Orca Grow Film

[Beta Test Team]

BetaTestTeam,
Where did you get your info? I'd like to see comparative specs. If I was wrong I would like to know and learn.

Here you go, see below. However, looking over the indoor white latex paint data again I see it's not as bad as I thought I remembered (when accounting for the whole PAR range) - that said - I would still disagree with your statement that there's: "very little difference in reflectivity [between ORCA and white paint]." Because there is in fact a lot of difference between them.

Likewise, I would like to ask you why you made the claim you did, originally? Do you have data to back it up? I'm just wondering if maybe we're talking about different paint types?

[NOTE: I've updated my post to you on the 1st page to correct the figures I cited for white paint (increasing the %) and Panda film (decreasing %).]

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You said that Orca is easy to clean with disinfectants, "no so with paint, mylar, or panda." They'll all clean up fine with disinfectants.

Have you ever tried to clean Mylar (PET film) with a disinfectant like bleach or quandary ammonium? It doesn't end well, only serves to reduce reflectivity and skew angle of reflectance (considering it's specular).

The point I was making about paint and Panda film (black/white poly) is they're not tough like ORCA is tough. For example, a sufficiently strong solution of bleach or QA to disinfectant properly, plus using a sponge, over repeated cleaning (like should happen every 2 to 4 weeks) physically degrades paint and Panda. Over a period of months the reflectivity and diffusion will be affected, not so with ORCA.

I've also read that white paint is an excellent diffuser. Spreads it all over IME. -granger

Can you please cite those data to which you're referring?

 

[Granger2]

BetaTestTeam,
I only tallked about white paint. I don't make any claims about mylar, etc. Your excellent chart shows that white paint reflects between 90 and 94% if I'm reading it right. Even if Orca reflects 99% [doubtful], I'd still say that there is very little difference, especially for the price difference. The 2nd chart shows white paint at 92-93%. Third chart doesn't address white paint.

I was going by admittedly old info. I read a book in the late 70's called "The Facts of Light." It compared white paint to other things that were available at the time. Pre Orca days. I'm assuming white paint hasn't gotten less reflective as other films have come out. The book said that white paint reflects 90-95%. I based my statement on that, and that to me there is little difference between 99% and 95%.

The book also said that white paint diffused light far better than anything available at the time. The light that hits it is diffused and scattered every which way, no hot spots.

At the time, I had part of my screen porch sectioned off to make an indoor winter refuge for my approx. 350 cacti/succullents and other house/patio plants. The SE wall was all windows from half way up the wall to the top. I had plants on the floor up against this wall with a 1 foot shelf above them that danced all winter from reflected light. All surfaces were painted white.

I used scrubable pure white latex with 0% VOC's. To clean it, I spray it with 3% peroxide, then wipe. I don't know how it could get any easier than that. It so far hasn't deteriorated. If it starts to, I can put another coat of paint on it easily, cheaply.

I started my first post saying that Orca is great stuff. I just don't think it's worth the extra cost over white paint. If you think it's worth the difference, that's fine. It's your money. Good luck. -granger

 

[Beta Test Team]

BetaTestTeam,
Your excellent chart shows that white paint reflects between 90 and 94% if I'm reading it right. Even if Orca reflects 99% [doubtful], I'd still say that there is very little difference, especially for the price difference.

You're not reading it right I think, but this is kind of a point of view thing, as I haven't digitized these figures to calculate % values. So I'm using those shown in the figures I uploaded, with rough guesstimate for the following:

For example, if we look at the second figure I posted, for the 'blue' range (400-500 nm) the 400-430 nm range reflectivity is about 72%, averaged. Then about 430 to 500 nm range reflectivity is about 85% to 90%, averaged. And then look at the first figure (brown line) and you can see how the whole PAR range is not equally reflected, where from about 500 to 700 nm the reflectivity ranges from about 92% to 94%.

ORCA is about 93% to 94% reflectivity from 400-700 nm, averaged.

Those data show the white paint is more than nominally less reflective over the whole PAR range than ORCA. Overall I'd guess white paint has PAR reflectivity of around 88% to 90% (better than Panda, Mylar, etc.), while ORCA is about 93% to 94%. That's not an insignificant difference.

I was going by admittedly old info. I read a book in the late 70's called "The Facts of Light." It compared white paint to other things that were available at the time. Pre Orca days. I'm assuming white paint hasn't gotten less reflective as other films have come out. The book said that white paint reflects 90-95%. I based my statement on that, and that to me there is little difference between 99% and 95%.

The book also said that white paint diffused light far better than anything available at the time. The light that hits it is diffused and scattered very well, no hot spots.

Without citations (I guess that book* didn't include them) I think it's worth being a bit skeptical of any data from any book.

While I think white paint is better than Mylar, Panda, Reflectex, etc., it's not better than ORCA in terms of reflectivity or diffusion. And assuming my figures are more correct, a 5% difference can be a big deal (especially over large areas with many luminaires).

But that's only looking at reflectivity, the other benefits to ORCA make it even a better choice than anything else I'm aware of; so I think ORCA as first choice and flat white latex paint as second choice (multiple coats, not just one).

Happy holidays Granger2!

* http://www.amazon.com/Facts-Light-About-Indoor-Gardening/dp/B0012N1WXI

 

[Beta Test Team]

Just as a point of interest for the thread: The greatest reflectivity with at least 99% diffusion we have found is 98% (over PAR range) from WhiteOptics. But it's very expensive. So ORCA is the second best choice.

 

[Granger2]

BetaTestTeam,
We wouldn't have been able to buy Christmas gifts for our kids this year if it hadn't been for the ton of money I saved by using white paint instead of Orca. Just kidding! lol. Merry Christmas to you. -granger

 

[Beta Test Team]

Haha, thanks buddy, and merry X-mass (or other holiday you may celebrate this time of year) to you, as well.

 

[dank_stuff]

Thank you Beat Test Team for the great info
Happy holidays to your and everyone else
also check out the gifts from the wife

 

[fishwhistle]

I used white paint for years,Orca is better BUT i do agree with granger that its not a huge difference.I also agree with beta that all those little percentages that we write off can add up to a big difference,a few percent from not running glass in your hoods+a few percent for your reflective material+etc etc can easily add up to 10-15%.Not gonna make you or break you but i prefer to squeeze out every advantage i can if possible.

 

[Beta Test Team]

Thank you Beat Test Team for the great info
Happy holidays to your and everyone else
also check out the gifts from the wife

You're welcome, glad it was helpful (the white point data are from Dr. Bugbee, if I recall correctly). Happy holidays to you and your family, as well.

By the way, tell your wife she's pretty darn cool!