ongoing biweekly cloning attempts and failures

[Bobby Boucher]

Bro, buy some oasis cubes. Your clones will root. If ya bought em months ago when they were first suggested you coulda saved yourself a bit of work and a bunch of time, maybe pulled a harvest or two.

100% idiot proof stuff. Add water. Insert clone. Cover. Wait.

They come ph correct and pre-charged, and don't hold nearly as much water as rockwool. 'Member?

 

[PaulieWaulie]

What are you feeding your moms? Can we get a peek at those too?

When it comes to rockwool, I think you could speed things up by adding a little nutrition and cloning gel. When you spin dry the cubes and shake them of excess water, you're not squeezing them too hard or anything, right?

Soil or plugs- these have some minimum of nutrition. The rockwool is just a blank slate (for the most part). I think you could get roots out of that if you waited long enough but I've never attempted just rockwool and water.

What works for me in any medium is 110 micro moles, 70% humidity, a little dip of gel, and watering only when necessary. Optional (soil, coco, or plugs)- 200ppm of some seedling or quarter strength nute mix. I also only take the best tops, no hollow stems, from fully fed mothers. 8" lengths, snipped leaf tips or not (I find it doesn't matter), 2-3 nodes.

You'll get it, just hang in there.

Yes I will take pictures of the moms, that's the thing, Ive got up to 8 different strains so wide variety. if it was just one or two strains not rooting, I would know something might be up with the mom.

Feeding REMO GROW/MICRO, tap is 200ppm, VEG mix is 600ppm.

Thanks for mentioning the 110 micromoles! I think that's around 5K LUX. (only have a lux meter, no par)


I used to do a low 300ppm nutrient clone solution, and I was told to stop by lots of people. So now just trying to keep things simple. Again not trying to speed up results to get super quick roots, just want roots eventually, no problem waiting 2 weeks. I have been, but just to find no roots and in these last few runs stem rot only, which seems to be the issue.

When I spin the cubes, I dot it in salad spinner. No squeezing at all. All are 100% intact. Full wet weight with cut is 60G, bone dry and on verge of wilting is 10g, I have been salad spinning to 30-40G, and resoaking/spinnning when they are at 15-20. So really I cant perfect this moisture level anymore, and it requires daily attention. And still stem rot at day 7, so clearly this is not the way either.

cheers, welcome to suicide watch

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Bro, buy some oasis cubes. Your clones will root. If ya bought em months ago when they were first suggested you coulda saved yourself a bit of work and a bunch of time, maybe pulled a harvest or two.

100% idiot proof stuff. Add water. Insert clone. Cover. Wait.

They come ph correct and pre-charged, and don't hold nearly as much water as rockwool. 'Member?

Yes will look into other mediums ;(. Going to try rapid rooters as I can get a bag of 50 for $18 CAD at hydro shop.


Tried jiffy cubes in the past but worse results than rockwool. They sit too loose.

 

[Maple_Flail]

Yes will look into other mediums ;(. Going to try rapid rooters as I can get a bag of 50 for $18 CAD at hydro shop.


Tried jiffy cubes in the past but worse results than rockwool. They sit too loose.

can vouch on rapid rooters. would just suggest using them upside down for balance if you don't get a flat. they are wider at top then at bottom

without a taller tray they can be a little wobbly. still my prefered rooting medium.

 

[noknees]

I think that's around 5K LUX. (only have a lux meter, no par)

rest easy Paulie, bsgospel nailed it. 5k lux. you're way over, and more isn't more.

What works for me in any medium is 110 micro moles, 70% humidity, a little dip of gel, and watering only when necessary.

this. right here.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

can vouch on rapid rooters. would just suggest using them upside down for balance if you don't get a flat. they are wider at top then at bottom

without a taller tray they can be a little wobbly. still my prefered rooting medium.

I have a Grodan Smart Tray I think its called. Will just plop some rapids in there side by side with the rockwools. If they are loose I will wedge in something until they are firm.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

rest easy Paulie, bsgospel nailed it. 5k lux. you're way over, and more isn't more.





this. right here.

Ok so that's what I have been getting with this current Run #3, from my single 4FT LED TUBE @ 17W (4000 Kelvin), 10" from clones. I will not change this aspect on future runs then, since it sounds like it is dialed in as can be, (other than if I had a 6500K spectrum) - but I think improvements of that would be marginal.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

For reference, this is one of the best-written cloning guides I have come across.

https://medteknutrients.com.au/hydroponic-cloning-guide/

 

[Im'One]

Theres not much i can add, i was a frustrated cloner until i spent some bucks, got a cloning tray, the clonex jel and rapid rooters. I started by re vegging a very hardy mother plant, Bubba Hash from ACE. I trained her to a cross then let the small shoots get to about three internodes under a close cfl. The internodes were about an inch apart. I fed her big bloom and kept her hydrated with my high ppm well water. Ocassionaly i gave her cal mag, about once a month. I gave her nothing but big bloom for the last feeding. My lights were 6500k cfls and were in 20_4
The day of the citting i had my rapid rooters sitting in warm well water for a few hours to get saturated. I used a meat thermometer to punch holes in them. I sat the tray and plant on a table,cut the shoots below the third internode and stuck them in water, one at a time. I opened my clonex and poured it into a shot glass. I then took the clone out of water cut at a fortyfive and scrapped the bottom internode off and some of the cambrium. I stuck it in clonex then the rapid rooter. I got a new single edge razor blade and did the second one and the third the same way. In all i cut twelve clones. I trimmed the fans with clean scissors. I had two internodes sticking out of the rapid rooters and one in the rapid rooter. I failed to get one bottom leaf completely off and the clone died.

I put the tray of clones in my room with the mother and set them about tow foot away and put boards under the tray and put my heat pad between the 1x4 boards so it was not touching the tray. I cranked the heat pad to half strentght. Then i stuck the meat thermometer on the tray and put the cover on with the wvents open. I put about half of inch of water in the tray. The next morning th water was down and the temperature was 85. I turned the heat down to low.
I kept a small amount of water in the bottom of the tray for three or four days. I was told any clone still standing after 48 hours will make it.
Mine dries out a little but not completely? Then i watered and that seemed to pull the roots out. After seven or eight days i began to see litttle white roots stixking out of the rapid rooters. A few days later, maybe a week, i transferred to small pots. I selected the nine that had rooted. After another week, they were almost root bound so i selected my final five, and put in one liter pots. These look like twins.

 

[Maple_Flail]

For reference, this is one of the best-written cloning guides I have come across.

https://medteknutrients.com.au/hydroponic-cloning-guide/

Yup,pretty good guide, some of the wordage could use simplifiying for some folk.
for example, the Auxin bits, when you start to see internode tightning in veg on top growths is when you've got a good amount of these hormones present, these are primo cuttings.

Didn't see anything about tempering clones to strenghten them, didn't see anything about Foliar feeding or In-depth mother care. (clones feed off leaves to make roots, both foliarly and cannibalistically)

not an end all be all but has the majority of knowledge bombs present that are needed for success.

as for the light thing, not sure what that micro mole measures out too, but i've always had good success with T5ho cfl 12"-14" spread over two trays. thats about 1600 lumens per tray(unmeasured just going by spec)? have a feeling an LED at 10" is a bit excessive might be worth pulling it back a couple inches

 

[wvkindbud38]

Great thread I'm a longtime grower normally from seeds, fwd 20 yrs now I'm learning to clone. I'm trying to get my success numbers up. I'm starting to think the dome is getting mine to much humidity. I been using riot and rapid rooters. Also got a couple Hortipots cloners a 35 and 45 site. It's really humidity in WV anyway. The last few times with the dome hasn't went well. And the temps seen to also get cold when I get a batch to clone. I've got heat meats ink bird thermostats. I've just been using a mild veg solution, a friend recommended a product he's uses, I'm having trouble remembering the name. And after I clean my machines I need to let that plain water run longer so the bleach is 100% gone, my buddy said let it run 2-3 hrs with plain water to make sure the bleach is gone. I only use a capful though, but I'm still gonna let some more plain water run through the machines. The rooters I'm not sure if it's the dome of what, I think the next a try I'm leave that dome off. Great thread guys

 

[Loc Dog]

I forget who's tek I use, and everything packed away to move. It uses cloning solution then into 1.5" square grodan cube soaked, and brought down to 62 grams with cutting. Into humidity dome. After a day open vents. Next day give five minutes air. By third day should be down to 50 grams. Every day, add solution to bring back to 48 - 52 grams. I get like 23 out of 25, every time. Uses very weak PH'd solution. About 11 days till roots coming out. Kept at 76 to 80 degrees. The dome should not be used past 3 or 4 days, unless very dry environment. It should lose about 10 grams a day, once dome removed, and then add that back.

 

[Im'One]

Yup,pretty good guide, some of the wordage could use simplifiying for some folk.
for example, the Auxin bits, when you start to see internode tightning in veg on top growths is when you've got a good amount of these hormones present, these are primo cuttings.

Didn't see anything about tempering clones to strenghten them, didn't see anything about Foliar feeding or In-depth mother care. (clones feed off leaves to make roots, both foliarly and cannibalistically)

not an end all be all but has the majority of knowledge bombs present that are needed for success.

as for the light thing, not sure what that micro mole measures out too, but i've always had good success with T5ho cfl 12"-14" spread over two trays. thats about 1600 lumens per tray(unmeasured just going by spec)? have a feeling an LED at 10" is a bit excessive might be worth pulling it back a couple inches

Definitely. I dont use my LEDs until the clones are rooted and put in one liter pots, then set them about two foot away. Thats when i start 12|12 anyway. I dont use the led unril they are plants ready to flower.

 

[PaulieWaulie]

Definitely. I dont use my LEDs until the clones are rooted and put in one liter pots, then set them about two foot away. Thats when i start 12|12 anyway. I dont use the led unril they are plants ready to flower.

The LED that I am using is just a replacement tube for a T8 4Ft fixture. I am using just one LED Tube, it is 17W, and rated 2200 Lumens. So when you divide that by 2 trays that's 8W/1100 Lummens per tray. DEF on the low end. Last time I had rockwool root for me a few months back with T5 HO tubes I was measuring 8,000 LUX. That light has been sold so cant replicate that environment now.

 

[Gry]

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[Cadfael]

well water?

 

[growingcrazy]

I see you have a cutting board listed in your other thread. How long are clones open to oxygen when you are doing this?


Clean the cut up on the plant, take the cut with a sterile blade. If its going into an aero cloner, place it in right away. If your putting the cut into rapid rooters or grodan's then try putting the cuts directly into a cup of water for a day or 2 after cutting them, then into the rooters/grodan.


Put them into their spot and don't touch them except for watering them. Don't touch any leaves or stems until you know you have roots. Every touch is contamination.


One hiccup along the way shuts the entire process down. The hard part is finding it!

 

[Bud Green]

Way too much light intensity...

you're trying to grow roots, not veg it out...

..

 

[superpedro]

Way too much light...

you're trying to grow roots, not veg it out...

..

I'm with BG on this.
Since I replaced my T8's with T5, I'm using white or matte plastic as cover. Less is more.

And try one time with way less of a canopy on them clones. Just to make it easy for you.
If there is less leaf surface, the plant will be less starved for water. It means it can transpire and regulate its own temperature a bit. It breathes some CO2 unlike a plant that goes into survival mode to preserve water.
Growth won't start until root mass fits the leaf surface area above ground anyway..

 

[Loc Dog]

I forget who's tek I use, and everything packed away to move. It uses cloning solution then into 1.5" square grodan cube soaked, and brought down to 62 grams with cutting. Into humidity dome. After a day open vents. Next day give five minutes air. By third day should be down to 50 grams. Every day, add solution to bring back to 48 - 52 grams. I get like 23 out of 25, every time. Uses very weak PH'd solution. About 11 days till roots coming out. Kept at 76 to 80 degrees. The dome should not be used past 3 or 4 days, unless very dry environment. It should lose about 10 grams a day, once dome removed, and then add that back.

This the Tek I was talking about. My above note are how I tweeked it for myself. I always had horrible results with aeroponics. Water being too hot from pump is a common problem, plus bacteria.

Snype's Guide To Cloning In Rockwool Or Aeroponics With 100% Success Rates!

This guide is to help out fellow growers who don't have perfect success in Rockwool or Aeroponics. Because of the data that I keep, I know how to have 100% success rates with my cuttings. I haven't lost 1 cutting for at least the last 10 years because of what I have learned.

It is extremely important to first talk about Sterile Conditions and Tools before cloning. Every surface must be cleaned with some sort of Bleach or Physan 20 and every tool that you use must be also cleaned with Isopropyl Alcohol or something of the like. Sanitary Conditions are very important to have 100% Success Rates.

It is also very important to take your cuttings from perfect healthy MOMS. Perfect healthy rooted cuttings come from perfect healthy MOMS. If you MOMS are unhealthy, it would be best to bring them back to full health before taking your precious cuttings.

Lets start out talking about cloning in Rockwool because I believe that more people use this method. When I clone in Rockwool, I use Grodan 1.5" Mini-Blocks. My first step is to label each Mini-Block with the corresponding cutting that is going to be put into the Mini-Block.

First I start with a clear light cover from a 60 watt CFL from home depot and wash it off with a bleach and water solution and put it aside. After that, I take a sterile container and I soak the 1.5 inch Grodan Mini-Blocks for 1 hour in a solution of:

4 mL General Hydroponics Flora Series Micro
6 mL General Hydroponics Flora Series Bloom
10 mL Technaflora Thrive Alive B-1 (RED)
ALL THESE RATES ARE PER GALLON OF WATER AND THE SOLUTION IS PH'D TO 5.8

After the Mini-Blocks soak in the solution, I slightly drain just a little bit of the solution by very slightly squeezing the Mini-Block which drains 5% of solution.


Lets take this time to talk about how I come up with exact percentages of solution drained. The average of my completely soaked Mini-Block weighs 67.3 grams. When I slightly drain the cube, it weighs 64.3 grams. Using a scale to fine tune your technique, adds consistency to taking your cuttings throughout your life. When you get used to using a scale for a while, you may start to become more familiar with how weights feel and then you won't need to use a scale anymore. An accurate calibrated scale will never lie to you.

After 5% of solution is drained from the Mini-Block, I take my cuttings from a Perfectly Heathy MOM and cut off the lower leaves while keeping the top leaves in tact. Then I take a 45 degree cut about 1/4 to 1/2 inch below the point where I cut off a leaf. This is what it looks like when I've made my cuts. Notice the 2 points on the stem from where I cut off the 2 leaves. These 2 point will be placed in the cube and that will be 2 more points where solution can have contact with the inside of the stem as well as the main diagonal cut that I made on the stem.


If the cutting has any big leaves on it, I trim the leaves so the plants can worry more about growing roots instead of saving big leaves.

Please note, I need to get some new pictures to replace these ones that came from flowering plants.

Now I just slide it down into the cube and go pretty close to the bottom of the cube without being able to see it touch the bottom though. I make sure that the points where I cut off the leaves completely make there way into the cube.

I take the rest of my cuttings and put them onto my light cover and make sure that all the cubes are touching. I can fit up to 18 cuttings on this clear light cover.
Insert Picture

Finally, I place the clear tray into a Propagation Tray & Dome that contains holes on the dome that can be open or closed. I make sure that I close the vents for the first 24-36 hours. I don't always let the cubes touch their neighbors. If I do space the cubes more apart, some of them tend to dry out faster than others so I have to keep a closer eye on each cube.

After 24-36 hours, I lift up the entire dome for 3-5 minutes and wipe off any condensation that collected on the Propagation Dome and let the cuttings get some fresh air. When I put the Dome back on, I keep all the vents open from this point on.

Every 24 hours, I lift up the entire dome for 3-5 minutes and wipe off any condensation that collected on the Propagation Dome and let the cuttings get some fresh air.

After about 5 days, I check the cubes to make sure there's enough solution in the cubes and also check to make sure they are not too heavy. On day 7-9, I am looking for the Mini-Block to weigh close to 48 grams. If your Mini-Block stays too wet, it takes much longer for your cuttings to root. If the cubes start to dry out, I add a little bit more solution but I squeeze out the excess very gently so they are not water logged. The sweet spot to getting fast roots is for the Mini Blocks to get to around 48 grams by day 7-9. I can usually get roots in 7-10 days and after about 7 or 9 days, if your Mini Blocks weigh over 55 grams and don't have a root that you can see from looking at the bottom of your clear tray, you need to keep the Dome off for longer periods of time. I don't like to keep the Dome off for more than 1 hour at a time so if you need more than an hour, do that every 6 hours or so. That's the beauty of these clear trays, you don't need to disturb the roots to see if you have roots, you just look underneath. Try these cloning techniques and watch your success rate go to 100%! Enjoy!



More pictures will be edited into this post.