Organic coco..... At what point does it become soil?

[120Octane]

How about when you stop falling for the bullshit.....There is only 1 periodic chart for elements....not a "cough fart wheeze organic" and hydroponic....


Omri is a standard. Chemistry is where deffinitions come from not standards. You do realize water is not organic by chemistry deffinitions......You do realize "organic" is the biggist shill next to bottled nutes?


Drop the bullshit and realize that when you stop lieing to yourself the answer is there...

 

[CrushnYuba]

You can't say that.
There is a huge difference. Just from nitrogen sources, there is amonical n, 2 types of nitrate n, urea n, organic n. All of them behave very differently.
Something does not have to be certified omri to be an organic fertalizer. Either i an misunderstanding you, or you misunderstand nutrients.
You can't just get one element of of that periodic table. Unless it's organic it has to be a salt. If you want an inorganic source of k, you have potasium chl, potassium sulfate, potasium nitrate. You can't just get straight potassium.

And there is a huge difference between an amendment that breaks down slow and a salt that it's sucked up instantly by a plant.

 

[h.h.]

Coco will never be soil.
Humus isn't soil.

Sand isn't soil.
Rocks aren't soil.
Soil is the mixture.


The point of organics in my twisted mind is to do no harm.
Mind, body, spirit, and in nature.
The final product placed side by side, grown right, few if any would spot the difference.

 

[Microbeman]

Coco will never be soil.
Humus isn't soil.

Sand isn't soil.
Rocks aren't soil.
Soil is the mixture.


The point of organics in my twisted mind is to do no harm.
Mind, body, spirit, and in nature.
The final product placed side by side, grown right, few if any would spot the difference.

and humus is not compost

 

[Klompen]

How about when you stop falling for the bullshit.....There is only 1 periodic chart for elements....not a "cough fart wheeze organic" and hydroponic....


Omri is a standard. Chemistry is where deffinitions come from not standards. You do realize water is not organic by chemistry deffinitions......You do realize "organic" is the biggist shill next to bottled nutes?


Drop the bullshit and realize that when you stop lieing to yourself the answer is there...

This argument is tiresome. The term "organic" in terms of farming may at times be used in vague and dishonest ways, but it does clearly represent a spectrum of techniques and is a perfectly valid term to use.

I'm talking about growing via biologically-active techniques, which can also be referred to as "living soil". I am not talking about nutrient salts. So that fundamental distinction is pretty clear and there's really no reason to be so hostile about it.

 

[Klompen]

Coco will never be soil.
Humus isn't soil.

Sand isn't soil.
Rocks aren't soil.
Soil is the mixture.

I've already addressed this on page 2. I am referring to a coco-dominant aggregate. Lets not get so hung up on semantics that we can't discuss substance.

 

[xavier7995]

When coco comprises less than 50% of the mix...or i guess it would be more accurate to say when amendments make up more than half. I like the 60/40 (or perhaps its 70/30) coco/perlite mixes but wouldnt consider that perlite an amendment so a bit hard to pin down. If i added say 25% dirt and then some compost and such i would consider it a soil mix.

Maybe it could be based around the need to feed fertilizer. If you can do water only, then its soil. If you need to feed salts, organic teas, etc. every feed then you are over in the coco/hydro realm.

 

[h.h.]

I've already addressed this on page 2. I am referring to a coco-dominant aggregate. Lets not get so hung up on semantics that we can't discuss substance.

You have potting soil then.
Soil comes from the earth.
Do you want to know how long it takes to break down?
Other wise coco is coco and will always be coco.
Soil is a matrix.
Coco can be part of the soil matrix.

 

[Boss Cocky]

Your coco mix will be like soil when it has a high enough cation and anion exchange capacity to function like soil. Of course different soils have different exchange capacities and very light sandy soils can be treated almost like hydro.

Coco has a significant cation exchange capacity (low compared to most soils, though). Perlite has a very low CEC. It is used to increase air filled porosity. You don’t need it (or pumice, etc) if your coco has a high enough AFP (25%+). House & Garden coco meets this criterion.

20-30% compost is an ideal amount for a living soilless mix.

Here is a recipe a well known organic guru in Australia gave me:

70% coco
25% compost
5% volcanic zeolite

A modified version of this that has worked well for me:

70% coco
10% mushroom compost
10% worm castings
10% zeolite

Take care with ph in coco. Unlike peat, it has an ideal ph before you add anything to it. Don’t use aglime and if using dolomite, don’t use much. You should have 5-10 times as much Ca as Mg in the initial mix in order for it to breath well. K should equal Mg. Note that this balance pertains to the initial mix only. Plants use more K than Ca or Mg.

 

[Brother Nature]

If you're looking to keep it simple, why not just use coco by itself?

 

[CrushnYuba]

You were saying You wanted something drown proof. Coco chips and course fibers are great for airation and preventing it from holding to much water. I buy "mega mulch". It's marketed as a mulch but it's mixed course fibers and chips.

Try
45% fine coco ( most common coco
15% course fiber and chip mix
20% perlite
10% pine bark ( to lower ph)
10% fresh compost

Impossible to drown.

 

[Klompen]

If you're looking to keep it simple, why not just use coco by itself?

Metering everything and using bottled fertilizers is expensive and too much work for my liking. No disrespect to coco growers though. People clearly do some amazing work with pure coco.

 

[St. Phatty]

Metering everything and using bottled fertilizers is expensive and too much work for my liking. No disrespect to coco growers though. People clearly do some amazing work with pure coco.

I dump my food compost (coffee grounds, banana peels) on top of each 2018 soil pot.

The bucket for food compost is outside the back door, near the kitchen. Keep it in the kitchen & flies become a problem.

Anyway, every time the compost bucket is 1/2 full, I dump it on another soil pot. There's only 4 of them.

Another part of my house-cleaning is, I put old gym towels as liners in the bird cage. Once the gym towels (which are cotton, organic) are loaded with a disgusting amount of chicken manure, the gym towels go on the plant pots.

When it's warm enough, I collect worms and distribute them among the plant pots.

Anyway, it all occurs in the process of simple house-cleaning. The soil gets thoroughly rejuvenated.