Oh NOOOOO - Yellow Seedlings!!

[I2KanGrow]

Help - I'm thinking I may have watered my seedlings too much, but this is my 1st. grow - don't know what I'm doing:



On the left is Northern Light - the right, White Widow - these girls are both 11 days from germination. I have them under 40W ea. CFL's, my grow cabinet temps range from low to upper 80's.

I've watered them w/ distilled H20 on average every other day - The beercups felt light, perhaps not light enough?? Runoff pH is around 6.7.

So, friends... do you think this yellowing is from too much water?? Can I make my little one look a little less yellow, and happier????

Any help is GREATLY appreciated in advance!

 

[Guest]

Usually when I see this I think that maybe the soil mix you started out with is a little too hot. What are you growing in? or Did you poke holes in the bottom of the cups for drainage? or When you put the soil in the cups, did you pack it down too much? These plants seem to like for the dirt to be light, loose and fluffy.


Bh

 

[Legit_User]

Your watering too much.
You need to let the soil dry out.
With plants that small and the beer cups you have I would water maybe 2-3x in 11 days.
When the cup feels light (probably take 3-4 days) give them a light feed of ph'd water and B1.
Stay peacefull

 

[MynameStitch]

iagree with the information here
but another note, when you start seedlings down inside the cup where they are not surroued by fresh air and light they tend to get like this sometimes

I would cut around the cups so they are like in a normal pot with about a 1/2 about the soiline

what soil mixture are you using? and what tempratures are they in

 

[I2KanGrow]

Thanks, Bipedal and Legit!

Bipedal - I planted in 2 parts Agway Potting mix (0.09-0.09-0.09), 1 part Perlite, 1 part Vermiculite - and just a dash of Espoma garden lime, slow release pellets, crushed (all that I could find!).

I added 1 tbsp. of Epsom salts to my gallon of distilled H2O.

My cups do have drainage holes.

Legit..... B1?????

Thanks again!

 

[I2KanGrow]

Ohhhh, Stitch - there's something I didn't think of.... I'll trim the tops of these cups. When I started, the soil was up higher, some has fallen thru the drain holes, and I think there's some compaction. Thanks!

 

[sproutco]

They look soggy.

They look soggy.

PH is too high.

They are old enough to feed (believe it or not). Use only 1/4 teaspoon of 20-20-20 per gallon of water or similar water soluble fert.

In a veg fert you want:

>2-1-2 ratio nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium
>contain all the micros: iron, manganese, zinc, copper, boron, molybdenum
>contain calcium and magnesium if no dol. lime is in the soil or you need to boost levels
>contain sulfur if no gypsum added at planting to the soil or other sulfur based ferts are used
>potassium chloride not in it; instead potassium nitrate, pot. sulfate, or monopotassium phosphate instead

Investigate adjusting the ph of your fert water after mixing to about ph 6. Directions for making your own ph up and down are in my signature. The materials used can be found at the auto parts store or grocery store. Ph test strips can be used from the aquarium section of a pet store. 4 to 7 range will work. Getting a good ph meter that tests liquids should be on your shopping list when you get extra money.



Epsom salts you can get at the drugstore. Powdered gypsum you can find at a good garden center. Call around. Hoffman may be a brand and it comes in small bags like 5 pounds or so.






Plants require nitrogen, phosphorus, potassium , calcium magnesium, sulfur and the micronutrients iron, manganese, zinc, copper, boron, and molybdenum. Dolomite lime is added to soils to supply the calcium and the magnesium. Gypsum is added to supply sulfur.

Your water soluble fert like the 20-20-20 will probably contain all the micros but lack little or any magnesium, sulfur, and calcium. If you did not add dol. lime and gypsum to the soil at planting. You can use 1/8 teaspoon of both powdered gypsum and epsom salts to your regular fert water to provide the cal mag sulfur. This is good to do any way every third or so ferts even with those things put in the soil at soil mixing time. When plants get larger you can increase the gypsum epsom combo to 1/4 teaspoon each when you need a cal mag sulfur boost and soil supplies run low.

Be sure to adjust your water ph to 5.8-6.0 after you have mixed in the light amount of ferts. Acids and bases to use you can find easily around town in my signature "how to make your own ph up and ph down".

Don't forget to keep up with the ph of your soil mix during the grow. You can measure the runoff ph easily to know what your doing. See how to test soil ph in my signature.

Good luck

 

[MynameStitch]

compacted roots and phoshprus absorbtion dont mix, you should never compact the soil to much for seedlings, this can also cause this to happen

your mixture is soiless and the ph should be 5.5 to 6.3

You need to test your ph with some ph test strips from hardware store or the pet store

the ph needs to be slightly more acidic than soil, your using a soiless mixture

 

[Legit_User]

I wouldn't feed them just yet. You did say your soil was already fortified, right?
I wait for the first set of true leaves to mature untill I fert.
Vitamin B1, superthrive, thrivealive, etccc.. was what I meant by b1.
Stay peacefull

 

[I2KanGrow]

Thanks folks - Whew, lottsa good information here. I have some sulfuric acid on-hand, I'll lower the pH of my water to 6.0 using it.

Sproutco - I'm assuming that you're recommending that I should wait till the next normal watering (after they really dry out) before I use the lower pH water, right?

I guess what I'm asking here, is, do you think the yellowing is from too much water (so let her dry-out), or low (oops I mean high) pH (so water her now, to balance pH)?

Anyone - Off-the-subject, sort of: What do the epsom salts do - I thought they were used to raise pH... I'm now sure there's more to it.

Thanks once again!

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

I am leaning on overwatering. Let them dry way out and they will come around. I am concerned with the pre-ferted potting mix. It may be prove to be an issue too.

I suggest leaving them alone and do not water till the cup feels like its almost empty before watering again. I assume you have drainage in the cups. It mayt take a few days before you see any improvement. IMO.

minds_I

eidt: a good indication when its time to water is when the soil pulls away from the sides a little.

 

[I2KanGrow]

Thanks, Minds_I - I guess I just gotta be patient, hang-out, wait & see, eh?

 

[I2KanGrow]

Update - good or bad news???

Update - good or bad news???

Allllrighty - I let the pots get REALLY dry (it took 4 days, but I've learned what a dry pot looks/feels like when DRY), and I re-watered my girls w/ acid-enhanced, Epsom salts-enhanced distilled water - these pictures represent 4 days of "progress" since my last post - 8 Hrs. after re-water.

So, Question... is there any hope for these 2, or should I abandon ship?? should I start a new set of plants (these are Fem seeds - and I only have room for 2 veg/flowers. In the end, I'd like some strong mommies to support my 2 plant rubbermaid cab... also, I don't want to start again if there's any realistic hope for these 2 - my next 2 fem seeds are my last ) What would you do???? (aside from going out and purchase some pot - cause "ya just can't grow!!!"


(Day 14 from seed - White Widow on left - Northern Light on right)

Seriously, Please expand these images - and note the brown edges on the leaves - is this a result of overwatering, nute burn, or either?? (please recall, I used Agway 0.09-0.09-0.09 potting mix here).

For my next attempt, or my re-pot if these should pull thru, I purchased a full bale of Premiere Promix. I made a basic mix (no ferts, seedling mix here!), by mixing to 2 parts Promix, I've added 1 part vermiculite, and 1 part perlite. I've added to each gallon of this mix 1 tablespoon of crushed peletized dolomite lime (I couldn't find anything else - I live in the frozen north, in the sticks, and there's not a lot of choice, locally). There seems to be a bit of confusion throughout the board RE: is promix a type of mix, or a brand - here's what I purchased...



As a test - I ran pH 6.0 water thru the mix - the runoff measured pH of 6.4-6.6

Does this sound OK?

Again - thanks in advance for all of the great advice!

 

[sproutco]

You need to reread my first post that is in detail.

Fert with a low dose of npk + micronutrient fertilizer. If you have not done this do this even if the soil is still moist.

Continue to allow the pots to dry out well between watering.

Ph is high in your new mix. You want 5.6 to 6.2 not 6.4. You probably should not add more dolomite lime to it especially pelletized. It already contains lime. You could mix in gypsum which it does not maybe have in it. 3/4 teaspoon powdered gypsum per gallon of soil or 1 3/4 tablespoon per cubic foot. This will provide sulfur. If your using sulfuric acid to lower your ph to 5.8 to 6 in the fert water after mixing, you can skip this.

Epsom salts are for adding magnesium (and sulfur) to boost levels and it does not change the ph.

 

[treehuggers]

U da man sproutco!!

Thank you for this from me too!

TH

 

[I2KanGrow]

Hey sproutco,

You say:

You need to reread my first post that is in detail.
Fert with a low dose of npk + micronutrient fertilizer. If you have not done this do this even if the soil is still moist.
Continue to allow the pots to dry out well between watering.

I Say:
Thanks for the very quick reply - so, reading between the lines, you suspect low nutes (despite the lamentations from others, of using albeit low dosed ferted potting soil, ...anything with any nutes in it), and a near drowning?

There's certainly a lot of debate over ferting seedlings, even within this thread, I just want to be quite sure that I'm not adding gas to the fire here, should that browning indeed, be nute burns, ya know?

Elseware on these boards, there's also more debate over the pH of Promix - I believe I saw a quote from someone who described promix as being hideously low in pH... it's easy for a black-thumned newbie to get confused here

Hey - you didn't tell me your opinion on whether you think I'll be able to pull these seedlings back into healthy shape... I'd really like your insight here!!!

Thanks!

Oh, I'm hoping you or someone else can answer this: what's the difference between 20-20-20 nutes, versus 10-10-10 nutes @ half strength????

 

[treehuggers]

I was informed it's the same thing.

 

[minds_I]

Hello all,

As you can see the cotyledons (way spelling) are begiinning to yellow-I think pH could be an issue. Man, I never did any good with pre-ferted mixes such as you mentioned.

I grow organic and since I made the move it is so much easier.

If those were my girls- I would gently replant them in a mild organic soil like FFOF or any other of the organic mixes.

Seedling are sensitive to hot soils so I start mine in spent ffof (50/30/20) of/ewc/perlite. Seedlings also have enough on-board food for 2 weeks.

Since your at two weeks now, I would just go with a transplant and water in but don't over water this time. Keeping hte cup a little dry (eg, not sopping wet) will force the plant to root out water. I find it is better to water with measured amounts and let them dry out before adding more.

The measured amounts allow for more frequent waterings-which in this case I think would be a good thing to allow more air to the exisiting roots to help increase recovery.
This is just a theory not based on anything but my own imagination.

This is just my thought friend, when I had seedling issues-this is what I did to fix the problem.

Good luck and great grows,

minds_I

 

[I2KanGrow]

Thanks for the replies, guys... minds_I, since I'm @ 2 weeks, would you agree then, w/ sproutco - that it's time to give the nutes?

 

[minds_I]

Herllo all,

No, I never said give them nutes- I suggest a light organic soil until they recover then give them nutes.

The biggest thing to overcome is the need to over-love your plants- at least for me.

minds_I

edit: As an addendum to the over love issue-I began over time to get lazy with my grow- I want to fed/water them as little as possible so I go in to look in on them and lift them if it is near the time to water and I ask myself-can this one go another day (procrastination at its finest). So, I try to make all my feedings on the same day if possible. I use measured amounts as mentioned above and I can predict fairly accurately how long it will last.

I seem to use the formula of 1/8 the volume of soil liquid to 1 gallon dry soil- so for a 1 gallon pot I would use 16 fl.oz. For my two gallon pots I use a quart liquid.