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Old School White Widow

Dime

Well-known member
Arjan doesn’t claim to have created the white widow, he says ghs bought the parent plants from ingemar
Paradise also claims that they got theirs from Ingemar, it would be interesting to ask Dutch Passion ,they have a really good widow.
 

mr.brunch

Well-known member
Veteran
I nearly bought some ww seeds early 2000s but was told it was ‘notoriously unstable’ and it was all about finding the right cutting like the coffeeshops did.
 

OleReynard

Well-known member
Joey weed has a good white widow, I found a keeper in 3 packs and a few close to keepers
What's the smell on this like?
I've grown out alot of Mr. Nice black widow thru my years and found nothing to even come close to the gal I had.
I find it hard to believe that black widow was even associated with the white widow.
Breeders breed whatever to try to get a close facsimile of the the plant they're trying to copy.
I think gws came out on the upper hand of this.
And if it's anything but pure medicine yuck it's not white widow.
 

Dime

Well-known member
What's the smell on this like?
I've grown out alot of Mr. Nice black widow thru my years and found nothing to even come close to the gal I had.
I find it hard to believe that black widow was even associated with the white widow.
Breeders breed whatever to try to get a close facsimile of the the plant they're trying to copy.
I think gws came out on the upper hand of this.
And if it's anything but pure medicine yuck it's not white widow.
I'm terrible at describing smells but it isn't perfumy . It's has skunk aroma in it ,more than a lot of strains that claim to be skunk. I found one with skunk aroma early and retained it when dry . It also has a bit of an upbeat effect.
 
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maryjaneismyfre

Well-known member
Veteran
Arjan claims to be the creator of WW. He owns the name. Why not believe him? The most important thing is under his belt.

Gypsy Nirvana sells 25 seeds for 25 bucks. And I agree it's a good thing, that's why I'll get some beans of both when the time arrives.

Believe in whatever you want.

There's a third version naming Ingmarr (believe it's the correct spelling) and the fourth claiming it's an "old recipe" from Amsterdam underground, the most credible one, that's why I was talking about the Brazilian musicians. All of them are liars because no one tells the truth, it's a logical statement, btw.

I'll leave a book recommendation with good stories about liars cited in this thread.
Heart of Dankness - Mark Haskell Smith
If you have information, it's a little harder to be fooled by a soft voice.

About Bossa Nova, the creator is João Gilberto, Jobim came after almost 10 years. The man, João, was a shy white person trying to play samba in the Beco das Garrafas, so he played it in a low volume, singing with his low voice, wasn't trying to create anything, this is his original style. Could point a couple of books for the ones interested in Brazilian music by the mouth a Brazilian musician and former music professional.
One doesnt believe arjan, because he is a businessman, and a marketing guy....not a breeder. Arjan never created a strain in his life. There are also rumours about the WW being a haze hybrid, and the Brazilian.indian origins story was just created to muddy the water, but I wasn't there and I don't know what white widow is...I have seen pics of old haze hybrids on there from the widow breeder, and one was reported to be a parent of the widow.

I grew sensi and white label widows back in the day 24 odd years ago, they were one and the same. It was an indica leaning hybrid, sativa stretch and huge indica buds with mad frost even by todays standards, and a kick arse stupifying high, and a menthol and sometimes grapey and others complex but i cant recall exacly these days flavour, I remember would taste like cough syrup. Plants from seed were very uniform, I grew three times from the early widow stock and it was very uniform. Seedlings were like clones of each other, it was the first chronic that I ever grew, the first dutch seed or skunk quality weed. Each time we went to seed, we'd select a plant to clone and mom her it mattered not who we chose as they were all like photocopies of each other...we thought that was just how it was, that weed was meant to be so uniform and dank when you bought seeds..LOL We yielded stupid yields off that stuff in cupboards with streetlamps 250 or 400w hps's, home made reflectors wiith flashing in bubbler buckets. The trim was as frosted as the cookies or best OG based trim is today, resin rails on the leaves. Bud was dense and white with frost, broad leaves dark green and leathery.

When I grew the WW from GHS in the early 2000s, it was mad frosty and superb weed, but completely unmanagable 10-12 week flowering sativa hybrid that would get unruly and climb above the lights reliably, what GHS release then was maybe a widow hybrid, but it was not white widow, to me looked like a widow/haze hybrid. The terps of that GHS widow yes in hindsight it could be said to have some haze terps. The sensi widow of old was a whole other animal. Ingemar and others, are just good cuts saved from those old sensi widows, or original (pre shanti leaving) GHS stuff. Mr nice was started with all the breeders cuts from GHS, Shanti took them with when he left leaving arjan seeds from the parents to work with, that is well documented, and the "black widow" is the white widow apparently, from the old parents but as GHS owned the "white widow" trademark, they respectfully called it something else.

Post the Swiss raids in mid 2000's I assume sensi, or whoever they had outsourced the seed making to, lost the parent stock as theirs and also white label seeds that I grew out afterwards was bunk, not the same at all. And unlike other seed of that time, didnt look viroid infected to me either to be responsible for the change, it was vigourous and terpy and extremely mold resistant but it was just not the widow of old. Completely different thin leaf sativa leaning plants with orange to lemon citrus dominant terp profile in all the girls.

I don't know of Gypseys widow seed, been out the loop, but if he is selling, it will like some other good sources around, be recreations, with old cuts from the proper stuff circa late 90s early 2000s, I am sure. There are some guys that do sell seed fo that, and including Old School Genetics, of which his I have grown, they were true to form. But be wary of all seed made from the old hoarded cuts, viral diseases are in all those old mothers stashed for 20 yrs plus..But they are in most so I am not saying donn't buy anyones recreations, I am just saying germinate with precautions post bleaching, keep seedlings roots and runoff all separate from each other until possible symptoms show, keep from sharing tools without bleaching between plants etc, or have multiple tools soaking in bleach when working, etc..like one should do with any seed as most seedlings from new and old that I've tested had viral passengers...Seeds that are recreations from old widow cuts, you will find superb plants even by todays standards, and you will find superb breeding parents, and as said in most seed sources today and from mid 2000's onwards, there will be a lot of viral shit so its relative.
 
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maryjaneismyfre

Well-known member
Veteran
The guys name is Scott but he calls himself "Shantibaba". That tells me everything I need to know about him.
Yeah and him and Neville bred whole swathes of amazing weed, that is the backbone of a lot of amazing stuff we smoke today, or if not, that one should be smoking as it is superior to most...The majority of cannabis cup winners from almost 4 decades now, have in their ancestry plants that these 2 breeders created, or were themselves plants that they created. Nevermind them founding a couple of seedbanks (or contract bred their seeds for them) which have done pretty ok, all of which are still around.

What's your claim to fame?
 
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Mr. J

Well-known member
Yeah and him and Neville bred whole swathes of amazing weed, that is the backbone of a lot of amazing stuff we smoke today, or if not, that one should be smoking as it is superior to most...The majority of cannabis cup winners from almost 4 decades now, have in their ancestry plants that these 2 breeders created, or were themselves plants that they created. Nevermind them founding a couple of seedbanks (or contract bred their seeds for them) which have done pretty ok, all of which are still around.

What's your claim to fame?
Ya sure he did. None if these guys bred a fucking thing. They went around collecting seeds and growing them out and crossing them to everything else they had. Nevermind that nobody bothered to maintain their mother stock and none of their shit is anything like it was in the early years. Nah I don't give a shit about some guy named Scott from Australia who thinks he's a fucking Sadhu.
 

Raco

secretion engineer
Moderator
ICMag Donor
Veteran
IMG_20240504_161828.jpg
 

Mr. J

Well-known member
It's like, buddy, your name is fucking Scott no I'm not gonna call you Shantibaba you fucking idiot lol.
 

kro-magnon

Well-known member
Veteran
Speaking of old school white widow, I'd like to have some feedback from people who have grown the Old School Genetics version. I have not grown anything from this seeds producers but it seems to be a good option to get a taste of this old legend.
 

xtsho

Well-known member
Arjan claims to be the creator of WW. He owns the name. Why not believe him? The most important thing is under his belt.

Gypsy Nirvana sells 25 seeds for 25 bucks. And I agree it's a good thing, that's why I'll get some beans of both when the time arrives.

Believe in whatever you want.

There's a third version naming Ingmarr (believe it's the correct spelling) and the fourth claiming it's an "old recipe" from Amsterdam underground, the most credible one, that's why I was talking about the Brazilian musicians. All of them are liars because no one tells the truth, it's a logical statement, btw.

I'll leave a book recommendation with good stories about liars cited in this thread.
Heart of Dankness - Mark Haskell Smith
If you have information, it's a little harder to be fooled by a soft voice.

About Bossa Nova, the creator is João Gilberto, Jobim came after almost 10 years. The man, João, was a shy white person trying to play samba in the Beco das Garrafas, so he played it in a low volume, singing with his low voice, wasn't trying to create anything, this is his original style. Could point a couple of books for the ones interested in Brazilian music by the mouth a Brazilian musician and former music professional.

What do you mean by "owns the name." You can't trademark cannabis names.
 

funkyhorse

Well-known member
What irmao Marz bought and is growing is this
At Royal Queen Seeds, our skilled breeders created our own version of this classic using White Widow S1 genetics. Our variety features a perfect genetic balance of 50% indica and 50% sativa. She sits right in the middle of the spectrum and offers the best of both worlds.
The question is what is the WW they made the S1 from.
They say this
According to legend, the original White Widow strain was created when a sativa landrace from Brazil was pollinated by an indica from Kerala, southern India, which was the result of years of selecting and breeding in the mountains to produce resin-rich cannabis plants.
The according to legend part should be remarked, everything is legend in the canna world
The only thing I can say about this legendary S1 weed is it doesnt look like a Kerala sativa crossed to some other legendary sativa supposedly collected in Brazil and I would be very interested to know what kind of imaginative legend are you guys calling brazilian sativa

This is an interesting article about brazilian producers, I am sorry, it is in portughese, use your translators. It is a very good article worth the read for anyone interested in the subject

@Marz
Can you ask the musicians what were they smoking in the 80s?
Do you know these guys? If you do, can you ask them what was the weed in the streets of Rio and Sao Paulo by the time of this concert?


There is a guy caled Ingemar claiming he is the one who made white widow
I handled a lot of charas in my life. I never saw a seed in my charas. I never saw a seed in hash
But this is what Ingemar is claiming
The Father of White Widow
Interview with Ingmar……from the greman cannabis magazine GROW

Grow? Hello Ingemar! You are known as “The father of White Widow” do you see it that way yourself?
Ingemar: Yes you could say that. I created a plant that became known under the name white widow.
Grow? Is the name from you too?
Ingemar: yes the name comes from the spider…
Grow? And “White”, because she´s packed with crystals.?!
Ingemar: Exactally, she is the first in the so called “White Family” later on other strains like white shark came as well
Grow? And what is so special about white widow, what kind of genetics are in her?
Ingemar: Well that of course is a secret! I can tell you this much she´s from two seeds that were breed and stablized for 6 years before being crossed together.
Grow? Where were the seeds from? From friends or from travels
Ingemar? The seeds came out of some hand rubbed hash
Grow? How exactly did you go about this
Ingemar: At that time Cannabis cultivation was not that big of problem in Holland.For the seed production you were allowed to grow big. I had fields that I could plant thousands so I could select the best under them.
Grow? What do you look for in a plant what are your guidelines?
Ingemar: That really is a secert as well. But let me say this I work with cannabis because for a lot of people this is there medicine, that’s how I go about it. That means I have been working with med pat. For over 15 years. I give them there medicine (for free) and they give me feedback on the different strains I gave out. The results were instant. So next to selecting for growth, mold resistance and yeild I also select for medical values.
Grow? How long Have you grown the cannabis plant?
Ingemar: Since 1980, I was 20 years old when I got my first seeds. Since then I have worked with plant on a daily basis 8 to 9 hours a day. During this time I have come to know what the cannabis plant needs to feel good so she will develop nicely. That’s how I came to relize that it takes 6 years for a cannabis seed to become a stable strain.
Grow? So you primarilly grow outdoors?
Ingemar: Yep, that’s what I´ve been doing for years, the plants that you see outside are from seeds that dropped last fall to the ground. They´ve been growing since Febuary.
Grow? Even through frost and bad weather?
Ingemar: Yep, those are some of the hardiest plants you will find they´ve addapted to our climate so good that not even our harsch weather will slow them down.
Grow? That sounds interesting, especially for our friends in the swiss…were can one get these seeds
Ingemar: well not yet, sorry. But when there ready then only at “De Sjamaan”. There you can purcase another strain of mine (purple Widow) she blooms early and gives good results outside. At the moment im working on the taste.
Grow? How exactally do you go about that? Do you plant a lemon tree next to a cannabis plant and the taste smell carry over?
Ingemar: it may sound stupid but you could do it that way, I myself have devloped a different way.
Grow? And that would been…………
Ingemar: when you use a fertilizer based on mango compound, the cannabis plant can obtain the falvor
Grow? And when you use a different fert then you can lose this taste?
Ingemar: Exactally, and that’s why I don´t care for indoor growing so much.Indoor the cannabis plant looses it own character
Grow? But with indoor you can obtain a garden year round. How do you care for your genetics over the winter
Ingemar: I use greenhouses for my mother plants..
Grow? Have you in all this time had problems with the law
Ingemar: Yes I have, I had to cancell our last meeting because I had a visit from the IRS….I was always open and honest with my cannabis growing to the government.and did not have any problems for a long time. A couple of years ago I then got a visit from the police and they took my plants. It came to a court case witch I won because I acted acourding to the law. The locale police assured me they would leave me alone. But then officers from a different district didn´t give a shit, and came by to take my plants away. I warned the police that I would make each one of them personally responceable for my loss, but they did not take me serious. And it turned out like I said free of all charges(again) and now the police have a problem because I followed the law they did not.
Grow?What allows you to grow here in holland when we hear of others grows being busted here in holland
Ingemar: up till 2002 the production of cannabis seeds were legal. Since that has changed ionly grow for scientific reasons. And growing for science is legal, I am the only one, that I know of in holland that can grow legally
Grow? Even indoor
Ingemar: No just outdoors
Grow? And how many are you allowed to grow? 5 is normal right
Ingemar: right, normally 5 per address, but I can grow as much as I like, they can´t do anything!!You have to remember that I´ve been fighting for 25 years against laws that make what I do illegal and since last year I have accomplished what I´ve been fighting for
Grow? But your not allowed to sell weed right?
Ingemar? No grass and no seed sales. I don´t grow for grass or for seeds I grow for science, the seeds that happen to come up are the collected and given to the company De Sjamaan
Grow? I understand…..are all strains at De Sjamaan variations of white widow?
Ingemar: basically yes, I have taken the original white widow and crossed her year for year and selected. That’s how the different strains came about from those two seeds but like I said it takes 6 years to stablize from there on
Grow? How is the Green house white widow? do they have the same one?
Ingemar: Yes it´s the same one. I gave Arjan the genetics and the name years ago he is the only one that has permission to use the name and genetics
Grow? Witch he has done very well with you yourself have not gotten rich?
Ingemar? No, it´s not about the money, to me it´s about the plant and the medical applications I find that´s more important that the money. If it were about the money I doubt I would have won in court!
Grow? Well not everyone thinks like yourself, have you heard of other growers treating there plants with posionious cemicals just for profit?
Ingemar: sure have, I´m currently writing a letter to the Minister complaing about this very thing for years he has allowed chemical weed to be sold in coffeeshops that lead to health risks down the line!
Grow? What kind of chemicals are they using
Ingemar: depends on the situation I have heard of them sprinkling coffee creamer a couple days before harvest to give them a white look or sparying hair spary over them for the same effect
Grow? People really do that
Ingemar: when it´s about money they will do anything
Grow? Do you use any pesticides or anything
Ingemar: no I just let it grow nature takes care of everything if you let it
Grow? But you do use fertilizers
Ingemar: yes, but only my self made mix
Grow? How is the THC content in your strains
Ingemar: I´d rather not take about that at the moment since the government is trying to bann strong marijuana
Grow? Okay back to white widow then, what in your opinion is the reason for the white widow popularity?
Ingemar: she is the first in the white line, she produces so much resin that one gets scared to smoke her. I have had little with her popularity to do all I did was give a coffeeshop dryed product that was entered in different cups and won.
Grow? Was it the weed
Ingemar: that’s what I asked myself, about the time white shark came out and immediately won a cup. I then entered the same weed under the name peacemaker and she won a cup so maybe it was the weed.
www.sjamaan.com This article was translated by
filtertip
 

midwest

Active member
In my mind a lot of Dutch strains like this were coffee shop strains 1st, breeding plants 2nd, and grower plants 3rd.

The "real" white widow is whatever cut got popular in Amsterdam at the shops when it was winning cups or whatever.
Then you have the white widow as a breeder which is how most of us know it. Far more people have grown hybrids than strait white widow.
And then thirdly you have strait white widow bought from a seedbank as white widow, and I don't think that many of those seeds became super popular on it's own.
 
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