Off the shelf retail store screw-in LED and CFL bulb comparisons

[Legalcdn]

Yield sounds alright. Why the change?


This 300umol probably gives a good gram per watt. Light is used very efficiently at 300umol. If you use 500umol, the light won't be used as efficiently, and 600 is stating to get a little wasteful. 800 is actually wasteful. From 500 the co2 was becoming a limiting factor and at 800 you really can't get much more growth no matter how much more light you add. You just watch your gram per watt tumble, and plants getting ill. You need extra co2 to pass 800umol.

Great info f-e. I will look to bring c2o into grow.

They flowered 12 weeks.. i used 10.5hr/13.5 after 1st week of flower as they stretched insane.

I switched now to Jack's because i found the megacrop a bit too leafy due to high N in mix..i actually reduced megacrop from 5gr per gallon to 3gr+bud explosion+cal-nit+epson salt. I used Hydrobuddy and a spreadsheet with all nute brands to tune the feed. With Jack's, i can dial it in better with a little bud explosion (in flower), epson salts, cal-nit, and extra micros. Really easy actually. The famous 3.6-2.4-1.2 (jacks,calnit,epson) is too hot for my liking. I like the dry nutes. Just add water.. i think it came to 1.19 gpw. Not bad for SILs only. If anyone wants the spreadsheet..let me know..

 

[piramidon]

https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=82761&pictureid=2029499View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=82761&pictureid=2029498View Image https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php?albumid=82761&pictureid=2029500View Image Ok heres my weird LED light from great value..

LOL, it says "cul us listed" on the side...

 

[PCBuds]

LOL, it says "cul us listed" on the side...

Lol...

 

[blynx]

Maybe I'm just lucky, but I never have problems under LED with seedlings or clones and I'm under 15w bulbs running a canopy of 1.5k-2k umol in both veg and flower.

How are you arriving at 1.5k-2k umol?

He measured it with a garden center meter, in the same post.

Calculations suggest 350umol which is about where problems start creeping in. 600 is pretty sweet if you can keep up. At 800 you about max out, limited by co2. Any more and I struggle. There just isn't the co2 available to complete processes that everything else is available for. In effect, I get co2 deficient.

I saw that. Looks like he's shy of 2,000 foot candles which is about 20,000 lux.

Using a LED\lux to PAR factor of 0.015 (20K * .015) that's 300 umol. A far cry from thousands of umol. Someone's math is off. Maybe mine. Just trying to get the facts straight.

If Terpene's canopy measurements are being taken 3-3.5" below his 15w bulbs (that have the globe removed), then 1.5-2k µmol is accurate.

In his setup, a 300-350 µmol measurement will be seen about 7-8" below the lights.

 

[Rappal]

Hi guy's.
I want to change my setup, actually I have 2 box 100x100, one for mom's and veg, and second one for the bloom. I use cfl for vege and hps400w for bloom. I'm interested to change with led's.
In Italian forum we discuss between todo led, migro, marshydro ecc...

What you suggest ? I have 600-700€ as budget. I can change only hps if led have high price, but I want a good setup. I have no time and skill to construct one, then I prefere to buy a plug and play led sistem.
Thanks to all who will answer me.


GRAZIE !

 

[Im'One]

Hi guy's.
I want to change my setup, actually I have 2 box 100x100, one for mom's and veg, and second one for the bloom. I use cfl for vege and hps400w for bloom. I'm interested to change with led's.
In Italian forum we discuss between todo led, migro, marshydro ecc...

What you suggest ? I have 600-700€ as budget. I can change only hps if led have high price, but I want a good setup. I have no time and skill to construct one, then I prefere to buy a plug and play led sistem.
Thanks to all who will answer me.


GRAZIE !

I have no experience with hps. I will just repeat what i said earlier, i like cfls for vegging and my morher plant prefers them. I use LED for bloom.
I have used xfl for bloom but it takes a few days longer it seems.

 

[Rappal]

I have no experience with hps. I will just repeat what i said earlier, i like cfls for vegging and my morher plant prefers them. I use LED for bloom.
I have used xfl for bloom but it takes a few days longer it seems.

Witch led for bloom ? And what is the size of your bloom area ?

 

[Im'One]

I have a 3 foot by 3 foot area, in other words about a meter square. I have 12 15 watt screw in leds. I use cfls for side lighting, four at 42 watts each.

 

[catman]

If Terpene's canopy measurements are being taken 3-3.5" below his 15w bulbs (that have the globe removed), then 1.5-2k µmol is accurate.

In his setup, a 300-350 µmol measurement will be seen about 7-8" below the lights.

Per the pictures, they sure don't look to be 3" away, but we can let him answer.



I just clocked a 15w 6500K at 3" at 1950 umol so we all know it's possible. I'm just curious if that's what he's really doing because it's my understanding that's about the maximum these plants can handle (~85 DLI.)

 

[MdNewgrower]

Just because.....

Just because.....

.... This thread gave me my quarantine stash....

 

[PCBuds]

.... This thread gave me my quarantine stash....

I've got quarantine stash too... Lol

 

[PCBuds]

I've got quarantine stash too... Lol



[URL=https://i.postimg.cc/y6yd46Yr/20200420-181351.jpg]View Image[/url]



[URL=https://i.postimg.cc/qqwM8w5d/20200420-181455.jpg]View Image[/url]

 

[f-e]

Great info f-e. I will look to bring c2o into grow.

They flowered 12 weeks.. i used 10.5hr/13.5 after 1st week of flower as they stretched insane.

I switched now to Jack's because i found the megacrop a bit too leafy due to high N in mix..i actually reduced megacrop from 5gr per gallon to 3gr+bud explosion+cal-nit+epson salt. I used Hydrobuddy and a spreadsheet with all nute brands to tune the feed. With Jack's, i can dial it in better with a little bud explosion (in flower), epson salts, cal-nit, and extra micros. Really easy actually. The famous 3.6-2.4-1.2 (jacks,calnit,epson) is too hot for my liking. I like the dry nutes. Just add water.. i think it came to 1.19 gpw. Not bad for SILs only. If anyone wants the spreadsheet..let me know..

Some interesting numbers.
Unless you have 800umol on the canopy, which sil users rarely approach, adding co2 is just greenhouse gas creation. More output from more lighting is the better approach.

I say this for everybody, not you specifically. As I see people using co2 to just bugger up their plants and the planet and want to reach through my screen and shake them. It's really quite pointless below 500umol which is passing 50w a foot with LED GLS (general service) lamps.

I have a co2 meter, and every time I work on my ikkle grow, I pass 1000ppm just breathing. Many bedroom growers would do well lighting while they sleep.

 

[Terpene]

I saw that. Looks like he's shy of 2,000 foot candles which is about 20,000 lux.

He measured it with a garden center meter, in the same post.

Calculations suggest 350umol which is about where problems start creeping in. 600 is pretty sweet if you can keep up. At 800 you about max out, limited by co2. Any more and I struggle. There just isn't the co2 available to complete processes that everything else is available for. In effect, I get co2 deficient.

If Terpene's canopy measurements are being taken 3-3.5" below his 15w bulbs (that have the globe removed), then 1.5-2k µmol is accurate.

In his setup, a 300-350 µmol measurement will be seen about 7-8" below the lights.

Per the pictures, they sure don't look to be 3" away, but we can let him answer.

I just clocked a 15w 6500K at 3" at 1950 umol so we all know it's possible. I'm just curious if that's what he's really doing because it's my understanding that's about the maximum these plants can handle (~85 DLI.)

That meter pins hard right (roughly 2500) outside in southern California full sun at noon in July. 2000 is the brightest shade possible - basically full sun and thin leaf cover if the wind rustles the leaves. As you'd imagine, the plants grow very much like they're in my yard, they're just smaller in size (3ft versus 12ft).

The cab you're looking at is 4ft wide x 2ft deep x and 4ft tall. I've recorded the light levels with this meter down the right wall when it was empty. If you look very closely at the brown panel about 2/3rds down the right side you'll see a "750" in black sharpie.

When I first started growing in '08, I took this little light meter to all of my friends gardens with big lights. I tested canopy brightness of multiple light 5k setups, 1000w / 600w / 400w solo HPS, MH, CMH, etc. because I needed an idea of how bright my canopy needed to be.

As a general rule, the guys with 600w (non air cooled) were around 1000umol at center canopy on this meter, while the guys who had air cooled lights could run closer and were usually about 1300umol under the center of the bulb. My friends with 1000w or multiple 1000w bulbs ran 1400-1700umol under the bulb center, the latter being air cooled hoods.

Will cannabis produce bud at 800umol? Absolutely. You can see at the 750 mark (even shaded) the buds look great. The top of my canopy is at the 2000 mark and haven't really seen any issues, very occasionally I see bleaching in the buds. Normally, they just look like they were run at max tilt under big lights.

Boats N Hoes

MAC1

 

[catman]

View Image
Will cannabis produce bud at 800umol? Absolutely. You can see at the 750 mark (even shaded) the buds look great. The top of my canopy is at the 2000 mark and haven't really seen any issues, very occasionally I see bleaching in the buds. Normally, they just look like they were run at max tilt under big lights.]

Your plants look great. We all can see that, but I don't think we are talking apples to apples in terms of measuring light.

The meter you are using looks like a ikkegol 30339. It's a 10 dollar meter where cheap PAR meters are 300+ USD. I have found listings of it claiming it measures lux which there's no way you are only putting out 2k lux at your canopy so I assumed it was foot candles. Converting lux or foot candles from LED differs from HID lights slightly because of their spectrum differences.

 

[gr3k0s]

So drawing inspiration from what I've seen on here, I put together a little cheapie setup using a mixture of Ecolite $1 2700k and 5000k 13w LED globes (minus diffusers), 2 x cheap amazon 10w LED grow bulbs (minus diffusers) and two 7-1 light splitters off amazing for $8.99ea

Unknown seeds, growing in my own soil mixture.

I still have to paint my box and finish it, currently 4 weeks in.

 

[f-e]

Your plants look great. We all can see that, but I don't think we are talking apples to apples in terms of measuring light.

The meter you are using looks like a ikkegol 30339. It's a 10 dollar meter where cheap PAR meters are 300+ USD. I have found listings of it claiming it measures lux which there's no way you are only putting out 2k lux at your canopy so I assumed it was foot candles. Converting lux or foot candles from LED differs from HID lights slightly because of their spectrum differences.

His meter might look poor, but he's using it appropriately, with a working calibration method. There is the question of how much of the canopy is 3" from a lamp though, when there aren't 9 lamps per foot and a perfectly level canopy. This strips 1500 to ~350 in one move.

My figures given earlier are average, not peak. Some of my 800umol canopy is over 1500umol, but that same plant has bits lit a lot lower than 800umol also.

Unfortunately I don't have a gls (sil) grow. I do have led grow pics though and my album is open to anybody.

 

[catman]

His meter might look poor, but he's using it appropriately, with a working calibration method. There is the question of how much of the canopy is 3" from a lamp though, when there aren't 9 lamps per foot and a perfectly level canopy. This strips 1500 to ~350 in one move.

We are all friends here. I never said anyone's growing wrong or using pointless tools, but I do believe there is some confusion regarding metrics of light and the tools to measure them.



To clarify. PAR meters which can measure umols are costly. A good one is like $600. Lux and foot candle meters are much more affordable and knowing the type of lighting we are working with and lux or FC, we can use a factor to convert them to a umol estimation. For example 20,000 lux X a factor of .015 for white LEDS is 300 umol. The meter in question is showing shy of 2,000? 2,000 what? To me, it seems it's 2,000 foot candles which is about 20K lux so 300 umol.



Again, perhaps my math and method are wrong. I'll I'm calling out is there is a big difference between 300 umol and 1,500 to 2,000 umol.

 

[Sunshineinabag]

popularity contest lol

 

[Terpene]

I think its important to note my 1.5-2k reading is at top of canopy and 1k is where most of the body of the plants lie. The inverse square law (and blynx's measurements early in this thread) should give you an idea of penetration / reach.

My ghetto light meter was not intended to replace more expensive light meters that are made for this sort of thing. I was creating an easily repeatable test that any newbie could cheaply recreate in their setup to get an idea of what works and what doesn't based on real world experiences. A friend of mine has an expensive PAR meter and has offered to bring it by when COVID blows over. It will be interesting to compare those numbers to outdoor, his gardens, etc.

I made this graphic back when everyone was transitioning away from CFLs:

Just for giggles, here's a shot from 2011. This is what 600-1000 looked like in 575w Mixed Spectrum 2700k, 3500k, 5000k & 104w Red Spectrum CFLs:

A foot candle breakdown of big lights from 420mag:

The swing style cheapie light meter reads the following in these outdoor circumstances:
Full sun: 2500
Bright shade:1500-1700 (depending on your definition of what bright shade looks like)
Shade: 1000

And top of canopy in big light setups:
1000w: 1400-1700
600w: 1000-1100
400w: 800-1000