Organic Fanatic Collective

[minds_I]

Hello all,

Guanoman, you may have an excellent find with that article.

This may be the enthanolic process. I gather it is a extraction of compounds using an alcohol. I would then presume they evaporate the alcohol leaving the extracts behind.

Great find.

minds_I

 

[Guest]

Hey, if anyone didnt mention it - (Suby did)Moonshine Mans mix is pretty good organics also!

"So here is the new mix....

All waterings should be PH between 6.3 and 6.7 for best results....

1 bag of Ocean Forest
1 bag of Planting Mix
1 (1.5 cuft) bag of Black Gold organic soil
1/2 cu/ft of Earth worm castings
2 coco Bricks
8 gallons of Perlite
1 cup Peace of Mind Fruit and flower
1 cup Peace of Mind Starter

The plants need NOTHING in Veg......

in flower I feed the First week of Flowering @ day 5-7 and they are fed again at day 21-30........
Feeding #1 mixed in a 5 gallon bucket
1tsp of Fish Mix (from Bio Bizz)
1Tblspn of Mother Earth Organic Tea grow (advanced Nutrients)
1tblspn of Mother Earth Tea Bloom (Advanced Nutrients)
1tblspn of Dr Hornbys Iguana Juice Bloom (Advanced Nutrients)

this is a very light nute bath for the roots......and really jumpstarts the flowering process without messing up the integrity of the soil.....

the 2nd feeding is done around day 30, the closer to the halfway mark the better.....also mixed in a 5 gal bucket
1 Tblspn of Mother Earth Grow
2Tblspn of Mother Earth Bloom
2 Tblspn of Iguana Juice Bloom

and thats it...2 feedings......and Ive seen increased bud sites and much larger yields without compromising the taste and smell......

I found by substituting the Coco fiber, Black gold and Castings , for the Light warrior loosend the soil substantialy and since this mix is a little looser and not as rich it allows nutes to be absorbed better without locking em out or givin the buds the "guano" flavor....."

I'll be trying it this round - well kinda. I will post results in 8 weeks or so.

 

[guineapig]

Has anyone ever considered the benefits of glacial rock dust?

A Rock Dust Primer

What type of rock is best?

Feeding poor soil with mixed rock dust may be compared to feeding an ill person a varied diet of unrefined, natural food. If no one single food is a panacea, it might follow that no single rock type is "ideal." Indeed, the virtue of glacial gravel is said to lie in its broad spectrum of rock types. The late John Hamaker advocated the use of glacial gravel dust, ideally followed by river and seashore gravels and mixtures of single rock types.


In the book The Survival of Civilization, John Hamaker suggests finely-ground glacial gravel because that is nature's way throughout millennia to create fertile soils. Glacial gravel, which is a natural mixture of rocks, will create a broad spectrum of minerals in the soil in a natural balance.

Much of value can also be gleaned from Europe and the research and experiences there where single rock types and combinations of single rock types such as basalt are used.

Hamaker asserts that "Micro-organisms select what they need to make the compounds of life, and reject to the subsoil what is not needed, [such as] aluminum, silicon, iron, etc., which are generally in excess [in gravel dust]," further pointing to "the Kervran research on biological transmutations", which suggests that biological organisms may play an active role not only in selecting specific elements, but also in modulating their elemental nature to create needed materials where they are in short supply. Hamaker says "As long as the soil is neutral [in pH] or close to it, microorganisms will control what goes into the plant roots. These controls are off when the soil is acid or acidic chemicals are added."


Composting with rock dust

Combining gravel dust with organic materials in compost is a great way to solve application problems and speed up the process. Don't forget a handful of soil to inoculate with organisms. Gravel dust improves aeration and structure and therefore prevents rotting. Gravel dust is assimilated even more quickly in compost than in poor soils.

Compost and gravel dust are a symbiotic combination: the compost provides an excellent medium for the "microorganism population explosion" promoted by the dust, and the gravel dust will not only help create more organic matter, but will also help hold it in place, reduce odors and conserve it.

Add 2-20 lb. of rock dust per cubic yard of compost, if one is doing pile or window composting.

Soil acidity

Soil pH should be measured annually. If the soil is acidic, agricultural limestone may be added together with the rock dust to bring the soil pH to neutral. Gravel dust will also neutralize soils to a great degree, but limestone is a quick remedy for agricultural soils. Limestone is not recommended for forests as it will destroy the humus-building complex in the long term.

Keep insects in natural balance in your garden

For short-term rescue, very fine dust sprayed directly on plants and trees has been shown in research in Germany to deter insect infestations very effectively. Trails of rock dust around the garden help keep slugs out. And healthy remineralized plants will not be plagued by insect infestations in the future as they become healthier and more insect resistant.

How to apply gravel dust

There are many ways to apply dust to the soil; which method you use depends on the scale and your preference. It can be spread by hand out of a wheelbarrow using a shovel, or roto-tilled and disked in. You can use a wet agricultural lime spreader. If equipment is available that contains an agitator (to maintain particles in a suspended state), a wet spray can be used.

Organic farmer John Sundquist in Oregon applies it with a manure spreader, bander or an "E-Z Flow" type fertilizer applicator. He also uses rock dust in a potting soil made of compost, ashes and peat moss.

How much to use

A grower of crops or a gardener needs a good response the first year after a fall application. The response in any one year depends on the amount of minerals available to the microorganisms, soil moisture and the amount of inert organic matter.

If the last two factors are satisfactory, as little as 3 tons of gravel dust per acre worked into the top 4 inches of soil should give good results. However, I prefer about 10 tons per acre worked in about 8 inches, since one application will eliminate the cost of a number of more frequent applications and give high yields.

The Application Conversion Chart will help you to determine how much gravel dust to use: 3 tons/acre is considered the minimum application, 10 tons/acre is Hamaker's preferred long-term application, and 20 tons/acre is given as a major remedial application for especially dry, poor soil. Smaller amounts are recommended if the rock dust is finer than 200 mesh and larger amounts if much less fine than 200 mesh.

(Here's some info about Quartz Dust specifically........)

Firstly, there are mineral applications that you can add to your soil. One of the best is finely powdered Quartz crystal which must be absolutely pulverized until it reaches 2-5 microns per quartz particle. Quartz has piezo-electrical properties which are said to stimulate root growth and greatly enhances the multiplication of beneficial bacteria in the soil ecosystem. An additional benefit is the Silicon which builds up strong plant cell walls and aids in resistance to disease. Other rock-dust products are commercially available and include crushed granite and crushed volcanic basalt which are said to increase soil health via paramagnetic properties. Crushed rocks may sound like a new-age fantasy, but beneficial bacteria and microbes actually feast on rock dust and some ancient species of bacteria still use it as their sole source of nutrition. Millions of years ago, when there was not even a trace of life on any continent, the glaciers began to slowly recede towards the poles. As they did this, they crushed and pulverized tons and tons of rocks. This rock dust lay completely inert until some lucky bacterium adapted to utilize the dust as its primary food source. As years went by, these bacteria lived and died by the trillions and helped transform lifeless rocks into the fertile soil that we see today.

kind regards from the guineapig

 

[Suby]

Guanoman great find, I like who it utlizes a fermenting process in the making of the tea, basically it is damn close to what we use less the fermenting.

Srainwhore ty for posting the Moonshine Mix here, it is still the most read thread in the orgamics forum and would be a sticky if I had my way...

Guinea Pig its an honour to have you among us and many thanks for the great contribution, this thread is really taking off and is already chock full of organics secrets for the newbs and old farts alike, although that smelled like a fresh one to me.

Keep posting peeps, I'm looking into "stinging nettle" and camphrey(sp?) leaves as tea additives, I'm always on the lookout so share and be heard.

Suby

 

[irie-i]

comfrey!!

i have it in my gardens here on the farm, and occasionally i have been know to put it in my tea. thanks for reminding me, because the comfrey is about to die for the season. i think ill put some in my next tea

 

[Suby]

My friends it appears Comfrey leaves are excellent ferts and a great K source in teas and mulches, looks like i'll be growing some next summer.

The Power Plant: Mulch, Compost Activator, Plant Food More Gardens Solutions

Adapted from Organic Gardening, June/July issue, published by Rodale Press.
The fuel for this organic fertilizer factory is Russian comfrey (Symphytum X uplandicum). It has 6-foot-long roots that harvest nutrients from deep in the soil, making comfrey leaves a fantastic natural source of nitrogen, phosphorous, and potassium.

Researchers in British Columbia analyzed the NPK (nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium) ratio of comfrey leaves by air-drying them and analyzing the powdered leaf tissues. They found that the leaves have an impressive proportion of 1,8-0.5-5.3. To compare, kelp meal has an NPK ratio of 1.0-0.5-to 2.5.
How can you harness the power of Russian comfrey?

Mulch.
Freshly cut comfrey leaves make good mulch because they’re high in nitrogen, so they don’t pull nitrogen from the soil while decomposing, as high-carbon mulches like straw and leaves do. And comfrey’s high potassium content makes it especially beneficial for flowers, vegetables (such as tomatoes, peppers, and cucumbers), berries, and fruit trees.

Soil amendment.
Use freshly cut comfrey leaves (but not the flower stems in this case-they can root) as fertilizer in planting holes. The leaves break down rapidly and provide nutrients right at the roots.

Compost activator.
Comfrey is especially useful if you have lots of dry brown material and the pile is slow to heat up. Just layer the fresh comfrey leaves and stems in as you add other material to your pile.

Liquid fertilizer.
One of the best ways to tap your fertilizer factory is to brew comfrey tea. Fill a barrel or trash can about halfway with fresh comfrey, add water, cover it, and let it steep for 3 to 6 weeks. Comfrey tea smells foul, so brew it away from sensitive noses. The tea may be used full strength or diluted to about half strength - to the color of weak tea. Use it whenever you water your plants. It’s great for watering your plants. It’s great for watering stressed plants to help get them back on track.

Pest prevention and control.
Scientists at Moscow State University in Russia observed that powdery mildew spores that landed on wheat seedlings sprayed with comfrey tea did not germinate, and the wheat seedlings sprayed with comfrey tea did not germinate, and the wheat seedlings did not become infected. The researches concluded that the comfrey tea sprays had activated natural defense mechanisms in the wheat seedlings, making them more resistant to disease.

 

[irie-i]

ok, heres the deal comfrey: it can take over your yard in only a few years! a relative got one plant from a friend. somehow it got moved, and the root broke into a few pieces. each of those pieces became a plant. one day he had a machine work in his yard and it broke those few plants' roots into a few more. now most of his property gets covered with comfrey in the summer, then turns into a nast black stinky slippery mess. a piece of root the size of a pea will grow into a plant

 

[Suby]

then I gues you'll just have to contact him and get me some of his
I like my perenial garden the way it is thank you very much.
Maybe I'll plant aome wild in the forest next to my home...
Does this stuff grow wild in colder climates, just from the NPK this could be a good break but the odour issues seems to put a kink in the plan...

 

[vonforne]

For example I flower a 3foot well trained plant in a 5 gallon bucket filled to the brim with ammended soil, going cheap here will cost you in the end.
In organics I recommend 1.5gallons of soil per plant foot as opposed to the 1gal/plant foot every touts as gospel.

Think outdoors people, alot of soil, roots go as deep as the need and big huge buds even in shaded areas...

Also transplanting, you need to use transplanting strategically to get the most out of you soil.

Transplanting at the right ime and the right # of times will lead to a rootmass that fills the container, you don't get that at all by planting say a seedling in 2 gallons of soil.
Roots grow out and down, any of you who have transplanted healthy plants have noticed that the greatest concentration of roots in in the bottom of the pot and around the sides leaving most of the middle empty, nothing you can do about this.
What I do is use a clear beercup to root clones or seedling and when I see a fair amount of roots through the cup I tranplant to a 1 gallon container and I use Mike during transplant.

I give that 2 weeks then pop one to check the rootmass, if i see good rooting in the botton I get them in the 2 gallon containers veg those thoroughly for another 2 weeks them I flower in a 5 gallon container again using Mike at transplant.

Use a well brewed tea with every transplant and make sure to use quick and gentle hands so as not to stress the plants but don't worry about TP shock, that's a totally overstated fact that plants suffer from shock when transplanted.

What multiple transplant leave you with are concentric cylinders of rootmass that grow in width and length so as to fill you final container, i wish I had some of my OG pics for this but you get the idea.

More to come...
S

I think the root mass and tranplanting up is the most important aspect besides the soil we use. In a couple of weeks I have some clones in cups and 1 gallons and will be transplanting. i will take pics and post them for everyone.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

As to the transplant method, I agree with Suby. I in addition, gently break up the root ball so that I can spread it across the top of the new soil and back fill with fresh soil. I do this in an attempt to get the roots growing down rather then out.

As far as to when to transplant- when the plants growth slows but mostly I have a schedule I like to keep (yeah right) so that my perpetual harvest is not disturbed. However, if the plant is not ready, well the schedule gets bumped.

I find it better to veg longer with fewer plants for bigger yields-least thats the way the dice have been rolling lately.

I also just purchased "Down To Earth" endo/ecto mycorrhizea in the granulated form.

I used it the first time last night when I did a transplant.

I am counting on the good things I hear about it.

minds_I

 

[Guest]

hi, here's the wiki article on comfrey http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comfrey

bear in mind, that with most deep rooting 'green manure' crops, the fertiliser value of the leaves will be directly proportional to the depth of the main tap root.
to get them established very quickly, i like to 'drill' 1 meter deep holes with a piece of pvc pipe and fill the holes with good compost, and i plant the root cuttings at the top, 5 cm under the surface. when i feed/water them, i set up a 'leaky bucket' to drip slowly into the center of the plant so that the water/nutes runs down the tap root where it is needed most. when they are well established and hardy, i start harvesting the leaves. another deep-rooter is alfalfa, which i grow too.

 

[irie-i]

comfrey doesnt need compost, doesnt need much water, doesnt need nutes. its a weed.

Maybe I'll plant aome wild in the forest next to my home...
Does this stuff grow wild in colder climates,

it will grow just fine, but i hope it dont take over the forest. alternativley it could be grown in containers to prevent spreading.

 

[Guest]

irie you must be mistaken. 'bocking 14' cultivar of russian comfrey (symphytum x uplandicum) is the one we are interested in. it's nitrogen hungry and drinks lots of water before the root reaches the subsoil. the compost i used was homemade and i just watered the comfrey with the run-off from other container plants, it was no hassle for me because i don't buy bottled nutes like most people.
the better you treat comfrey in the beginning, the sooner it starts pumping potassium. how do you think a plant can be nutrient rich yet "it doesn't need nutrients"? i have to question the usefulness of planting it in a container, considering what i've already mentioned about the roots. you would have to feed it anyway to make it produce, which defeats the purpose of growing it in the first place.
another thing about bocking 14 is that it can't spread by itself. if you buy comfrey from a nursery it will be bocking 14 unless otherwise stated. be careful where you plant it because an established plant is for life.

 

[jolene]

Hello there - I grow comfrey and have it in raised beds so it doens't cut loose and scorched earth policy your garden - plus if you feed it to your worms you get unbelievably good worm castings for flowering (I add rock phosphate, dolomite lime and bone meal to the worm bin to augment the Mg and P) and a more nutritionally rounded liquid runoff to make teas with.

 

[BudZad7]

Granny's Dirt Mix

Granny's Dirt Mix

Hi All !! Here's an Olddddddd mix from Grandma's garden.....

Jamaican bat guano, & Mexican bat also
Blood meal
Bone meal
Fish meal
Kelp meal
Greensand
Soft rock phosphate
Worm castings
Rock dust trace elements
These are the dry ferts to put into soil mix
The water ferts are:
Maxicrop seaweed + Fish emulsion + Meta K
Mex/Jam bat teas + molasses (brewed 24/48hrs with air pump in bucket)

SEE:





4th wk flowering Peace!

 

[jaykush]

just popping my head in real quick, making some nettles tea as we speak, went with it and added what we believe to be the lk mix. (well what i read up further with the beer and all that shit) got lots of sweet pics to post when i get back. i even made a new tea brewing system. rel easy and effective.

 

[irie-i]

irie you must be mistaken. 'bocking 14' cultivar of russian comfrey (symphytum x uplandicum) is the one we are interested in. it's nitrogen hungry and drinks lots of water before the root reaches the subsoil. the compost i used was homemade and i just watered the comfrey with the run-off from other container plants, it was no hassle for me because i don't buy bottled nutes like most people.
the better you treat comfrey in the beginning, the sooner it starts pumping potassium. how do you think a plant can be nutrient rich yet "it doesn't need nutrients"? i have to question the usefulness of planting it in a container, considering what i've already mentioned about the roots. you would have to feed it anyway to make it produce, which defeats the purpose of growing it in the first place.
another thing about bocking 14 is that it can't spread by itself. if you buy comfrey from a nursery it will be bocking 14 unless otherwise stated. be careful where you plant it because an established plant is for life.

i dont know about "bocking 14." i took pieces of root from the comfrey my realtive has. i buried one in the veggie garden. i drilled some pieces in around my fruit trees, and i tossed some on bare ground. the garden comfrey is pretty big. the ones by the fruit tree grew fine, just not as big. and the bare ground stuff also grew, just not as well.

i wonder if bocking 14 cant spread on its own, can it spread by root division.

anyhow, maybe this aint the place to debate comfrey, i just want to warn other gardeners from my experience

 

[jolene]

I agree with jaykush that nettles are just fine for brewing up - though the smell will make you head spin. I think they are stuffed full of sillica and other good voodoo

 

[guanoman]

Hello all,

Guanoman, you may have an excellent find with that article.

This may be the enthanolic process. I gather it is a extraction of compounds using an alcohol. I would then presume they evaporate the alcohol leaving the extracts behind.

Great find.

minds_I

Hey minds_I I missed your response earlier. This is the second recipe in this thread that uses Fermentation to make nutrients. If I remember correctly, yeast cannot survive in more than 20% alcohol. If we add 1 cup of tea that contains 20% alcohol to 1 gallon of watter we end up with approximately 1.25% alcohol. I don't imagine either of the tea recipes that use fermentation, would reach even 10% alcohol. So the amount of alcohol in our final tea's would be so minute it probably wouldn't be a problem.

I like the idea of fermenting before making a tea. It make sense to me that the alcohol plus the bacterial and maybe acidic actions combined would make the most nutrients available.

From all the suggestions here and what is available to me. I'm fermenting up a batch of Stinging nettles, a batch of rotten Mellon's, a batch of freshly cut bud clippings "shake", a batch of amaranth seeds "I have it in my garden, and amaranth seeds are supposed to be high in P!" and I already did one batch of banana's. I just added 1/3 Molasses to the material I wanted to ferment, topped it up with water and let it sit. They all smell sweet!

 

[Guest]

i dont know about "bocking 14." i took pieces of root from the comfrey my realtive has. i buried one in the veggie garden. i drilled some pieces in around my fruit trees, and i tossed some on bare ground. the garden comfrey is pretty big. the ones by the fruit tree grew fine, just not as big. and the bare ground stuff also grew, just not as well.

i wonder if bocking 14 cant spread on its own, can it spread by root division.

anyhow, maybe this aint the place to debate comfrey, i just want to warn other gardeners from my experience

no problem, i just don't want anyone to be misinformed. you should check out the link i posted.

i think the comfrey you have is probably bocking 14. like i said, you need to be careful were you plant it, and be sure not to chop the roots up and spread them around.

here are some other plants and the nutrients they accumulate:

borage: silica, phosphorus.
chamomile: calcium, potassium, phosphorus.
comfrey: silica, nitrogen, magnesium, calcium, potassium, iron.
fennel: sodium, sulphur, potassium.
horsetail: silica, magnesium, calcium, iron, cobolt.
nasturtiums: sodium, flourine, sulphur, magnesium, calcium, potassium, phosphorus, iron.
nettles: sodium, sulphur, nitrogen, calcium, potassium, iron, copper.
primrose: magnesium
spurges: boron
vetches: nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, copper, cobolt.
yarrow: nitrogen, potassium, phosphorus, copper.