ongoing droop

[DU420]

This seems to happen when ever I close or cover the door to my cabinet they'll look fine like in the first pic and by next morning their all droopy like in the second pic. I don't think its any kind of overwatering as I wait till the pots are lighter and the top two inches of soil is dry. Could this be a heat issue or from lack of fresh air? The cab doesn't get over 25 degrees celsius but I thought maybe the large cfl might have been too close. Or maybe their thirsty.

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[Mr.Bill]

When they droop like that they are out of water and are dying, you are too worried about over-watering and are under-watering them instead. You want to have the pots lightening up, not bone dry, so you want like the first 1/2 inch to be dryish, two inches bone dry is too much yo. The heat in the room can definitely contribute to water consumption in the soil. Also you need to feed them a bit of nitrogen otherwise the yellowing on the yellow leaves will continue to progress.

I sure would like to see further pictures of the plants to make sure that it's only nitrogen that's needed on the plants, but a general nutrient solution will surely help, such as foxfarms growbig or whatever you prefer, something with micro and macro nutrients.

Here's a 30 min series of pics from way back of a thirsty plant, you might see some similarities, you would just want to play it back words as they can droop as fast as they perk back up.

 

[DU420]

Hey bill I was thinking they might be thirsty but they get water every three days and if I leave it any longer their noticeable thirsty but I was concerned about overwatering. They've been getting nutes for the past two weeks and the yellowing is from before that time and they've grown significantly since. I was just concerned that they might not be getting enough fresh air when the doors closed.

 

[Mr.Bill]

with really small enclosed spaces that are airtight, the oxygen levels in there may very well be getting to high for them to breath, and honestly I'm not very knowledgeable on the effects on plants that don't have enough sufficient co2 to continue photosynthesis, but I imagine it would rather devastating and quick. But using up all the co2 as quickly as your describing I just don't know, if the temps are high they would surely be using the available co2 much more rapidly as they are in effect breathing harder but using all available co2, eh plausable. So best I could say to do, is increase the fresh airflow to the space to both reduce the temps and ensure sufficient co2 to the plants so that the photosynthesis continues to function properly. Because once it comes to flowering these plants, keeping the door open is going to lead to other obvious problems with the plants, for the time being maybe just put up some black plastic not sealed tight so that a degree of fresh air can reach the space while not completely spewing light all over the place until you can determine if it is in fact lack of co2 for the plants to use or not. If that is in fact the issue it's up to you how to best solve the problem, there are many ways to go about it, and many threads addressing both ways to do it and different degrees of stealth for you to come up with what will work best for your situation. Best of luck

 

[DU420]

with really small enclosed spaces that are airtight, the oxygen levels in there may very well be getting to high for them to breath, and honestly I'm not very knowledgeable on the effects on plants that don't have enough sufficient co2 to continue photosynthesis, but I imagine it would rather devastating and quick. But using up all the co2 as quickly as your describing I just don't know, if the temps are high they would surely be using the available co2 much more rapidly as they are in effect breathing harder but using all available co2, eh plausable. So best I could say to do, is increase the fresh airflow to the space to both reduce the temps and ensure sufficient co2 to the plants so that the photosynthesis continues to function properly. Because once it comes to flowering these plants, keeping the door open is going to lead to other obvious problems with the plants, for the time being maybe just put up some black plastic not sealed tight so that a degree of fresh air can reach the space while not completely spewing light all over the place until you can determine if it is in fact lack of co2 for the plants to use or not. If that is in fact the issue it's up to you how to best solve the problem, there are many ways to go about it, and many threads addressing both ways to do it and different degrees of stealth for you to come up with what will work best for your situation. Best of luck

Thanks mate that helps, I've noticed it gets worse when I close the door to the room the cabinets in so that might be the problem. I might have to start up some homebrew next to the cabinet and see if that helps. I think I might add a stronger fan to draw more air into the cab aswell. Cheers

 

[Mr.Bill]

After thinking more on this you might want to try a cheap co2 generator.
I'll give you a simple recipe for a 2 liter bottle but you can scale it down if need be. You'll need.
1. 2 liter bottle
2. 1 tablespoon bread yeast
3. 2 cups sugar
4. Water
5. (optional) rubber tubing
6. (optional) glass of water

(I'll put the optional steps at the end)
1. First you need to put a hole in the cap to the bottle, either by drill or by heating something the size you'll want and burning the hole in the top, be careful using the heat method especially as you don't want to burn yourself or whatever you're doing it on.
2. Then you add warm water, yeast and sugar to the bottle(might want a funnel of some type to help reduce spilling)
3. Shake the mixture up thoroughly. After a couple hours the mixture will begin producing co2 and will produce co2 for up to two weeks, as the mix begins to die you might want to shake the mix up again.
4. Now the optional stuff. Take a glass of water(doesn't have to be a large glass) and put it in the center of your grow between your plants.(remember co2 rises and it would be most efficient rising through the plants themselves.)
5. Take the rubber tubing attach it to the lid and run it to the glass of water(this is to make sure the co2 is still being generated more than anything else.)

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

I highly doubt plants that small are using up all the available CO2. What are your temps?? Looks like that CFL is really close to the plants and of the 125w variety. In a well mixed soil plants that small should not need any food at all, and it looks as though the pots are of adequate size.

3 things it could be: underwatering, overwatering, heat

my guess is heat

 

[pacoveli]

Move them lower they might
be to close to the light.

 

[DU420]

I highly doubt plants that small are using up all the available CO2. What are your temps?? Looks like that CFL is really close to the plants and of the 125w variety. In a well mixed soil plants that small should not need any food at all, and it looks as though the pots are of adequate size.

3 things it could be: underwatering, overwatering, heat

my guess is heat

Yep that's what I'm thinking mate, since it only happens when I close the door to the room that the cab is in. My temp of a night time(actual night time not lights out) can be 22-23oC at the base of the pot(but sometimes as low as 20oC and 25-26oC at the canopy. I've raised the light about an inch and a half and the plants have still grown about an inch over the past two days but they still droop when i close the main door to the room.

Just as a side question are larger cfls supposed to be kept further away than regular cfls?

 

[Adze]

DU420,

You might try lightly watering just one of them before you close the cab at night, keep everything else the same. In the morning you'll know if it's water or something else that's the problem.

 

[rckymtnthuglife]

Not sure about Celsius man. You need to raise that CFL for sure. What are you growing in? soil,additives organic?? etc. After, a closer look you have other issues than just heat. Plants that small, in a properly mixed soil should be all green, without any need for food.

 

[DU420]

Not sure about Celsius man. You need to raise that CFL for sure. What are you growing in? soil,additives organic?? etc. After, a closer look you have other issues than just heat. Plants that small, in a properly mixed soil should be all green, without any need for food.

Hey mate soil mix is scotts osmocote plus organics with 20% perlite. Plants are about 7 inches tall, and have been topped using uncle bens method. Their about 2 months old but the first month they didn't grow much due to overwatering which has been rectified. So they'be been growing for about a month and have chewed through all the nutes in the soil, that's why there's discoloured leaves at the base. As soon as I gave them food they started growing and changed from lime green to a healthier green.

 

[Guest 263194]

over-watering + over-fart related to how little light your using now, esp with cfl. Ph is off too.

lower your pots, its too close to cfl now. measure your watering time, wait for longer till you water next time.
lower your nutes amounts too. use 100 Percent RO water this time. need more N.

 

[DU420]

over-watering + over-fart related to how little light your using now, esp with cfl. Ph is off too.

lower your pots, its too close to cfl now. measure your watering time, wait for longer till you water next time.
lower your nutes amounts too. use 100 Percent RO water this time. need more N.

Ph goes in at 6.5 and run off is 6.6, I use filtered water, I water when pots are light and top 2 inches are dry. Lights have been raised but it still happens when the doors closed. Their getting plenty of N now those lower leaves are from before they were first feed and they only get 1/2 strength nutes.

 

[John.Hammond]

what kind of ventelation are you running. I agree that those small plants aren't using up all the CO2 etc, but still stagnant hot air is no good. do u have any air flow at all when u shut the door to your cab, or are you hot boxing them? If you have them in a completely enclosed area refer to the ventelation 101 thread in growroom construction. It will break down all your circulation needs. The plants look hot and dry in the pics..

 

[DU420]

what kind of ventelation are you running. I agree that those small plants aren't using up all the CO2 etc, but still stagnant hot air is no good. do u have any air flow at all when u shut the door to your cab, or are you hot boxing them? If you have them in a completely enclosed area refer to the ventelation 101 thread in growroom construction. It will break down all your circulation needs. The plants look hot and dry in the pics..

Hey john, I've got a 120mm stealth pc fan in the top corner with a passive intake at the base of the cab door that's twice the size of the fan. The cab is
8 cu ft and the fan runs 63 cu ft per minute. But the top of cab above the reflector gets warm so I might add a 4" inline fan aswell. The door to the cab is never closed when lights are on just ajar which is fine until I close the bedroom door aswell then they get sad.

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

over-watering + over-fart related to how little light your using now, esp with cfl. Ph is off too.

lower your pots, its too close to cfl now. measure your watering time, wait for longer till you water next time.
lower your nutes amounts too. use 100 Percent RO water this time. need more N.

How can you over-FART hehe... and need more N doesn't make sense.

Yo dude...is it possible for you to start over? Two months worth of stressed out plants isn't really gonna be worth it. Fresh cuts that are properly cared for will outgrow your current plants. Your soil mix sounds a bit suspicious as well. Are you killing off the chlorine or chloramines in your water? Are your temps between 55-85F. A bit of lime added to your soil goes a long way. A six inch oscillating fan will help keep a breeze on your plants.

 

[DU420]

How can you over-FART hehe... and need more N doesn't make sense.

Yo dude...is it possible for you to start over? Two months worth of stressed out plants isn't really gonna be worth it. Fresh cuts that are properly cared for will outgrow your current plants. Your soil mix sounds a bit suspicious as well. Are you killing off the chlorine or chloramines in your water? Are your temps between 55-85F. A bit of lime added to your soil goes a long way. A six inch oscillating fan will help keep a breeze on your plants.

No mate I can't really afford to start over and add an extra month or two till I get medicine, they actually look quite healthy when the doors open and I've added a fan outside the cab to blow are in which has helped. There's also a 6 inch fan in the cab. I use filtered water and let it sit for a few hours just to make sure. And there's dolomite lime in the soil mix it ph'd at 7.

 

[RanchoDeluxe]

Not a big fan of pHing. If there is dolomite lime and compost in your soil there should be no worries. If there is just chlorine in your water let it sit for 24hrs. If there is chloramine you need to throw a handful of compost in it to kill off the chloramine. Are you trying to do this organically??? Would be a lot cooler if you did. Post some more pics up. and maybe check out the organic soil forum....lots of good people there.

 

[DU420]

Here they are with the door open, got switched 12/12 a few days ago and dont seem to droop as much now. I'm gonna hit them with some trace elements tonight as they still have a few yellowing leaves with brown spots so hopefully that will help.

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