Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Snype]

48 Bags of Fox Farm Ocean Forest (540 Gallons or 72 Cu Ft)
Ditch These and get 3.8 Cubic Foot Bales of Peatmoss instead. Better quality and more control over the inputs plus you will save big money.

180 Gallons or 24 Cu Ft of Earth Worm Castings
Good Good

180 Gallons or 24 Cu Ft Perlite
(Fine, see if you can source lava rock or pumice cheaper and by the yard from a landscape supply yard) Not only will this save money but it will last longer than perlite for the years to come and it will provide some extra minerals etc.

120 Cups Powdered Dolomite Lime

NO. Get rid of this Dolomite lime, We've learned a lot about dolomite and It's not a good amendment, it's just for PH. Go with oyster flour, gypsum, crab meal, anything except Dolomite.... There is too much magnesium in it.

60 Cups Blood Meal - I'd use Neem or Karanja instead at 1/2 cup per cubic foot. Blood is fine if you have it but there are better ingredients to work with.

120 Cups Bone Meal - I prefer Fish bone meal but I'm a big believer that some mycorrihizae will go much further than adding a high P amendment and I might just avoid this all together and opt for adding myco to each whole at transplant.

60 Cups Kelp Meal

I like Kelp meal!

You have about 120 Cubic Feet listed of base material.

Peatmoss 74 Cubic Feet
Worm Castings 24 Cubic Feet
Perlite or Lava Rock 24 Cubic Feet

I personally would cut the peatmoss down to about 50 Cubic feet or maybe even less.

Once you have the cubic feet determined I would add a mineral mix and a nutrient mix.

Instead of Dolomite Lime: (4 cups of the mix per Cubic Foot or about 60 pounds per Yard)

2 Parts Basalt or Glacial Rock Dust
1 Part Gypsum
1 Part Oyster Flour

Instead of the Blood, Bone Kelp.

Kelp Meal - 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Crustacean Meal - 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot
Neem or Karanja - 1/2 Cup Per Cubic Foot

That works out to around 6-7 pounds of the above nutrient amendments per yard.

There is a very good reason for all of these ingredients and the recipe is effective.

Are you planting in the ground or in containers?

Do you have an local topsoil, compost etc to work with?

Thanks for the help! This is all new to me so please help me further. I'm planting in 30 Gallon Smart Pots in the Western Mountains of Maine. How is my new updated mix?

36 Cubic Feet Peat Moss
36 Cubic Feet Top Soil
24 Cubic Feet Perlite
24 Cubic Feet EWC
240 Cups Basalt or Glacial Rock Dust
120 Cups Gypsum
120 Cups Oyster Flour
60 Cups Blood Meal
120 Cups Bone Meal
60 Cups Kelp Meal
60 Cups Neem Meal

My base is 120 Cubic Feet. How does this sound now? Are the rates correct? Should I take something out of the mix now that I added some Neem Meal? Are there too many minerals in my mix? Am I going to get rich after this?

 

[Bambøø]

Someone is using organic potash (kalivinasse) ? 1st time with that amendement

 

[Hmong]

first of all THANK YOU burn1 for this amazing thread.

I tried the LC#2 mix, with coco instead of peat.
my first time ever with organics and I am really stoked so far.

the only thing is, that my girls alltogether show a sulfur deficiency since about 1 week.
even those on straight coco & hydro nutes.
the only similarity is that i used neem cake + DE as a topdressing against bugs. I still have root aphis around.

I am not sure if it is the neem cake or I did not used enought Dolomite or/and pH is too low?
with the neem cake runoff pH is always over 7 so I really can't tell, though spotted signs of Ca deficiency on one soil plant.

Is there a need to fix that somehow asap or will things settle down after more neem cake depletes?

this pic was from last week, today she looked well and had started to bud, but still has the S deficiency. my sativas in Veg show it even worse. I forgot my cam, but i will be able to make more pictures if needed, though I think you can see it well anyway.

 

[Bambøø]

Finnaly i will use it every 10-15 days as Top dressing, 1G/liter of soil // 0.0022lb/0,26gal of soil (sry XD)

Any comment is highly appreciate

 

[Snype]

Guys I can't find the Glacier Rock Dust or the Oyster Flour.


Should I get the powdered Azomite or the crystally one?

My last formula called for:

240 Cups Glacial Rock Dust
120 Cups Gypsum
120 Cups Oyster Flour

When I use the Azomite do I still use Gypsum? If I also am using Gypsum, do I need the pellets or the powder? Can someone give me a new formula that has how many cups Azomite and what other substitutes that I need to replace the Oyster Flour?

Again here's my recipe but I can't find Glacial Rock Dust or Oyster Flour:

36 Cubic Feet SPGM Peat Moss
36 Cubic Feet Top Soil
24 Cubic Feet Perlite
24 Cubic Feet EWC
240 Cups Basalt or Glacial Rock Dust
120 Cups Gypsum
120 Cups Oyster Flour
60 Cups Blood Meal
120 Cups Bone Meal
60 Cups Kelp Meal
60 Cups Neem Meal

I'm so close....

 

[Luther Burbank]

Snype see my response to you in your outdoor growing forum post on this topic.

 

[JediMasterVon]

Very funny.

Luv u bro!

♥

 

[MileHighGuy]

Guys I can't find the Glacier Rock Dust or the Oyster Flour.


Should I get the powdered Azomite or the crystally one?

My last formula called for:

240 Cups Glacial Rock Dust
120 Cups Gypsum
120 Cups Oyster Flour

When I use the Azomite do I still use Gypsum? If I also am using Gypsum, do I need the pellets or the powder? Can someone give me a new formula that has how many cups Azomite and what other substitutes that I need to replace the Oyster Flour?

Again here's my recipe but I can't find Glacial Rock Dust or Oyster Flour:

36 Cubic Feet SPGM Peat Moss
36 Cubic Feet Top Soil
24 Cubic Feet Perlite
24 Cubic Feet EWC
240 Cups Basalt or Glacial Rock Dust
120 Cups Gypsum
120 Cups Oyster Flour
60 Cups Blood Meal
120 Cups Bone Meal
60 Cups Kelp Meal
60 Cups Neem Meal

I'm so close....

Azomite is a trace mineral source.

Gypsum is for calcium and sulfur.

Oyster is for calcium mainly.

Elements that are high in calcium are typically called liming agents as they will raise the PH and work well with peatmoss which is naturally acidic. Here is a blog post referencing coot on liming agents. Liming Agents

The Glacial Rock Dusts, Azomite, Basalt, greensand, and many others are considered rock dusts.

Here is a free book on rock dust that is really old.

Bread From Stones

I could some it up for you. "Rock dust is good"

Keeping your total rock dust mixture at around 4 cups per cubic foot will be just fine. Some people might double that amount but there is a diminishing point of returns and it's best to use proven amounts.

One easy way is to weigh 1 cup of your rock dust and extrapolate the weight from there.

Gypsum is just calcium sulfate, the "prilled" pellets will break up upon contact with moisture and are much the same as the find gypsum powder that you'll see on the shelf. The Pellets are usually held together with a very small amount of molasses. Get whatever is affordable and convenient to you. But you'll still want to add a rock dust like Basalt, Azomite, Glacial etc.

On another note. That is a lot of topsoil in your mix. My topsoil is very heavy and I like to use 5% while a lighter topsoil I might use up to 15% maximum.

I haven't used Bone and Blood in a while but that sounds about right. I think bone is 10% phosphate which is only 4.4% actual P but my memory could be off. The gypsum will really help maximize this with the sulfur.

The neem is a good well rounded source of nutrients where as your Blood Meal is really just a faster release N source... at least that is my understanding as I don't use Blood Meal. Maybe someone else can chime in here and make sure your numbers are right on the blood meal.

Are you going to use a mulch or maybe a cover crop?

 

[analogcricket]

The neem is a good well rounded source of nutrients where as your Blood Meal is really just a faster release N source...

are you talking about neem seed meal? or neem cake? (is there a difference)

Are you going to use a mulch or maybe a cover crop?

what exactly is considered mulch? can you use straw? what are other options?

 

[Luther Burbank]

Neem seed meal and neem cake are the same product.

 

[Bueno Time]

Oh, okay. I misunderstood. I thought you were growing the canna in the aqua set up as well.

RO water is the way to go, in my opinion...but I'd still take the time to bubble the water you currently have and test it again - just to see if you do have an acceptable water source.

A RO system eliminates any concern or issue you could have about your water though.



dank.Frank

I don't understand why you are having to check the pH of you water source in the first place. If you have the proper buffers in the soil...it all balances out, naturally.

pH of RO is typically around 5.5 - 6.0 ... however, pH it's not something I ever worry about.

I suggest RO water not because of pH - but because of it's extremely low EC. The fact it is considered "pure" and the end result is consistent, it eliminates a variable in the equation of growing. You never have to worry about the water source being the problem or causing any issue being experienced.

I agree 100%. Switched to RO water and stopped ph adjusting a couple years ago and my plants have done so much better.

 

[redclover]

RO got rid of my early fade issues! I can't believe I've been spending all the money on gear, genetics, and organic labor WHILE forgetting how important good water was. I assumed my worm poo/peat would take care of any hard (high PH) tap...I was way off.

 

[johnkneefive]

hi im new to organics an am trying to mix my first batch of organic soil,so i can just add water to it from start to finish.. i went to canadian tire and grabbed

bonemeal
bloodmeal
powdered lime

worm castings ?? http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/outdo...AskAndAnswer&utm_content=Default#.U2ty6XbnQxE

kelp meal ?? Triple Mix + Kelp http://www.canadiantire.ca/en/pdp/cil-plus-triple-mix-kelp-8-5-kg-0594596p.html#.U2tzO3bnQxE

mixed with promix hp

my question is will the worm casting compost and triple mix+kelp work?? or must i get 100% ewc and pure kelp meal?
and if what i have will work ,any recommendations on how i should mix it up.. what ratios?

i also have rubicon liquid fish and liquid seaweed

is there anything else i should add or needed?
thanks

 

[lost in a sea]

john if you use those base soils i doubt you will need to add anymore to it than you have planned on..

rock dust if you can get it would add a better range of mineral clays but there will be lots of humics in those bases which will help the cation exchange..

I think the ratio you would mix at would depend on the volume of soil you need at the end.

the worm casting compost and kelp compost you bought will work together and i don't think either will have a very high NPK, the casting say .5.5.5 and the kelp doesn't say so that must be equally low in them so you can add bone/blood meal and the lime to them.

everytime you use a new base soil that you haven't made up you will need to learn how to amend it for the best results and i would probably say go easier on amendments rather than OTT until you have had a grow out of it, you can always use teas and top dress if you need to add something later on in the first grow.

your lighting, environment and vegitative time will all affect what it gets through and needs the most and how effective the soil mix is.

i would personally rather use alfalfa pellets or comfrey or something else other than blood/bone meal as it works better with the soil life, imo..

 

[johnkneefive]

hi lost in a sea,, just what i was hoping to hear
i will try find rock dust and add it in to the mix..

do you think if i started with a 1 cu ft of mix

3 parts promix hp
1 part kelp mix
1 part worm compost
1 cup lime
1/2 cup bloodmeal
1/4 cup bonemeal
would it be a good starting point , or is it maybe to strong?
and should i let it cook for a week or so after mixing?

i veg under t5s and flower with 600w hps

sorry for the real noob questions
thank you for the reply

john if you use those base soils i doubt you will need to add anymore to it than you have planned on..

rock dust if you can get it would add a better range of mineral clays but there will be lots of humics in those bases which will help the cation exchange..

I think the ratio you would mix at would depend on the volume of soil you need at the end.

the worm casting compost and kelp compost you bought will work together and i don't think either will have a very high NPK, the casting say .5.5.5 and the kelp doesn't say so that must be equally low in them so you can add bone/blood meal and the lime to them.

everytime you use a new base soil that you haven't made up you will need to learn how to amend it for the best results and i would probably say go easier on amendments rather than OTT until you have had a grow out of it, you can always use teas and top dress if you need to add something later on in the first grow.

your lighting, environment and vegitative time will all affect what it gets through and needs the most and how effective the soil mix is.

i would personally rather use alfalfa pellets or comfrey or something else other than blood/bone meal as it works better with the soil life, imo..

 

[lost in a sea]

the promix has calcitic and dolomitic lime in so i might be tempted to only do 1/4-1/2 a cup of lime at the most if i were you.. Or i'm not sure if i wouldn't give that a miss all together to be honest and i would just make sure the soil is rich in humics and organics that also help the bacteria balance the pH and rely on the ca in the promix for the fist time i used the mix, is up to you really.

other than that i would say that seems a safe enough mix to start with.. I've never used promix hp though so someone elses opinion would be very useful

 

[johnkneefive]

thank you again lost at sea for the replies..

i'll cut back on the lime i forgot it was in the promix...i will toss it all together and post up some results of mix and how it works for me..

 

[lost in a sea]

Good idea, it couldn't hurt to let it cook for a week and i often brew up a nice bacterial tea to mix in with it when i let the mix sit for a while..

You could also add biochar if you come across a good source, and sometimes i also add guano when i am making up a flowering mix to pot up into..

 

[johnkneefive]

this maybe a silly question, but can i use liquid seaweed to make a tea to add to it..i ran out of liquidkarma but have molasses

i will search around for biochar.. how much wold you recomend i add

i know i should know this but sometimes the most obvious slips right by me..

 

[lost in a sea]

No worries dude.. the seaweed is better for fungal teas rather than bacterial but will only add to the magic going on in there..

molasses is perfect, unsulphured black strap i hope? as seems to be the consensus ideal molasses.. with the usual vermicompost/EWC tea bag, bubbler and possibly fish tank heater if you need, put them together with the seaweed and give it a good 48 hours plus..

I like using the Earth juice nutrients as another additive to teas but get great results without..

with biochar i just add a cup or two per cubic foot, it doesn't really add nutrients more creates a great environment for bacteria..