuff, thanks man!

 

[bigshrimp]

Citric acid does not kill microbes in reasonable concentrations. Plants themselves use citric acid to regulate the rhizosphere and make certain elements soluble.

So no it is not directly harmful.

Frank - Do i add the elemental sulfur to my water before or after the fulvic lol?

 

[Kozmo]

Thank you every one for the leads on proper use of citric acid. I haven't a clue about anything to do with aloe. I will be searching threads about sulfur first though. Right now I am using advanced PH down for bi weekly nutriant mixes. The other weeks I am using compost tea by KIS.

 

[dank.frank]

Just google "sulfur to lower pH" - and nearly every single link will be a university agricultural extension...

But if you search for "citric acid to lower pH" you get mostly cannabis sites and random bottled pH down products, home brewing sites, etc...

Go figure.



dank.Frank

 

[h.h.]

Sulfur is taken up from the soil in the form of sulfate ions
(S04=). Sulfur may also be absorbed as sulfur dioxide (S02) from
the air through leaves in areas where the atmosphere has been
enriched with sulfur compounds from industrial sources. In recent
years the atmospheric source of sulfur has been greatly reduced by a
decrease in sulfur emissions.
Sulfur is a constituent of three amino acids (cystine, methionine,
and cysteine) and is therefore necessary for protein synthesis. It is
essential for nodule formation on legume roots. Sulfur is present in
oil compounds responsible for the characteristic odor and taste of
plants such as garlic and onion.
Sulfur deficiencies are widespread throughout the United States
and have been identified under a range of soil and climatic conditions. The sulfate ion is leachable, similar to nitrate, but to a lesser
extent. In low-rainfall areas it is frequently found precipitated in the
soil profile as gypsum (CaS04 ·2H20). Deficiencies have become
more common in recent years due to a number of factors, including
higher air quality standards, increased plant production, and more
use of relatively sulfur-free nitrogen and phosphorus sources. Some
have been prompted to call sulfur the "fourth major nutrient."
Symptoms of sulfur deficiency in plants include:
• Retarded growth rate and delayed maturity.
• Young leaves light green to yellowish color. In some plants, older tissue may be affected also.
• Small and spindly plants.

A major group of bacteria (heterotrophic bacteria) functions
in decomposing organic materials. A smaller group (autotrophic bacteria) obtains its energy from the oxidation of materials such as ammonium, sulfur, and iron. The latter group is responsible for nitrification
(the conversion of ammonium to nitrate) in the soil, a process that is
vital in providing nitrogen for the growth of plants.

Western Plant Health Association (2010-03-01). Western Fertilizer Handbook (Page 19). Waveland Pr Inc. Kindle Edition.

Every combination with sulfate I know of is highly soluble in water: iron sulfate, zinc, copper and manganese sulfates , potassium sulfate, etc. Even uranium sulfate is water soluble. Calcium sulfate (gypsum) is also soluble, but not quite so readily as the others. Should too much rain or irrigation flow through the soil, it can leach sulfates. Thus, having high sulfur levels results in a steady (slow ) reduction of nutrient levels in the topsoil. Farmers, counting the bottom line, have to work hard to keep costly fertilizers in the topsoil, so they might not want more S present than what is sufficient for the crop. The sulfate anion’s ability to connect with cations and keep them in soluble form is why this book specifies a high level of sulfur when there are excess cations to leach out. Sulfur Target S = ½ Mg until there are no more cation excesses. Then: S = P.

Solomon, Steve; Reinheimer, Erica (2012-12-04). The Intelligent Gardener: Growing Nutrient Dense Food (p. 145). New Society Publishers. Kindle Edition.

Correcting alkaline soils usually involves applications of sulfur and water, which becomes sulfuric acid. The acid reacts with the soil chemicals and becomes gypsum (CaSO4). While chemical gardeners have the most problems with pH, organic gardeners should occasionally test for pH, but normally need not worry too much about it. Just continually add compost and use mulches to increase the soil organic matter, which, in turn, increases the cation exchange capacity (CEC), food web populations, and thus its buffering capacity.

Lowenfels, Jeff; Lowenfels, Jeff (2013-05-07). Teaming with Nutrients: The Organic Gardener’s Guide to Optimizing Plant Nutrition (Kindle Locations 3025-3030). Timber Press. Kindle Edition.

 

[bigshrimp]

I searched acid injection (the ag term used) and got plenty of results, especially pertaining to alkaline water.

BioAg themselves recommends that you adjust the pH of your alkaline water to neutral before adding fulvic / humic acid. Which is what we were talking about.

 

[redclover]

I'm not a believer in nature taking it's course (PH wise) in living soil. Nature has pure rain...I have hard water. I switched to RO and seen instant results. If your tap is close to neutral and not over 100 ppms, only then would I let nature take it's course. Earth Juice makes an amazing PH down that's citric acid crystals. 1/4 tsp. goes a loooong way.

 

[h.h.]

I searched acid injection (the ag term used) and got plenty of results, especially pertaining to alkaline water.

BioAg themselves recommends that you adjust the pH of your alkaline water to neutral before adding fulvic / humic acid. Which is what we were talking about.

And sulfur is the preferred method of doing that.
I've used citrus for years. I like it. Good for chlorine dissipation as well. Good for the roots. Good for a few things.
Sulfur is the preferred method. I'm not sure why.
Look at the formulas.
sulfur S-2
sodium Na+1
calcium Ca+2
magnesium Mg+2
citric acid C6H8O7
With citric acid you would have:
Na3C6H5O7
C6H6MgO7
C6H6MgO7
The citric acid has to give up 2 hydrogen atoms which I think will result in H3O( hydronium) which has a plus charge again. The pH would go back up.
Sulfur should produce:
Na2S
CaS
MgS
with no residuals. It's an even exchange so to speak.
I think, maybe. Sort of makes sense to me. I'm very open to corrections.

 

[Microbeman]

pH has a place in organic growing but it is not something we adjust. If enough organic matter is present in the soil, it holds onto sequestered nutrients. These are released by organic acids excreted by microbes and by the roots of plants. These acids create a certain hydrogen molecule which creates a power of hydrogen or sometimes called potential of hydrogen OR pH. which releases an ionic form nutrient into the soil solution which a plant root can uptake. [cation exchange]

Generally a high level of fungi creates a more acidic soil and a high bacterial a more alkaline soil. This is mainly due to the type of plant which has evolved to grow in that soil. A balanced vegetable type garden soil usually settles around 6.4 pH.

When growing in containers or gardens people try to mimmick the pH soil type to suit the plant. If growing cannabis, it does well in a range from 5.7 to 6.8 depending on the moisture, etc.

If you have provided sufficient organic matter and minerals, it is very unlikely that your watering medium (water; CT, etc) is going to have a permanent effect on your soil's pH. This is more likely to be adjusted and balanced by the plant and microbes working together. If you try adjusting this, chances are that you may upset this balance.

Written recently by a guy I know

 

[tynody]

So it seems that people have jumped ship when it comes to Dolomite lime? What exactly is the reason for that? Someone mentioned that calcium magnesium carbonate found in dolomite lime is not water soluble and bacteria can't do anything with it to make it soluble so it's just sitting there kinda hanging out breaking down into smaller and smaller particles?

I applied too little dolomite to my super soil last fall and have found my soil became too acidic from the peat this winter and I need to fix it up so its usable in the next couple weeks to come. What would you guys suggest I do (in a per gallon rate) to raise the pH of my soil (right now run off is coming out between 4-5 pH) to get that pH a nudge in the right direction and to supply the Ca, Mg, minerals, whatever else my plants will need in this growing season?

Thanks in advance.

 

[BurnOne]

I've used dolomite in every grow I've done and never had a problem. Dolomite must be kept moist to work but it isn't very water soluble.
There are other sources of calcium and magnesium. Dolomite was the easiest option for me. And I'm all about easy.
Burn1