Oldtimer's Haze

[dubi]

Welcome l33t friend :smile:

I was thinking yesterday about you, i hope you are doing fine there, here spring has come very rainy, probably the most rainy spring we have had in 2 decades. Outdoor season start has been delayed a little bit, waiting for the summer sun! :smile:

Thanks a lot for the tip, i think shanti and neville did a similar thing to breed neville haze, crossing haze father A to NL, creating NL haze A F1 hybrid and then backcross F1 hybrid to another father haze C (male haze A and C are brothers or from the same haze family).

This is a backcross to one of the parental lines but not a backcross to the same plant, doing this you can fix traits from the backcrossed parental line but as you said you get a decent amount of vigour and genetic diversity in the backcrossed seedline, more vigour and genetic diversity than backcrossing always to the same plant or clone, and not to a sister plant.

Summing up:

If you are working with A family, cross A1 plant to B1 plant from B family to add new traits. Then backcross hybrid line to A family to fix A family traits but not to the same A1 parental plant: F1 hybrid is backcrossed to A2 parental plant from A family.

Some of our strains have been bred in that way, for example nepalese jam (nepalese x jamaican x nepalese) and a new china haze hybrid x china im working with.

I think neville haze aroma and potency is real good not only because its haze fathers are excellent, i think joinning both different males in the same seedline produces a more complex aroma and effect than doing a simple backcross to only one male (or female).

 

[dubi]

About haze hybrids, we are still working at F1 haze phase:

Nepalese highland x oldtimer's haze
Panama x oldtimer's haze
Oldtimer's haze x Panama
Oldtimer's Haze x Nepal Mist
Thai Koh Chang x oldtimer's haze
Green Nam x oldtimer's haze
etc ...

We still must test them correctly and produce other F1 sativa haze hybrids like malawi haze, zamal haze, angola haze etc .... then we will decided the haze hybrid route to take.

Personaly, i believe it'd be easier to work with very selected haze mothers than haze fathers. Our haze mothers have been grown and tested several times, we know the positive traits we like from each mother. But to select a good haze male that produces offspring with desired traits you are looking for (for example, strong incensey aroma and psychedelic high) could take years of testing, it's a very difficult task unless you can grow and test LOT of plants ( or unless you are very lucky).

For example If i want to create a dominant incensey haze hybrid or haze line, i'd cross a incensey haze female to other plant (haze male or male from different strain) then backcross to haze family side but to different incensey haze female.

I like the next idea: Green incensey haze female x (haze male or different strain) and then crossing result to Purple incensey haze female.

Or vice versa:
purple incensey haze female crossed to a haze male (or a different strain) and the crossing result to a green haze incensey female.

This should prouce a haze seedline with a good amount of haze incensey plants where you still can find both color phenotypes.

Many people commented that you must use haze plant as a father to create best haze lines or hybrids but this statement has no logic for me, there are no special haze traits linked to one or other sex, it's plant selection and not sex selection.

 

[Ras Pablo]

About haze hybrids, we are still working at F1 haze phase:

Nepalese highland x oldtimer's haze
Panama x oldtimer's haze
Oldtimer's haze x Panama
Oldtimer's Haze x Nepal Mist
Thai Koh Chang x oldtimer's haze
Green Nam x oldtimer's haze
etc ...

We still must test them correctly and produce other F1 sativa haze hybrids like malawi haze, zamal haze, angola haze etc .... then we will decided the haze hybrid route to take.

Personaly, i believe it'd be easier to work with very selected haze mothers than haze fathers. Our haze mothers have been grown and tested several times, we know the positive traits we like from each mother. But to select a good haze male that produces offspring with desired traits you are looking for (for example, strong incensey aroma and psychedelic high) could take years of testing, it's a very difficult task unless you can grow and test LOT of plants ( or unless you are very lucky).

For example If i want to create a dominant incensey haze hybrid or haze line, i'd cross a incensey haze female to other plant (haze male or male from different strain) then backcross to haze family side but to different incensey haze female.

I like the next idea: Green incensey haze female x (haze male or different strain) and then crossing result to Purple incensey haze female.

Or vice versa:
purple incensey haze female crossed to a haze male (or a different strain) and the crossing result to a green haze incensey female.

This should prouce a haze seedline with a good amount of haze incensey plants where you still can find both color phenotypes.

Many people commented that you must use haze plant as a father to create best haze lines or hybrids but this statement has no logic for me, there are no special haze traits linked to one or other sex, it's plant selection and not sex selection.

Very interesting F1 Sativa croses Dubi...what a BIG job of testing and smoking .

Do you plan make, F1 Indica/Sativa or Sativa/Indica?? For example purple haze x purple paki will be an increible purple cross...

"Many people commented that you must use haze plant as a father to create best haze lines or hybrids but this statement has no logic for me, there are no special haze traits linked to one or other sex, it's plant selection and not sex selection."

Amen!

Que bonito es soñar eH! Un abrazo men!

 

[l33t]

yes dubi I was indeed thinking of neville's haze but I was reading recently the same thing from Sam the Skunkman, that hazes, nowadays have to be outcross to express some of their fine characteristics. As you know , I havent done any haze breeding so I only base my thoughts on what the haze breeders say... but I find all this very fascinating and I like to think of different breeding scenarios . Most companies only offer 50% haze hybrids which I think it is not enough to fully express the haze high ( for example cross a haze to a skunk and the haze high is ruined ) but I think a 75% haze hybrid is enough to express the haze high ( backcrossed ... or not ) and just enough practical for growing .

I really like your haze breeding ideas and examples you gave! Of course I agree with you that saying you must use a haze father and not a haze mother is dumb! For example TFD sells fuma con dios and diablos ( skunkxhaze / hazexskunk ) and both are very good, different of course but both unique and very good. Or La Nina uses the MNS haze female and its one of the best haze hybrids I have smoked. SamS sell's the haze x skunk and the Old school Thai Haze x skunk which both use a haze female ( I am pretty sure ) and not a haze male.

One thing more is that I find interesting is that shanti has said sometimes that he always uses the widow father when he is doing crosses as he had tried and tested the progeny with many plants and he found the male passes the qualities he wants, which there may be a truth in that. Some strains may pass some qualities ( for example the high .. or flavour ) mostly if the parent is female or male. I think breeding can get very complex.


And here is what shanti says about the haze male ... an interesting read

" Originally Posted by Shantibaba
Should Haze be used on the male side only?_or does it matter.
Well again it depends upon what you are wanting to achieve. I use the pure Haze male line for any seed I produce with a haze. But actually sometimes if you have bred with one pure haze and then bred it to another pure haze the combination that are produced can be far more better than sticking to a single haze male. It goes somewhat similar to horse breeding. Get a few charts of well bred thoroughbreds and study the male influence. If a male from generation combines with a male with the same blood line in say two or three generations later the results can be almost magical."

I will pm you soon .. ! And thanks again for your view on haze breeding

 

[Kenny Lingus]

5weeks after preflowering actually. Put it in at 1 of april in tiny cup, and saw preflowers around early may, and here it is now... 3days ago



I often am amazed at how quick things finish in my tent. (I am able to have pretty cool and stable temps so I hope these will finish pretty soon. Think they're at least 16-18weeks plants.

PS! I have reduced the light hours from 1st of may. 15min every other week or so, but I stop now at 11hrs15min days.


The rest of the seed pack is growing at a mates place and he have vegged them 6-8weeks and haven't seen signs of sex yet. (Although he is partly blind and are not very observant right visually. Soon I will receive them in cloned form and will make a personal run of them too. (5-6 OT;s at once!!!Jeez that'll be something.

I've been a bit lazy and ill lately and haven't made a true sativa box yet, but gonna make a tall 600MH or 400HPS cool-tube driven cabinet for them tropical long season ones. Also need to make room and a base for a tiny 60cm by 60cm and 120cm tall home-box. Gonna use it for a 250MH veg.

 

[dubi]

High Kenny,

Looks like she has a nice structure for flowering. Oldtimer's haze likes to branch crazy but node lenght is short-medium.

Dont expect much advances in the first month and half of flowering, she starts to get weight and volume after 7th-8th week of flowering.

I think is a good idea flower different females together. You'll get a better idea about her genetic diveristy, and hopefully you'll get a wider pheno representation.

Be patient and enjoy the pleasure of growing

 

[Kenny Lingus]

It seems as most tops are in budding mode now, so I hope it'll be some ready within another 8weeks

I'll do all together from cuttings and then I'll treat them all the same and see differences more clearly. Thx for helping me out dubi.

BTW: You know what OT haze is at sedbay now? (they're unmarked.)

 

[dubi]

It's a plesure Kenny,

Oldtimer's Haze we are offering right now at Seedbay comes from work with haze mother 1, selected for potency and resin production. There wont probably be available more haze differentiated seedlines, haze seeds we decide to move will be sold simply as Oldtimer's haze. There will be more incensey selected haze types available at the end of the year.

 

[Ulysses]

Dubi-

So the Oldtimers Haze on SBay are #1 Female with #6 male? Or are the males all mixed?

Do the current seeds produce buds that have the clear, warm, electric high?

"Purple/green female 1 is more powerful on the 'evil' side, strong accelerated, tachycardiac, almost trembling kind of high." I am hoping the #6 male made the female less evil!

How did the Colombian x OTHaze cross turn out?

 

[dubi]

Helo Ulysses,

Oldtimer's haze available at Seedbay right now came from purple/green mother 1 pollinated by male 6 (green thai pheno), then inbred one generation more selecting for potency, consistency and high resin production. This new generation finishes 2-3 weeks earlier than past haze releases. They will be last oldtimer's haze lots available till new reproduction, late in the season. So next oldtimer's haze seeds will be probably available around march 09. Next reproduction will be focused towards purple and green incensey types.

Honestly, we havent fully tried the Colombian x Haze cross, grew a few but they were very leafy. Oldtimer's Haze x Nepal Mist F2 (Nepalese Kathmandu x Kali mist F2) it's the best oldtimer's haze cross we have tested by now. Super powerful and resinous pure sativa smoke. We are planning a few african haze hybrids for this year.

 

[Ras Pablo]

Great work Dubi!!!

Que gran trabajo Dubi!! estare atento a estos nuevos proyectos.

Un abrazoo!

 

[pebble]

good day all
some delicious buds and very beautifull Purple OldTimer's Haze, will get a very good cured





and pics from OldTimer's Haze in soil, this one is green pheno mostly Mexican/Colombian

big hug and (kiss)

 

[Ras Pablo]

Delicious!!
Very nice lime color this Haze

 

[dubi]

High pebble!

Lovely lonely green haze, she's developing her root system before explode in growth. Im sure she would love the company of other haze sisters! :wink:

Enjoy the summer pablos! :smile: dubi

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Ahhh! I was out of town 3days when the temps suddelny climbed from 20c to 33c and my OT Hazes got all dried out at root. This happened just now, after 1month veg/3bloom for one plant, and 4month bloom straight from sprouting for the other one... A huge pity I must say, but that's the prize for growing large plants in mini-pots at a little less than 3liters. So now I need to establish new cuts and flower immediately. I have 4 different females and 1 male OT. (I believe some auto watered coco coir will be my best bet to get them through... I'll also try to make the box I've dreamed about to let them flourish in more suitable light cycle and warmer middletemps....)

Dubi or anyone: How can I get the best out of the partly premature and very wispy/twiggy haze buds I now got? (Would you recommend stripping the branches and brick it up somehow to give it a cure.

 

[DEVIL OG]

Purple Haze mother 3 (line 3x6) produces almost only purple/red phenos. :wink:

I hope it helps.

Are these for sell anywhere? I really want a red pheno that smells like wine.
If I can find that pheno in the current seeds you offer on SB.. please let me know.

I would love some red wine dubi!

Once I find what Im looking for and produce a mother to clone from.. how much time should I expect to shave off to reach the finished product?

Thanks

 

[DEVIL OG]

Someone's probably gonna try to smack me over the head for asking but.. isn't tropical weather just hotter temps with more humidity? Couldn't I just make it more humid in my grow area,mimic the sun and give them more root space to ease there pain?

I danno what I'm talking about,smoke one

 

[Kenny Lingus]

Don't think the f3xm6 is available anymore. (tHE sEEDBAY oth IS FURTHER LINE-BREEDING ON FEMALE #1)


stable day/night temps from 20-28centigrades, bright and cool light in 50-70% RH for fine slender buds within 3,5-4,5 months is possible when the right cutting/mom is chosen. (Keeping good distance from the bulbs may help when growing extreme sativas as they tend to re-flower if the heat/light get to intense.

But, when all comes to all, I must admit that my first Oldtimer run didn't reach full maturity and probably ain't the best person to guide you here... (I lost 1months of production/ripening from major heat stress and dry spell when out of town.)

 

[DEVIL OG]

sorry to hear that about your plant ..
Thx for the tip on the light

I hope its possible to still find a Red pheno with a wine flavor or smell. At the least a red pheno

 

[dubi]

Ahhh! I was out of town 3days when the temps suddelny climbed from 20c to 33c and my OT Hazes got all dried out at root. This happened just now, after 1month veg/3bloom for one plant, and 4month bloom straight from sprouting for the other one... A huge pity I must say, but that's the prize for growing large plants in mini-pots at a little less than 3liters. So now I need to establish new cuts and flower immediately. I have 4 different females and 1 male OT. (I believe some auto watered coco coir will be my best bet to get them through... I'll also try to make the box I've dreamed about to let them flourish in more suitable light cycle and warmer middletemps....)

Dubi or anyone: How can I get the best out of the partly premature and very wispy/twiggy haze buds I now got? (Would you recommend stripping the branches and brick it up somehow to give it a cure.

Sorry to hear it Kenny,

Here is also a pain to grow indoors at summer time. Most growers close the flower room till autumn, good air conditioners are necessary to finish correctly a summer indoor cycle here in south europe.

I like to visit mother room diarly all summer, at least each 2 days, but no more than 3 days because old clones in the small pots easily die. Haze doesnt enjoy with excessive long and dry periods.

Im glad you had clones to re start the grow, it'd be a pitty to lost the genetics. Best wishes for next round! dubi