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Old School White Widow
- Thread starter MoeFunk
- Start date
Photo of my WWs from seedsman not too sure about the old school maybes give them a shout, Before and After.
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Nice!
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Greatdalas
Well-known member
Photo of my WWs from seedsman not too sure about the old school maybes give them a shout, Before and After.
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What is the smell of this ww, pine or citrus?
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Royal flush shanti himself to peoples faces around Europe will admit it was a clone around before he ever worked the line.....in fact I believe thers filmed interviews wer he confirms it was a clone before he ever worked the line....most of us back here have known for all this for along long time.... things like bud buny, star light, Crystal lighting wer all white widow clone only hybrids that wer in the coffee shops from the early days.....I wonder if anyone has actually looked at the widow shedual shanti put up...its quite obvious to anyone wen looked at carefully that its a atempt at making a copy father for a clone.
T
TakenByTheSky
Photo of my WWs from seedsman not too sure about the old school maybes give them a shout, Before and After.
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Looks excellent, I had great yield and good quality from female seeds WW but I found the high and smell to be boring typical Dutch
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
Hi Dark both star light and Crystal lighting are NlxWidow crosses.Could not find info on the bunny or the master widow.
In the 2 decades i have read posted on the boards i have never read about them.
The only story apart from Shantis on the widow was from Ingemar and going by what shanti has posted Ingemar was a grower and supplied GHS with flower and shanti GHS gave him a clone.
WHITE WIDOW: A LEGACY STRAIN
White Widow is a hybrid cannabis strain that was first released in 1994. It is an extremely popular strain known for being very potent, well-balanced, and always of a high-quality. It is a cross between a Brazilian landrace sativa female and a unique South Indian hybrid male.
THE ORIGINS OF WHITE WIDOW
Since making its debut in the early 1990s, White Widow has built up a huge reputation. Not only is it treasured by both users and cannabis cultivators across the globe, but it’s powerful genetics have also given rise to a vast variety of new cannabis strains, including White Russian, White Rhino, Blue Widow, and many more.
Today, almost any seed bank worth its weight has released its own version of White Widow. However, despite the strain’s popularity, tracking down its exact origins is surprisingly difficult.
There are 2 main theories about who created the original White Widow released in 1994.
The first theory claims the strain was discovered and created by a cannabis breeder known as Shantibaba, the former co-owner of Green House Seeds and current founder of Mr Nice Seeds and CBD Crew.
The second theory behind the origins of White Widow credit the creation of the strain to a breeder known as Ingemar. Ingemar apparently worked on a variety of strains for Green House seeds in the past, and receives a lot of support from the Dutch breeding community as playing a key role in the creation of the original White Widow.
Shantibaba's version:
Shantibaba is known to have worked alongside many other famous cannabis breeders, including Nevil Schoenmaker, father of the first Dutch seed bank. Back in the day Shantibaba founded Green House Seeds together with Arjan Roskam. When working at genetics for Green House Seeds he created and released White Widow in 1994.
How Shantibaba and Arjan came across the unique genetics used to produce this infamous strain isn’t quite clear. The Brazilian landrace mother used to create White Widow is rumoured to be Manga Rosa, a famous variety native to Brazil. The South Indian father, on the other hand, is rumoured to have been introduced to Shantibaba on a trip to India in the 1990s.
Rumours suggest Shantibaba stumbled across the South Indian father after being brought to a cannabis farm in the mountains of Kerala by a local farmer. The farmer apparently pointed Shantibaba towards a unique hybrid that had been selectively bred for optimum resin production for years.
Leaving India with a fresh batch of seeds from the farm only a few days later, Shantibaba returned to The Netherlands. One of those seeds brought back from his trip would eventually give birth to the unique male believed to be the father of the White Widow we know and love today.
Crossing these genetics with the unique Brazilian mother mentioned earlier, Shantibaba is said to have bred the original White Widow, which he bred and stabilized further for some time before releasing it.
A few years later, Shantibaba would go on to leave Green House Seeds following conflicts with Arjan and he took the genetics of White Widow with him. Shantibaba teamed up with Nevil Schoenmaker and Howard 'Mr Nice' Marks to form Mr Nice Seeds. Mr. Nice Seeds launched 'Black Widow' in order to compete with the White Widow marketed and sold by Arjan Roskam at Green House Seeds.
Ingemar's Version:
Ingemar is a well-known breeder from the south of Holland. He claims the seeds of the original White Widow were accidentally found in a batch of hand rubbed hashish. The seeds were then bred by him for about 6 years to perfect this new variety.
In an interview from a long time ago he was asked if the genetics of White Widow sold by Green House Seeds really came from him. He said: "Yes, it´s the same one. I gave Arjan the genetics and the name years ago and he is the only one that has permission to use the name and genetics."
Arjan Roskam from Green House Seeds backs up Ingemar's story and claims the 'real deal' comes from Ingemar and that his former partner Shantibaba has nothing to do with the creation of this incredible Hall of Fame legend.
These days genetics from Ingemar himself are sold under the name 'De Sjamaan Seeds'. This brand not only sells his White Widow version, but offers also some crossings between White Widow and other cannabis strains.
How many of you have ever found seeds in handrubbed hashish?
And not only that, but F1 hybrid seeds? (As seen in the progeny of White Widow)
@hempy
The Haze Whisperer
How many of you have ever found seeds in handrubbed hashish?
And not only that, but F1 hybrid seeds? (As seen in the progeny of White Widow)
I know what breeders seeds i went with and it wasn't Ingemar's Version pics prove i found what i was looking for.
Seeds in rubbed hash yep a believable story
Y'all know the 'Waterboy letter' from Arjan right? If not, read up.
This is what Arjan posted on MrNice forums and other Cannaboards and websites.
Don't forget 'liar' and 'cheater' are Arjan Roskamp his middle names. He also got caught red-handed bribing Hightimes Cannabis Cups judges too. It won't ever be forgotten!
--------------------
The truth about...
The truth about Shanti Bla Bla aka Waterboy
After many many years of reading rumors and false accusations about Arjan and our company on the internet, Arjan decided it was time to set the record straight. This is a letter written by Arjan that uncovers the real truth about what really happened when he started. We would normally not do this, but kids on the internet are starting to cut and paste statements from rumors and lies spread about us, so we now feel its time for them to learn about the facts, to stop speculating and get all the cards on the table.
Dear Cannabis World
Be aware of imitations
This letter is a moment of truth. It is a moment to thank all growers and smokers worldwide for their support for the Green House Seed Co and our dream/mission of creating awareness eventually leading to legalizing this incredible plant all over the world. In this industry, there isn’t a better example of creating and building equity, than Green House: the successful grower turned into a business that has grown into a family, that inspires a entire community/culture and a foundation that tries to help the people that are not in a position to help themselves.
It all started in 1983 when I met a very inspired man in Thailand, a true guru. One of the main things this great man taught me was to always believe in myself, to strive to achieve goals in my life, and to create a peaceful harmony in your body and mind so you can enjoy life to the maximum.
He was a very old man when I met him in the jungle of Thailand, where he was doing a lot of charitable work such as working with heroine addicts.
I only spent a week with him but I learned so much that it would take a book to explain the depth of this man; he said that if I would believe in myself I could be part of something very beautiful.
He looked at me and said: “The world is going to be destroyed by humans.” I was only 18 years old, it was 1983; but I saw something in his eyes and I believed in him. So I asked: “what can I do?” He looked at me and said: “It’s all in the Cannabis Plant”.
Then he went on explaining to me about how this plant could overthrow pharmaceuticals, chemicals and even governments because of its power.
I looked at him and thought maybe he was crazy; but at the same time I felt by looking in his eyes that he was dead serious. He looked at me and said: ”You are young and strong, I want you to go back and dedicate your life to this plant”. After seeing him curing heroine addicts with cannabis I was convinced. Heroin is one of the worst addictions to cure, but the plant could win.
This is my background; this is why I believe that good healthy principles should be standard for our world. Things like believing in yourself to achieve goals, and to create something that a lot of people benefit from, or walking away from bad people in order to avoid jealousy.
Because once you become successful all these things will come to hunt you and try to destroy you.
Basically, as the old Thai guru said, being successful in this world creates wars in other people’s heads.
One of the most important teachings he left to me is to never talk bad about other people even if they do so about you. He told me, “Ignore them, they will go away.”
After collecting many different types of seeds during my travels between 1985 to 1990, I decided to launch my own seed co in 1995 in Amsterdam. At the Green House our staff becomes our family and friends and we share everything with each-other and for this reason, I was nice enough to offer Scott 25% of the shares in the new company I took the initiative to register, this later turned out to be a mistake, but it didnt keep me dwelling on the past, I have long moved on and built up something much better......
As you all know, the Green House now is one of the most successful businesses in our whole industry, with the best Coffeeshops, and the worlds leading Seed Company. Since 2006 the Green House Seed co has grown tremendously, but only through hard work, dedication and large investments into research, development, and community/media projects. We now have a state of the art breeding facility, our own documentary series "strain hunters", the automatic seed selector that is able to scan seeds to sort the based on certain characteristics, improving germination rates and many more projects. The Green House employs a huge family of more than 100 people and can no longer be compared to the green house seed company that I started together with several other people, who I invited to come work with me under the GREEN HOUSE name. In those days, ALL of us had to learn certain things, since there was no one else to follow.
We have been working our butts off for the last twenty years, often more than 20 hours a day. We are a great team, and we have been taking very big risks.
I have never been writing much on the forums, but this time I will make an exception, since some people are trying to re-write history and, of course, are failing. It is time that I speak the truth. And to be honest I am writing this piece more for my staff than for myself.
In 1995 I hired a guy called Scott Blackey to water my plants and take care of the sales in the Green House Seed Company. Scott later became a partner in the company that we registered together with 2 other share holders. As we all know today, it was a complete failure; he even stated it himself on the icmag forum. We never sold many seeds or made a profit, and I have never talked in public about these three years (’95-’98) when I worked with him; but now that he has been talking very bad about Green House for the last 14 years, and broadcasting immature videos on Youtube, it is time I clarify a few things.
We will discuss some of the lies that he has published himself (what a fool) on the icmag forum. I never had anything against Scott and thought everything was fine, we both went our separate ways. Scott thought a little different about that, and obviously does not like me at all.
We never reacted until now, and there are a few reasons for this:
1. As King of Cannabis, by Dutch costume you should never talk bad about other people.
2. As a human being you should never talk bad about other people.
3. To give him any credit would be too much, so we were just ignoring him. Basic business principles.
4. Anyone who talks about you, good or bad, produces advertisement. And his stupid little war has created a lot of business for us.
5. We collected over the years a large number of fake facts and information that he spread over the web, and filed everything.
So here a few facts: who is Scott Blackey? He calls himself Shanti Baba, which means “quiet, quiet guru”. We call him “ShantiBlaBla”, a.k.a. “Waterboy”.
What’s his technique? It’s the copying technique, that he learnt form his father, Martin Blackey who is a so-called gambler. Martin wrote a book about gambling, which just happens to be a copy of another book. Like father, like son.
Shantiblabla arrives, sits down with you, smokes a joint, talks for hours, and in the end you are convinced of his story. This is what more than one person told me.
He only works with famous names to look more important. First he did that with myself, the King of Cannabis. Then he used Luca Bargini in Switzerland. And then he used Neville and Mr. Nice.
With Luca Bargini and myself he really did some work, but with Neville (he calls him Nev, to look familiar) and Mr. Nice he never really worked. Mr. Nice himself stated in several magazines that he had never had a working relationship with Shantibaba. How funny. I could go on for days, but I will keep it brief and clear.
Now let’s go on and analyze the short history between Green House and Waterboy (and these are just the proven facts written by Waterboy himself and icmag that we filed).
Here are just a few:
1. Waterboy claims to have invented white widow. How does he dare?
Ingemar invented WW already in 1987 long before he was living in Holland.
It was called Arnhem’s Wonder and already won the first HL cup in 1989.
Everybody knew this except some wise guys on icmag. For those who don’t believe this, please call Coffeeshop Catweazel or Roger from the grow shop; they worked with Ingmar for a long time.
Roger has always sold the clones he had. He had a famous grow shop in Nijmegen. I bought the male and female among other plants in 1992 and only crossed them in 1994. I did not have to do any breading on the White Widow at that time because Ingemar had already done it for us.
And to this day you can still buy original clones of the White Widow in that area of Holland.
2. Waterboy also claims to have upgraded the SSH. In fact he calls himself “the father and mother of the White Widow and Super Silver Haze” in the Italian Dolce Vita magazine. Really? Wow.
How could have Waterboy upgraded the Super Silver Haze that Neville had created and that was so good to have won three cups in a row (’97, ’98, ’99)? What did he make better? Isn’t that the funniest thing?
As a matter of fact I can talk about something even funnier: when we entered the High Times Cannabis Cup in 2008 with SSH and got 3rd place, Shantiblabla claimed that it was his grower selling Super Silver Haze to us. He wrote this himself on the forums, as usual contradicting another version. In reality, which grower in Holland actually sold this to me? You know who? We bought it form Derry, who helped us out at the last moment. Later we found out it was amnesia haze that came out third. How funny, Waterboy didn’t recognize his own super silver haze.
3. Waterboy claims that we spend €35.000 a month on advertisement and that we make no profit, and that all this money comes from the Coffeeshops. The reality is that we spend only €15.000 a month and we are still so popular. He forgot to mention that we spend much more in research and development and expeditions.
4. Waterboy claims that we sell no seeds but he gets thousands of complaints about us. Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? The real facts are that he has no seeds and that he does not sell much, apart from a few packs over the Internet. We, on the other hand, sold over 350000 packs of seeds last year. In Spain Shantibaba only had one distributor. Nobody else wanted him and he had no seeds for a very long time. How come? We keep reading on the forums that his stock is low, and that people are waiting for his seeds for a very long time. Sometimes for years! What varieties is he growing? Never-ending sativas? Even those flower in 16 weeks!
Marco Renda waited for very long, and only received 10 packs of a few varieties back in 2009, after that nothing. Wow, 10 packs of each? Really? Incredible. He waited more than a year for this.
Funny if you think that Marco Renda got 15.000 packs from us last week, just to give you an idea, and he will need more by the end of the year. LOL!
Some of you guys reading this, especially on the icmag forum, must be really confused by now. Well, let me give you some more facts about the sales, because sales are a measure of efficiency and quality.
5.Sales figures speak loud words: in 2010 we sold more than any other seed bank worldwide, while Waterboy managed to spread around… close to nothing.
How sad. For proof of our turnover, you can ask the largest distributor in Spain: Plantasur. Our distributors sell incredible amounts of seeds from green house each year. We now have 15 large distributors, and it is estimated that more than 2000 shops carry our seeds around the world.
Yes, Waterboy. You can see that all your false accusations in the media were your biggest mistake. And this is exactly what the old man in Thailand warned me about. It’s called Jealousy.
6. Just some more facts: I hired Waterboy between ’95 and ’98 and, like his father stated a few times, he loves swimming but not working. And in this company Greenhouse, we work.
Because of his poor performance we had complains about germination, low stock and no customer service. And in ’98 we kicked him out of the company for stealing clones. Later on Luca, his ex-partner, told me he took those clones to Switzerland.
7.Shantibaba states everywhere that I don’t have my original mother plants because he thinks that if you repeat this enough times, people will start to believe it. Bullshit. Also in this instance it’s the other way around: during the raid in Switzerland in 2001, when Shantibaba went to prison, he lost all his material except Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze. Then, after another bust, roughly 2 years after the first one, he came out of prison; and he started from the beginning, growing up seeds from Green House F1 stock to select new mothers. Then he lost everything again: in 2007 he got busted again, and was forced to start all over for the third time; with the result that the seeds he sells are now inferior F2 genetics.
Due to the bust of 2007, in 2008 he could not sell any seeds; he had to select new mothers and start all over from scratch. If he would have those mothers, he would have delivered the seeds to his distributors (you would assume).
I asked “the Nose”, our friend in Amsterdam, how many packs Shantibaba sold in Holland (because he is his distributor). You know what he said? “He did not sell a single pack in 2008”. I couldn’t believe this, so I asked again: “Really”? “Not one” he replied. Shanti Blablablabla. Green House did more than a million that year, and this was only in Holland.
Then in 2009-2010 Shantiblabla’s Spanish partner Carullo walked out on him, and he had no access left to his own F1 genetics. Carullo himself sent a letter about this matter to the Spanish cannabis associations. So in 2009 and 2010 Shantiblabla wasn’t able to deliver any seeds. Again.
Carullo specified in his letter Shantiblabla’s production technique: one single male used to pollinate 10 different female strains, all outdoors, with the result that all his genetics became very similar to one another.
So Waterboy, if you are such a great grower, why do you still have germination problems? They are all over the icmag forum.
The reason is that you sell old crap. And please stop fooling your online friends by first selling a pack for 200 Dollars and then giving them 3 seeds for free. What a scam. It’s a pity that some inexperienced people still think breeding cannabis is rocket science.
And Waterboy, what about Neville? Is he really working with you? How funny. I hear completely different stories about his presently bad situation. I don’t want to speak bad about Neville. Weren’t you the guy that didn’t want to work with him? And didn’t he call you “daddy’s kid” when you stepped out of our olive project at the last moment? You and I know Neville left already in 2003 to Perth under strange circumstances; his Grand Jury indictment was withdrawn. So how are you working together?
He has been in Australia for 5 years. Taking advantage of his situation right now is very bad. In Holland we call this ‘fucking with somebody else’s dick’. Or are you paying him to use his name, like you did with Howard Marks? By the way, did poor Howard have to give away most of his film-rights away to you for some cash?
But this is your way of doing things, isn’t it?
How come that when I was working with Neville, between 1994 and 2001, I got no other strains from him than Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze? Well, because he only had Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze left from his time at Sensi Seeds.
Since 1992 Neville did no breeding work at all, as we, the real breeders, know. Until 1998 Neville was just growing pot with the guys who now have the only medical license in Holland: the Bedrocan crew.
Waterboy, what you keep stating is completely false: you claim that nobody else has the original plants of SSH and NH. Bullshit again. Neville gave them to the people in Tilburg and Breda who are still working with it. Neville gave it to the Bedrocan crew so now the SSH is in the pharmacies all over The Netherlands; Neville gave it to the Nose; Neville gave it to the crazy bitch; Neville gave it to Wendy, who was working for him at one point; and Neville gave it to Misha and Paris. So it’s all over the place.
Actually, Neville himself lost everything in 2002 by a raid on his house in Bemel.
In the last 9 years I got nothing from him, and you claim you are working with him right now? Shanti Blablablablablablablabla. It’s exactly as Howard Marks stated already: “Shantibaba only uses my name”.
You claim to be the nice guy, so good for our cannabis world. Fourteen years of talking bad about Greenhouse. This is what we call King Arjan Syndrome.
If you are such a nice guy, why don’t you give your mother plants away? You state everywhere that you never gave your plants away. Strange for a guy who pretends he’s not in for the money. Don’t you get sick of telling that story to everyone? You keep repeating that I am only in for the money, but the reality is that over the years I donated many of my original mothers to people who deserved them.
Few examples: I donated the Great White Shark to many growers, and the White Rhino to the Houseplant crew in Madrid. I also gave the Arjan’s Haze 1 and Arjan’s Haze 3 to growers in Bilbao and in Barcelona.
Also, Shanti Blablabla: weren’t you part of the blow-up in Switzerland, where you made 7 million in three years time? Many say that when the people of Switzerland were finally getting close to legalization, you and a few others ruined it all, by exporting hundreds of kilos. And after that move, you bought yourself a nice resort in Bali and retired, talking only bullshit over the Internet. Or was it your father handling the Internet business while you were in prison? I heard that you were still answering emails from the can. LOL.
Telling everyone that you are not in for the money is ridiculous, when you got so much cash on your bank accounts. But I can understand, it must be frustrating to see the rise to success of Greenhouse after you left.
Because you claim that you left yourself! Must be even more painful then...
Keep having the King Arjan Syndrome? Do you want to be me? Or what else is you problem?
If you are such a nice guy, why are you putting immature movies on Youtube, like “Greenhouse Investigation” and the other one?
And why you flag off my videos, like you did with the Great Cannabis Cup Crop video in 2006? Does it hurt that bad that I get 600.000 hits per year on a movie and you only get a few thousands? Do you realize you look like a fool? Think of the time when you let Jesse re-write the history about the Haze, on TYU magazine. You keep asking other people to write your stories. When will you grow up man? At least write the stories yourself.
Please, use your energies to make seeds that actually germinate. This would be already a major accomplishment for you.
Incredibly, I also heard you are a strain hunter now. LOL!
You claim to be searching for strains in Indonesia. What?
Maybe we should both show the stamps in our passports. My passport is full with stamps from all over the world; and yours is full of shit from Bali and Australia, where you keep flying business class with all the money you made in Switzerland.
Greenhouse represents up to 50% of the market In Holland, Spain, England, Italy, and in many more countries. In most shops it works like this: for every GH pack sold, one pack is sold from all other companies together. Just call any growshop in Spain, or ask large distributors like Basil Bush or Plantasur and you will have an idea of the volume of seeds we sell compared to Shantiblabla.
Should I waste a few more words on Waterboy? All right...
Here is the final proof. Shantiblabla claims he was running my facility. Maybe he forgot about the footage I made back in 1996, when I was teaching him how to water the plants and how to hang a few lamps. LOL.
Should I put this on Youtube? Or is this too humiliating?
Where is your footage, Shantiblabla? Are you going to show again and again that old footage that we have been watching since 2001? It’s the one about the large commercial glasshouses in Switzerland; the ones you gave away to Jesse. Probably you don’t have much else to show, simply because you are not growing anymore. Or maybe you have 10 lights somewhere where you let somebody else make new F1’s from my seeds.
You cry that I had a fall-out with all of my partners; but again, you just turn things around. Didn’t you have an Austrian guy as a partner before me? And then me? And then Luca? And then Neville? Isn’t that 4 people in 10 years? And what about 3 wives in 10 years? Making children from different mothers: is that building relationships? No, it is not, Shanti Blablabla.
My wife and I are together 26 years. My partners Olaf, Joachim and Franco are still the same. So why are you telling stupid lies about myself and my partners on the forums? It’s called jealousy; it’s called frustration.
Oh yeah, you say “make sure you don’t make feminized seeds, because that’s for fake seed companies”. What arrogance! As we know, you have never bred one plant in your life!
You, Shanti Blablabla, only breed for the “elite” growers of the forums. But you don’t care about the small growers in Tokyo, Hong Kong or Italy, the ones that thanks to my feminized seeds are able to grow safer, and more.
And what about the black people in Africa? Thanks to my feminized seeds they now get ten times more value for their crops, they can finally buy medicines and a mosquito net, and finally send their kids to school. But you don’t care for none of these people probably.
Well, it’s a pity that a guy like you, who claims he is so important to our world, with all his money, is not actually helping poor people.
The Greenhouse Foundation on the contrary cares: we pay school fees for 200 children, we built houses in Africa and India for people in need, and we are busy with new project every year. We don’t advertise our Foundation because we don’t want to put growers at risk, and we don’t need to profit from our charitable actions.
I just ask you, for once, Shanti Blablabla a.k.a. Waterboy: do something good with all your money instead of making stupid Youtube movies about Green House. Stop insulting my best friend Franco, a guy that has shown more dedication to the plant in one day than you can show in your whole life. And stop writing PM’s to my staff, it’s hilarious!
So, tell me: what will you copy next? Are you going to write a book like Mr. Nice? Is this the reason why you’re hanging out with him: to get all the contacts? What about you claiming to have invented the old strain called Red Devil? You probably forgot that I got those seeds 22 years ago from a guy called Richard Davis, from California. By a huge coincidence I’ve met him again, when I was attending the first American cannabis trade-show in L.A. (where you didn’t have enough balls to show up). He says “Hello”!
I could go on and on with more of this, but I have better things to do and I don't want to completely embarrass waterboy.
The Green House is a team and could not exist with the input of many people. It's not a one man show.
Sorry Scott, but you keep writing hate mail. It’s inevitable that one day it will all come back to you. Enjoy, this is your day.
Arjan
King of Cannabis
Creator of worlds leading Coffeeshops.
Creator of the best Seed Company in the world.
Breeder of many champion strains.
Winner of more than 100 cups worldwide.
Inventor of colored cannabis seeds.
Creator of the first DNA profiles on commercial seeds.
Creator of the first terpenes profiles.
Creator of the first grow movies on Youtube for the general public.
Creator of Strain Hunters documentaries, website and forum community.
Creator of the first easy-to-use and strain-specific 1-component cannabis feeding.
Creator of the first germination-checking seed selector.
PS: Just a small reminder, dear Shantiblabla, concerning what you stated about companies creating feminized seeds: “that’s for a bunch of morons who cannot breed, and I will never sell feminized seeds because is bad for the planet”….
Let’s see if you can hold true to your own words.
This is what Arjan posted on MrNice forums and other Cannaboards and websites.
Don't forget 'liar' and 'cheater' are Arjan Roskamp his middle names. He also got caught red-handed bribing Hightimes Cannabis Cups judges too. It won't ever be forgotten!
--------------------
The truth about...
The truth about Shanti Bla Bla aka Waterboy
After many many years of reading rumors and false accusations about Arjan and our company on the internet, Arjan decided it was time to set the record straight. This is a letter written by Arjan that uncovers the real truth about what really happened when he started. We would normally not do this, but kids on the internet are starting to cut and paste statements from rumors and lies spread about us, so we now feel its time for them to learn about the facts, to stop speculating and get all the cards on the table.
Dear Cannabis World
Be aware of imitations
This letter is a moment of truth. It is a moment to thank all growers and smokers worldwide for their support for the Green House Seed Co and our dream/mission of creating awareness eventually leading to legalizing this incredible plant all over the world. In this industry, there isn’t a better example of creating and building equity, than Green House: the successful grower turned into a business that has grown into a family, that inspires a entire community/culture and a foundation that tries to help the people that are not in a position to help themselves.
It all started in 1983 when I met a very inspired man in Thailand, a true guru. One of the main things this great man taught me was to always believe in myself, to strive to achieve goals in my life, and to create a peaceful harmony in your body and mind so you can enjoy life to the maximum.
He was a very old man when I met him in the jungle of Thailand, where he was doing a lot of charitable work such as working with heroine addicts.
I only spent a week with him but I learned so much that it would take a book to explain the depth of this man; he said that if I would believe in myself I could be part of something very beautiful.
He looked at me and said: “The world is going to be destroyed by humans.” I was only 18 years old, it was 1983; but I saw something in his eyes and I believed in him. So I asked: “what can I do?” He looked at me and said: “It’s all in the Cannabis Plant”.
Then he went on explaining to me about how this plant could overthrow pharmaceuticals, chemicals and even governments because of its power.
I looked at him and thought maybe he was crazy; but at the same time I felt by looking in his eyes that he was dead serious. He looked at me and said: ”You are young and strong, I want you to go back and dedicate your life to this plant”. After seeing him curing heroine addicts with cannabis I was convinced. Heroin is one of the worst addictions to cure, but the plant could win.
This is my background; this is why I believe that good healthy principles should be standard for our world. Things like believing in yourself to achieve goals, and to create something that a lot of people benefit from, or walking away from bad people in order to avoid jealousy.
Because once you become successful all these things will come to hunt you and try to destroy you.
Basically, as the old Thai guru said, being successful in this world creates wars in other people’s heads.
One of the most important teachings he left to me is to never talk bad about other people even if they do so about you. He told me, “Ignore them, they will go away.”
After collecting many different types of seeds during my travels between 1985 to 1990, I decided to launch my own seed co in 1995 in Amsterdam. At the Green House our staff becomes our family and friends and we share everything with each-other and for this reason, I was nice enough to offer Scott 25% of the shares in the new company I took the initiative to register, this later turned out to be a mistake, but it didnt keep me dwelling on the past, I have long moved on and built up something much better......
As you all know, the Green House now is one of the most successful businesses in our whole industry, with the best Coffeeshops, and the worlds leading Seed Company. Since 2006 the Green House Seed co has grown tremendously, but only through hard work, dedication and large investments into research, development, and community/media projects. We now have a state of the art breeding facility, our own documentary series "strain hunters", the automatic seed selector that is able to scan seeds to sort the based on certain characteristics, improving germination rates and many more projects. The Green House employs a huge family of more than 100 people and can no longer be compared to the green house seed company that I started together with several other people, who I invited to come work with me under the GREEN HOUSE name. In those days, ALL of us had to learn certain things, since there was no one else to follow.
We have been working our butts off for the last twenty years, often more than 20 hours a day. We are a great team, and we have been taking very big risks.
I have never been writing much on the forums, but this time I will make an exception, since some people are trying to re-write history and, of course, are failing. It is time that I speak the truth. And to be honest I am writing this piece more for my staff than for myself.
In 1995 I hired a guy called Scott Blackey to water my plants and take care of the sales in the Green House Seed Company. Scott later became a partner in the company that we registered together with 2 other share holders. As we all know today, it was a complete failure; he even stated it himself on the icmag forum. We never sold many seeds or made a profit, and I have never talked in public about these three years (’95-’98) when I worked with him; but now that he has been talking very bad about Green House for the last 14 years, and broadcasting immature videos on Youtube, it is time I clarify a few things.
We will discuss some of the lies that he has published himself (what a fool) on the icmag forum. I never had anything against Scott and thought everything was fine, we both went our separate ways. Scott thought a little different about that, and obviously does not like me at all.
We never reacted until now, and there are a few reasons for this:
1. As King of Cannabis, by Dutch costume you should never talk bad about other people.
2. As a human being you should never talk bad about other people.
3. To give him any credit would be too much, so we were just ignoring him. Basic business principles.
4. Anyone who talks about you, good or bad, produces advertisement. And his stupid little war has created a lot of business for us.
5. We collected over the years a large number of fake facts and information that he spread over the web, and filed everything.
So here a few facts: who is Scott Blackey? He calls himself Shanti Baba, which means “quiet, quiet guru”. We call him “ShantiBlaBla”, a.k.a. “Waterboy”.
What’s his technique? It’s the copying technique, that he learnt form his father, Martin Blackey who is a so-called gambler. Martin wrote a book about gambling, which just happens to be a copy of another book. Like father, like son.
Shantiblabla arrives, sits down with you, smokes a joint, talks for hours, and in the end you are convinced of his story. This is what more than one person told me.
He only works with famous names to look more important. First he did that with myself, the King of Cannabis. Then he used Luca Bargini in Switzerland. And then he used Neville and Mr. Nice.
With Luca Bargini and myself he really did some work, but with Neville (he calls him Nev, to look familiar) and Mr. Nice he never really worked. Mr. Nice himself stated in several magazines that he had never had a working relationship with Shantibaba. How funny. I could go on for days, but I will keep it brief and clear.
Now let’s go on and analyze the short history between Green House and Waterboy (and these are just the proven facts written by Waterboy himself and icmag that we filed).
Here are just a few:
1. Waterboy claims to have invented white widow. How does he dare?
Ingemar invented WW already in 1987 long before he was living in Holland.
It was called Arnhem’s Wonder and already won the first HL cup in 1989.
Everybody knew this except some wise guys on icmag. For those who don’t believe this, please call Coffeeshop Catweazel or Roger from the grow shop; they worked with Ingmar for a long time.
Roger has always sold the clones he had. He had a famous grow shop in Nijmegen. I bought the male and female among other plants in 1992 and only crossed them in 1994. I did not have to do any breading on the White Widow at that time because Ingemar had already done it for us.
And to this day you can still buy original clones of the White Widow in that area of Holland.
2. Waterboy also claims to have upgraded the SSH. In fact he calls himself “the father and mother of the White Widow and Super Silver Haze” in the Italian Dolce Vita magazine. Really? Wow.
How could have Waterboy upgraded the Super Silver Haze that Neville had created and that was so good to have won three cups in a row (’97, ’98, ’99)? What did he make better? Isn’t that the funniest thing?
As a matter of fact I can talk about something even funnier: when we entered the High Times Cannabis Cup in 2008 with SSH and got 3rd place, Shantiblabla claimed that it was his grower selling Super Silver Haze to us. He wrote this himself on the forums, as usual contradicting another version. In reality, which grower in Holland actually sold this to me? You know who? We bought it form Derry, who helped us out at the last moment. Later we found out it was amnesia haze that came out third. How funny, Waterboy didn’t recognize his own super silver haze.
3. Waterboy claims that we spend €35.000 a month on advertisement and that we make no profit, and that all this money comes from the Coffeeshops. The reality is that we spend only €15.000 a month and we are still so popular. He forgot to mention that we spend much more in research and development and expeditions.
4. Waterboy claims that we sell no seeds but he gets thousands of complaints about us. Isn’t that a contradiction in terms? The real facts are that he has no seeds and that he does not sell much, apart from a few packs over the Internet. We, on the other hand, sold over 350000 packs of seeds last year. In Spain Shantibaba only had one distributor. Nobody else wanted him and he had no seeds for a very long time. How come? We keep reading on the forums that his stock is low, and that people are waiting for his seeds for a very long time. Sometimes for years! What varieties is he growing? Never-ending sativas? Even those flower in 16 weeks!
Marco Renda waited for very long, and only received 10 packs of a few varieties back in 2009, after that nothing. Wow, 10 packs of each? Really? Incredible. He waited more than a year for this.
Funny if you think that Marco Renda got 15.000 packs from us last week, just to give you an idea, and he will need more by the end of the year. LOL!
Some of you guys reading this, especially on the icmag forum, must be really confused by now. Well, let me give you some more facts about the sales, because sales are a measure of efficiency and quality.
5.Sales figures speak loud words: in 2010 we sold more than any other seed bank worldwide, while Waterboy managed to spread around… close to nothing.
How sad. For proof of our turnover, you can ask the largest distributor in Spain: Plantasur. Our distributors sell incredible amounts of seeds from green house each year. We now have 15 large distributors, and it is estimated that more than 2000 shops carry our seeds around the world.
Yes, Waterboy. You can see that all your false accusations in the media were your biggest mistake. And this is exactly what the old man in Thailand warned me about. It’s called Jealousy.
6. Just some more facts: I hired Waterboy between ’95 and ’98 and, like his father stated a few times, he loves swimming but not working. And in this company Greenhouse, we work.
Because of his poor performance we had complains about germination, low stock and no customer service. And in ’98 we kicked him out of the company for stealing clones. Later on Luca, his ex-partner, told me he took those clones to Switzerland.
7.Shantibaba states everywhere that I don’t have my original mother plants because he thinks that if you repeat this enough times, people will start to believe it. Bullshit. Also in this instance it’s the other way around: during the raid in Switzerland in 2001, when Shantibaba went to prison, he lost all his material except Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze. Then, after another bust, roughly 2 years after the first one, he came out of prison; and he started from the beginning, growing up seeds from Green House F1 stock to select new mothers. Then he lost everything again: in 2007 he got busted again, and was forced to start all over for the third time; with the result that the seeds he sells are now inferior F2 genetics.
Due to the bust of 2007, in 2008 he could not sell any seeds; he had to select new mothers and start all over from scratch. If he would have those mothers, he would have delivered the seeds to his distributors (you would assume).
I asked “the Nose”, our friend in Amsterdam, how many packs Shantibaba sold in Holland (because he is his distributor). You know what he said? “He did not sell a single pack in 2008”. I couldn’t believe this, so I asked again: “Really”? “Not one” he replied. Shanti Blablablabla. Green House did more than a million that year, and this was only in Holland.
Then in 2009-2010 Shantiblabla’s Spanish partner Carullo walked out on him, and he had no access left to his own F1 genetics. Carullo himself sent a letter about this matter to the Spanish cannabis associations. So in 2009 and 2010 Shantiblabla wasn’t able to deliver any seeds. Again.
Carullo specified in his letter Shantiblabla’s production technique: one single male used to pollinate 10 different female strains, all outdoors, with the result that all his genetics became very similar to one another.
So Waterboy, if you are such a great grower, why do you still have germination problems? They are all over the icmag forum.
The reason is that you sell old crap. And please stop fooling your online friends by first selling a pack for 200 Dollars and then giving them 3 seeds for free. What a scam. It’s a pity that some inexperienced people still think breeding cannabis is rocket science.
And Waterboy, what about Neville? Is he really working with you? How funny. I hear completely different stories about his presently bad situation. I don’t want to speak bad about Neville. Weren’t you the guy that didn’t want to work with him? And didn’t he call you “daddy’s kid” when you stepped out of our olive project at the last moment? You and I know Neville left already in 2003 to Perth under strange circumstances; his Grand Jury indictment was withdrawn. So how are you working together?
He has been in Australia for 5 years. Taking advantage of his situation right now is very bad. In Holland we call this ‘fucking with somebody else’s dick’. Or are you paying him to use his name, like you did with Howard Marks? By the way, did poor Howard have to give away most of his film-rights away to you for some cash?
But this is your way of doing things, isn’t it?
How come that when I was working with Neville, between 1994 and 2001, I got no other strains from him than Neville’s Haze and Super Silver Haze? Well, because he only had Neville's Haze and Super Silver Haze left from his time at Sensi Seeds.
Since 1992 Neville did no breeding work at all, as we, the real breeders, know. Until 1998 Neville was just growing pot with the guys who now have the only medical license in Holland: the Bedrocan crew.
Waterboy, what you keep stating is completely false: you claim that nobody else has the original plants of SSH and NH. Bullshit again. Neville gave them to the people in Tilburg and Breda who are still working with it. Neville gave it to the Bedrocan crew so now the SSH is in the pharmacies all over The Netherlands; Neville gave it to the Nose; Neville gave it to the crazy bitch; Neville gave it to Wendy, who was working for him at one point; and Neville gave it to Misha and Paris. So it’s all over the place.
Actually, Neville himself lost everything in 2002 by a raid on his house in Bemel.
In the last 9 years I got nothing from him, and you claim you are working with him right now? Shanti Blablablablablablablabla. It’s exactly as Howard Marks stated already: “Shantibaba only uses my name”.
You claim to be the nice guy, so good for our cannabis world. Fourteen years of talking bad about Greenhouse. This is what we call King Arjan Syndrome.
If you are such a nice guy, why don’t you give your mother plants away? You state everywhere that you never gave your plants away. Strange for a guy who pretends he’s not in for the money. Don’t you get sick of telling that story to everyone? You keep repeating that I am only in for the money, but the reality is that over the years I donated many of my original mothers to people who deserved them.
Few examples: I donated the Great White Shark to many growers, and the White Rhino to the Houseplant crew in Madrid. I also gave the Arjan’s Haze 1 and Arjan’s Haze 3 to growers in Bilbao and in Barcelona.
Also, Shanti Blablabla: weren’t you part of the blow-up in Switzerland, where you made 7 million in three years time? Many say that when the people of Switzerland were finally getting close to legalization, you and a few others ruined it all, by exporting hundreds of kilos. And after that move, you bought yourself a nice resort in Bali and retired, talking only bullshit over the Internet. Or was it your father handling the Internet business while you were in prison? I heard that you were still answering emails from the can. LOL.
Telling everyone that you are not in for the money is ridiculous, when you got so much cash on your bank accounts. But I can understand, it must be frustrating to see the rise to success of Greenhouse after you left.
Because you claim that you left yourself! Must be even more painful then...
Keep having the King Arjan Syndrome? Do you want to be me? Or what else is you problem?
If you are such a nice guy, why are you putting immature movies on Youtube, like “Greenhouse Investigation” and the other one?
And why you flag off my videos, like you did with the Great Cannabis Cup Crop video in 2006? Does it hurt that bad that I get 600.000 hits per year on a movie and you only get a few thousands? Do you realize you look like a fool? Think of the time when you let Jesse re-write the history about the Haze, on TYU magazine. You keep asking other people to write your stories. When will you grow up man? At least write the stories yourself.
Please, use your energies to make seeds that actually germinate. This would be already a major accomplishment for you.
Incredibly, I also heard you are a strain hunter now. LOL!
You claim to be searching for strains in Indonesia. What?
Maybe we should both show the stamps in our passports. My passport is full with stamps from all over the world; and yours is full of shit from Bali and Australia, where you keep flying business class with all the money you made in Switzerland.
Greenhouse represents up to 50% of the market In Holland, Spain, England, Italy, and in many more countries. In most shops it works like this: for every GH pack sold, one pack is sold from all other companies together. Just call any growshop in Spain, or ask large distributors like Basil Bush or Plantasur and you will have an idea of the volume of seeds we sell compared to Shantiblabla.
Should I waste a few more words on Waterboy? All right...
Here is the final proof. Shantiblabla claims he was running my facility. Maybe he forgot about the footage I made back in 1996, when I was teaching him how to water the plants and how to hang a few lamps. LOL.
Should I put this on Youtube? Or is this too humiliating?
Where is your footage, Shantiblabla? Are you going to show again and again that old footage that we have been watching since 2001? It’s the one about the large commercial glasshouses in Switzerland; the ones you gave away to Jesse. Probably you don’t have much else to show, simply because you are not growing anymore. Or maybe you have 10 lights somewhere where you let somebody else make new F1’s from my seeds.
You cry that I had a fall-out with all of my partners; but again, you just turn things around. Didn’t you have an Austrian guy as a partner before me? And then me? And then Luca? And then Neville? Isn’t that 4 people in 10 years? And what about 3 wives in 10 years? Making children from different mothers: is that building relationships? No, it is not, Shanti Blablabla.
My wife and I are together 26 years. My partners Olaf, Joachim and Franco are still the same. So why are you telling stupid lies about myself and my partners on the forums? It’s called jealousy; it’s called frustration.
Oh yeah, you say “make sure you don’t make feminized seeds, because that’s for fake seed companies”. What arrogance! As we know, you have never bred one plant in your life!
You, Shanti Blablabla, only breed for the “elite” growers of the forums. But you don’t care about the small growers in Tokyo, Hong Kong or Italy, the ones that thanks to my feminized seeds are able to grow safer, and more.
And what about the black people in Africa? Thanks to my feminized seeds they now get ten times more value for their crops, they can finally buy medicines and a mosquito net, and finally send their kids to school. But you don’t care for none of these people probably.
Well, it’s a pity that a guy like you, who claims he is so important to our world, with all his money, is not actually helping poor people.
The Greenhouse Foundation on the contrary cares: we pay school fees for 200 children, we built houses in Africa and India for people in need, and we are busy with new project every year. We don’t advertise our Foundation because we don’t want to put growers at risk, and we don’t need to profit from our charitable actions.
I just ask you, for once, Shanti Blablabla a.k.a. Waterboy: do something good with all your money instead of making stupid Youtube movies about Green House. Stop insulting my best friend Franco, a guy that has shown more dedication to the plant in one day than you can show in your whole life. And stop writing PM’s to my staff, it’s hilarious!
So, tell me: what will you copy next? Are you going to write a book like Mr. Nice? Is this the reason why you’re hanging out with him: to get all the contacts? What about you claiming to have invented the old strain called Red Devil? You probably forgot that I got those seeds 22 years ago from a guy called Richard Davis, from California. By a huge coincidence I’ve met him again, when I was attending the first American cannabis trade-show in L.A. (where you didn’t have enough balls to show up). He says “Hello”!
I could go on and on with more of this, but I have better things to do and I don't want to completely embarrass waterboy.
The Green House is a team and could not exist with the input of many people. It's not a one man show.
Sorry Scott, but you keep writing hate mail. It’s inevitable that one day it will all come back to you. Enjoy, this is your day.
Arjan
King of Cannabis
Creator of worlds leading Coffeeshops.
Creator of the best Seed Company in the world.
Breeder of many champion strains.
Winner of more than 100 cups worldwide.
Inventor of colored cannabis seeds.
Creator of the first DNA profiles on commercial seeds.
Creator of the first terpenes profiles.
Creator of the first grow movies on Youtube for the general public.
Creator of Strain Hunters documentaries, website and forum community.
Creator of the first easy-to-use and strain-specific 1-component cannabis feeding.
Creator of the first germination-checking seed selector.
PS: Just a small reminder, dear Shantiblabla, concerning what you stated about companies creating feminized seeds: “that’s for a bunch of morons who cannot breed, and I will never sell feminized seeds because is bad for the planet”….
Let’s see if you can hold true to your own words.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
You might want to see the interviw shanti baba had with I think a Italian magazine on the tube.. look it up for those who dont believe..shanti admits the white widow was a clone before he ever worked the line...those strains I mentioned to hempy earlier used the original clone an wer sold in coffee shops before shanti made a seedline....me as im sure other oldtimers might remember them. Anyway wats the point in arguing wen the guy people think created it is saying himself it was a clone before he worked the line....a clone that was in holland before he got ther....pretty sad that the guy who was responsible for the clone was always doubted an the actual clone was doubted, an never got any real recognition for his part in the story.
Old school white widow ...still had that knockout punch to it though...
I know that Italian interview with Dolce Vita Magazine, Shanti says in it that Ingmar had a cut and GHS had the seedline.
He never said Ingmar had the cut before the seedline existed. Nor that he cut existed before he worked the line.
And besides how can you work a line as only a clone exists and make regular seeds? You can only outcross it.
As posted before, Ingmar claims he found that seed in handrubbed Charas...lol.
He never said Ingmar had the cut before the seedline existed. Nor that he cut existed before he worked the line.
And besides how can you work a line as only a clone exists and make regular seeds? You can only outcross it.
As posted before, Ingmar claims he found that seed in handrubbed Charas...lol.
TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Does anyone have shantis white widow breeding chart that he put up..?
Bit convenient that Ingmar makes crosses with a clone supposedly shanti gave him but the crosses date back to before the widow seedline..
I dont think he says in that interview that he gave ingmar a clone....he actually says ther was a clone before the seed line he made....an then realises he slipped up then back tracks an says "but the plants that won the cups came from my seed plants an no one elses"...even says something like he made the seed versions...a seed versions of what one would ask..quite obviously of a clone.
Shanti did win the bio cup with a plant from his seed....but ghs had also entered the cups under many categories an different white family names with the clone too.
Bit convenient that Ingmar makes crosses with a clone supposedly shanti gave him but the crosses date back to before the widow seedline..
I dont think he says in that interview that he gave ingmar a clone....he actually says ther was a clone before the seed line he made....an then realises he slipped up then back tracks an says "but the plants that won the cups came from my seed plants an no one elses"...even says something like he made the seed versions...a seed versions of what one would ask..quite obviously of a clone.
Shanti did win the bio cup with a plant from his seed....but ghs had also entered the cups under many categories an different white family names with the clone too.
Doesn't it anybody strikes as odd that even on the website of Green House Seeds White Widow is listed as a cross between a Brazilian and a South Indian? As what Shanti says. Not what Ingmars says with his imported handrubbed charas seed.
How can a seed from a plant between 2 different continents end up in imported handrubbed hashish? If that's somehow possible (not truly impossible I think), how do they then know the lineage of this mysterious seed after Ingmar poked it out of the hash in Holland?
https://shop.greenhouseseeds.nl/feminised-cannabis-seeds/white-widow/
How can a seed from a plant between 2 different continents end up in imported handrubbed hashish? If that's somehow possible (not truly impossible I think), how do they then know the lineage of this mysterious seed after Ingmar poked it out of the hash in Holland?
https://shop.greenhouseseeds.nl/feminised-cannabis-seeds/white-widow/
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TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
The strangest thing is how the flowering time from two long flowering sativas only went 8-10 weeks max an was originally only a small plant that looked to be bred or pushed to do nothing but optimum resin production.....just like the man shanti says he met an got the mother from.. who had his own fields an had been working aline for optimum resin production for years....hhhmmm sounds like familiar story .
^The South Indian Shanti got from the farmer was a hybrid, see previous post from Hempy. It was not a pure landrace. Hence the shorter growtime.
For anybody interested, here is a link to Ingmar his White Widow listing. (desjamaan company).
https://sjamaan.com/en/white-widow-de-sjamaan-feminised-seeds.html
He even stopped writing that his seeds are the original ones and that he's the original breeder. I think we're having an old debate where one of the parties already forfeited.
For anybody interested, here is a link to Ingmar his White Widow listing. (desjamaan company).
https://sjamaan.com/en/white-widow-de-sjamaan-feminised-seeds.html
He even stopped writing that his seeds are the original ones and that he's the original breeder. I think we're having an old debate where one of the parties already forfeited.
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TheDarkStorm
Well-known member
Cvh do you by any chance have access to shantis breeding chart for the white widow.....I think itl be quite helpful in this discussion.
