Organic 'Water only' grow question???

[stlsoldier531]

Ok, so here is the deal. I would like to do a water only grow. But the problem is, most soils that have enough nutrients in them are too hot for seedlings.

I would like to use a soil called Plagron Royalty Mix. It says that it last for up to 8 weeks. This is perfect for most auto flowering plants because they usually go from seed to harvest in that amount of time. Which means that I would not have to add any nutrients throughout the entire grow.

This would be perfect but the problem is this...how do I start them straight into their final pot without burning them?

Some growers start them in peat pots or plastic cups but I prefer not to do it this way because I have read that they have a tap root that grows down towards the bottom of the pot first before it sends out any side roots. If this is true, then I wouldn't want to stunt the growth of the tap root and risk stunting the growth of the plant. And they usually only have a 2 or 3 week vegetative period as is and it can't be controlled. So I figure the root needs all the growth that it can possibly get.

In photo period strains it is ok to start them in cups because they can be vegged longer, meaning they can have more time to grow in size. So if the root reaches the bottom of the cup, it will have plenty of time to resume growth after being re potted...

So my question is this, suppose I fill the pot half way with the Royalty Mix (which is fertilized) and the top half of the pot with a Light Mix (lightly fertilized for seedlings)....would this be a good way of doing it? This way I can let the tap root grow free, but still avoid burning the young seedling..

Has anyone ever done it this way?? If so, were the yields higher than first starting them in something small and then transplanting?

or

I was also wondering, that if I add microbes to the royalty mix and let it sit out for two weeks would it cool down enough to be able to plant seedlings in it without burning them...and skip using the light mix altogether??

Thanks for any replies...

 

[cyber echo]

Hey mate,
I was about to use the same soil mix myself. You in the netherlands ? Its a local company.
Have you heard that this mix is hot ?
Their description states that the nutes are released over time when the plant needs it.
I guess you can try with 1 seed and see how it fares straight into the plagron.
That's what I'm going to do...

 

[happycamper15]

I use one gallon orange juice jugs as pots and use Miracle Gro Potting Mix and sometimes Moisture Control, but Potting Mix is better. My plants go 6-7 weeks before they start to see signs of nutrient deficiency. I use plain water from start to finish. This is perfect, as it allows a couple of weeks without nutes, almost like a flush! Works perfect for those 8-9 week strains, but the larger autos need a couple weeks longer, and you may need to supplement for a week or two before flushing.

 

[wisco61]

This special potting soil was developed in Holland and is, in our opinion, the best soil for organic cultivation. It consists of White peat, Baltic peat, Irish peat, sphagnum peat moss and Black peat comprising 60% of the total volume. The remainder consists of 20% worm compost, 15% perlite and 5% bio super mix which is a concentrated selection of biological fertilisers containing minerals, bacteria, vitamins, blood-meal, bone-dust, basalt-dust, bentonite, seaweed meal, guano and lava-dust. The complete mix is a ready to use, completely biologically mixed potting compost with a pH between 5.9-6.2 and an EC of 1.3.

The compost will only need water for the first 5-6 weeks of cultivation because of the amount of nutrient already present in the compost.

Sounds like good stuff. You should be able to plant directly into that, its organic so the plant is only gonna use what it needs. I would still fill the pots, water and let them sit for a few days before planting to let everything even out. You could add at planting or top dress at 4 weeks some more bone meal or flowering guano just to make sure it has enough food to finish. I would also water it with some molasses water once a week. Aerated Compost Tea would also help.

 

[GMT]

Another Lazy Grower in the making I see. Straight water grows are great, I swear by them, but to get the most out of them, I do feel that repotting is a usefull tool. A plant will always try to maximise its root growth and so by restricting the area of the root mass to start with, you can then repot at the point that they start to flower. I know some hate this idea but it works well when lazy growing. It ensures that there is a rich new source of nutrients available to the roots at the time that they need them most. Layering your compost is a good idea too, though be aware that it takes next to no time at all for the plant to reach through the light compost to the hotter stuff. I have been known to reuse compost from a previous grow in the first pot, for the seedlings, before repotting to the bigger veg pot using one type of compost and then into the final tub using the hottest type. But then I use dont use autoflowerers. In your case I'd use 1 repot, starting with the lighter ompost then into the final tub of hot stuff at first signs of flowering.

 

[Zendo]

If you wish to plant into final container you can always fill your soil container, minus a large pint glass area in the middle.

You can put a pint glass in there, fill up the soil around it, so the pint glass is level with the top of your soil..

Then , pull out the pint glass, and fill that area with a 'seedling' mix, of some kind of starter soil, or a cut down version of the soil you are using mixed with earthworm castings and perlite or such..By the time it fills into that 'seedling' space, it should be at a point where it can handle the 'hotter' soil.

YMMV.

 

[stlsoldier531]

Hey mate,
I was about to use the same soil mix myself. You in the netherlands ? Its a local company.
Have you heard that this mix is hot ?
Their description states that the nutes are released over time when the plant needs it.
I guess you can try with 1 seed and see how it fares straight into the plagron.
That's what I'm going to do...

I have heard a report from a guy on the forum, that it can be a little hot for seedlings in the beginning...but I haven't used it myself to confirm.

here is the thread where a guy started seeds in plagron royalty...

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=134653

I am actually in New York, so I was thinking of ordering it online. There is a place in the UK that ships to the USA (for an extra charge)

They always have all the Good stuff in the UK..lol..

But from what I have been reading this soil is amazing...you don't even have to add microbes to it...they are already in the soil..

 

[stlsoldier531]

I use one gallon orange juice jugs as pots and use Miracle Gro Potting Mix and sometimes Moisture Control, but Potting Mix is better. My plants go 6-7 weeks before they start to see signs of nutrient deficiency. I use plain water from start to finish. This is perfect, as it allows a couple of weeks without nutes, almost like a flush! Works perfect for those 8-9 week strains, but the larger autos need a couple weeks longer, and you may need to supplement for a week or two before flushing.

I have heard many mixed reports about MG soil...Some people hate it and some love it...I have been thinking of giving it a try myself...I have heard many good things about the Moisture Control...and have seen some pretty Fat plants with Fat buds grown in it...Thanks Happycamper

 

[stlsoldier531]

Sounds like good stuff. You should be able to plant directly into that, its organic so the plant is only gonna use what it needs. I would still fill the pots, water and let them sit for a few days before planting to let everything even out. You could add at planting or top dress at 4 weeks some more bone meal or flowering guano just to make sure it has enough food to finish. I would also water it with some molasses water once a week. Aerated Compost Tea would also help.

That's what I was thinking...Maybe it needs some time to sit out and cool down. I am thinking that some people just take it right out of the bag and plant in it...And from what I have learned is that organic soil she be prepared first before planting...by letting it sit out for a week or two...water it..keep it moist..turn it every few days...to give everything time to mix and stabilize...

I am thinking it would work A LOT better that way..

And Molasses sounds like a great idea...I will have to pick some up


Thanks wisco for confirming that for me....

 

[stlsoldier531]

Another Lazy Grower in the making I see. Straight water grows are great, I swear by them, but to get the most out of them, I do feel that repotting is a usefull tool. A plant will always try to maximise its root growth and so by restricting the area of the root mass to start with, you can then repot at the point that they start to flower. I know some hate this idea but it works well when lazy growing. It ensures that there is a rich new source of nutrients available to the roots at the time that they need them most. Layering your compost is a good idea too, though be aware that it takes next to no time at all for the plant to reach through the light compost to the hotter stuff. I have been known to reuse compost from a previous grow in the first pot, for the seedlings, before repotting to the bigger veg pot using one type of compost and then into the final tub using the hottest type. But then I use dont use autoflowerers. In your case I'd use 1 repot, starting with the lighter ompost then into the final tub of hot stuff at first signs of flowering.

Hahahahahaha...yes GMT, that is definitely me...the next lazy grower...to me the best grow is an easy grow..the less stress...the better for me and the plants..lol...

I was actually thinking the same thing...that the tap root would stretch through lighter mix fairly quickly without any restriction....and into the hot mix...I was actually looking at something called Cowpots today...don't know if you ever heard of them but they seem as though they would be good for creating that early root mass that you speak of..take a look and tell me what you think..

The one on the right is a cowpot and the one left is a peat pot...they are suppose to hold up for like 12 weeks if they are not put into soil and left out in the open (depending on climate)...but once they are put into soil they break down quickly..they are made out of dried cow manure..lol...they come in different sizes..even come as 6 inch round pots...

And they are also said to hold a lot of moisture which is what young seedlings need

They actually allow roots to penetrate easily and as they break down they release nutrients to the roots...

Here is the link to the site..some new invention this farmer came up with and everyone in the horticulture community has been raving about

http://www.cowpots.com/buybulkcowpots.html

So I am thinking of giving them a try

Thanks GMT...

 

[GMT]

Hi
I think they may have some great uses in general usage, but not so much for us. Esp in auto flowerers. Odds are by the time those little pots have broken down and start letting the roots through, you'll want to be harvesting the grow. I really think that just using the most basic of tools and methods properly, you will out perform the latest high tech gizmos and bottles around when used improperly. seed, compost, light source, the right amount of water, then at flowering a new bigger pot, more compost, light and water, then hervest. No fuss, no stress, lots of weed. Lets not make it harder than it needs to be.

 

[stlsoldier531]

If you wish to plant into final container you can always fill your soil container, minus a large pint glass area in the middle.

You can put a pint glass in there, fill up the soil around it, so the pint glass is level with the top of your soil..

Then , pull out the pint glass, and fill that area with a 'seedling' mix, of some kind of starter soil, or a cut down version of the soil you are using mixed with earthworm castings and perlite or such..By the time it fills into that 'seedling' space, it should be at a point where it can handle the 'hotter' soil.

YMMV.

Hahahaha... it's funny you should say that..I was actually thinking of filling up the pot with the heavier mix first, then scoop out a hole in the middle and fill it in with a light mix....but the Glass idea is even better...Thanks

 

[stlsoldier531]

Hi
I think they may have some great uses in general usage, but not so much for us. Esp in auto flowerers. Odds are by the time those little pots have broken down and start letting the roots through, you'll want to be harvesting the grow. I really think that just using the most basic of tools and methods properly, you will out perform the latest high tech gizmos and bottles around when used improperly. seed, compost, light source, the right amount of water, then at flowering a new bigger pot, more compost, light and water, then hervest. No fuss, no stress, lots of weed. Lets not make it harder than it needs to be.

I agree 100%

 

[vicious bee]

I know someone that only grows with Miracle Gro Moisture Control soil. His autos always look huge. Really impressive. I personally hate soil indoors. I got some Miracle Gro Organic soil that had fungus gnats in it. I'm still trying to kill off those evil bastards.

 

[stlsoldier531]

I know someone that only grows with Miracle Gro Moisture Control soil. His autos always look huge. Really impressive. I personally hate soil indoors. I got some Miracle Gro Organic soil that had fungus gnats in it. I'm still trying to kill off those evil bastards.

Yeah the Organic MG is known to come with fungus Gnats....

Does you buddy start his seeds directly into final pots or does he re pot them into the Moisture control?? I have been questioning as to whether or not to use the Moisture Control..thanks

You say you hate soil indoors...How do you usually grow?? Do you use DWC??

 

[Zendo]

Ok, so here is the deal. I would like to do a water only grow. But the problem is, most soils that have enough nutrients in them are too hot for seedlings.

I would like to use a soil called Plagron Royalty Mix. It says that it last for up to 8 weeks. This is perfect for most auto flowering plants because they usually go from seed to harvest in that amount of time. Which means that I would not have to add any nutrients throughout the entire grow.

This would be perfect but the problem is this...how do I start them straight into their final pot without burning them?

Some growers start them in peat pots or plastic cups but I prefer not to do it this way because I have read that they have a tap root that grows down towards the bottom of the pot first before it sends out any side roots. If this is true, then I wouldn't want to stunt the growth of the tap root and risk stunting the growth of the plant. And they usually only have a 2 or 3 week vegetative period as is and it can't be controlled. So I figure the root needs all the growth that it can possibly get.

In photo period strains it is ok to start them in cups because they can be vegged longer, meaning they can have more time to grow in size. So if the root reaches the bottom of the cup, it will have plenty of time to resume growth after being re potted...

So my question is this, suppose I fill the pot half way with the Royalty Mix (which is fertilized) and the top half of the pot with a Light Mix (lightly fertilized for seedlings)....would this be a good way of doing it? This way I can let the tap root grow free, but still avoid burning the young seedling..

Has anyone ever done it this way?? If so, were the yields higher than first starting them in something small and then transplanting?

or

I was also wondering, that if I add microbes to the royalty mix and let it sit out for two weeks would it cool down enough to be able to plant seedlings in it without burning them...and skip using the light mix altogether??

Thanks for any replies...

Do not order and ship soil from the UK..Keep it simple: also, I wouldn't recommend miracle grow anything..

There are plenty of amazing soils right here in the USA, and won't cost you the money to ship around the world.

Any Sunshine mix from Sun Gro is great. http://www.sungro.com/products_omri.php

Mix #4 or the last one listed 'Sunshine natural and organic' are golden IMHO.

I would recommend heading over to the organic soil threads here on ICMAG. It has more information than you could possibly need to grow great herb organically. The beginners thread will be a great start, as well as the other sticky's and resource library.

Peace.

 

[stlsoldier531]

Do not order and ship soil from the UK..Keep it simple: also, I wouldn't recommend miracle grow anything..

There are plenty of amazing soils right here in the USA, and won't cost you the money to ship around the world.

Any Sunshine mix from Sun Gro is great. http://www.sungro.com/products_omri.php

Mix #4 or the last one listed 'Sunshine natural and organic' are golden IMHO.

I would recommend heading over to the organic soil threads here on ICMAG. It has more information than you could possibly need to grow great herb organically. The beginners thread will be a great start, as well as the other sticky's and resource library.

Peace.

Yeah man I wanted to order it from the UK but damn..it is expensive..lol.. it will be almost 75 dollars for a bag of that soil to get shipped over here..because they charge more for shipping...

I'm not exactly made of money..lol..

Thanks!!! Never heard of the sunshine...but I am going to check it out right now...

 

[stlsoldier531]

But I want an already fertilized soil. If I am going to be mixing nutrients and all that other shit I might as well go Hydro....I am trying to do a water only grow...meaning not have to worry about all the flushing, nutrient mixing and all that other stuff...I just want to put the nutrients into the soil...then water all the way to harvest...

I don't have any idea of how and when to apply nutrients when using soil...lol...I have heard so many debates as to when to flush...when to add nutrients...when to do this...when to do that...I would rather go Hydro If I am going to do that much thinking...to me the whole point of organics is to not have to screw around with measuring nutes...let nature take its course is what I want...

 

[stlsoldier531]

What's the difference between the different numbers because they all have the same ingredients and same description????

 

[GMT]

Best bet is to look up a local garden centre and grab yourself some tomato grow bags. The best soil I have found costs me 99p (uk) for 20 litres.