Nute deficiency ID help

[hamstring]

I'm new to organics too man and I have alot of the same problems you've mentioned. I had some recently that were perfect all the way through veg, but within 2 weeks of flower, they were all fucked up. I also get the yellowing on the leaf margins. It seems to only happen in soil with organics. Also it seems like it happens to me when humidity is low, especially this time of year. Ive read that potassium is easily washed out in soils with alot of water runoff. Unfortunately I dont have any answers to any of this. I've wondered everything from vpd to nutrients. Only real advice I can give is to research the deficiencies and conduct experiments with the clones till u get it right. I'm still trying to figure it out myself! Let us know if u figure out the cure!

What up Bob and thanks for being honest. Your comments actually help a lot in my opinion. It points out that this may be a common problem that others have dealt with. I do have very low RH and low temps giving me a VPD of between 1.7 - 1.6.

Hang in there with me brother we will figure this out.

 

[hamstring]

I wish I had a definitive answer for you on the clone issue, unfortunately I don't. All I can tell you is that what you're experiencing is not uncommon, I've seen many people report similar problems and I've experienced it myself. I read somewhere once that as long as that there is any part of the cutting that looks green and healthy then just keep letting it go and eventually roots should appear. So I've kept that in the back of my mind. Mostly I get roots within 7 days but I've had many go as long as 3 weeks before roots showed. Usually when that happens there will be a small percentage that just never produce roots and eventually die off like maybe 2 out of a couple of dozen. The last several grows I've done were all SOG style grows which is why I would need so many clones. What drives me nuts is they're all getting the same treatment, they all have the same environment, they all come from the same set of mothers and they all use the same rapid rooters and cloning gel. So it's a mystery why most do so well but some take significantly longer and some never make it. The only thing I can figure is even though I handle them all the same way, on some I'm not doing as well as I do with the ones that do root quickly even though I might think I handled them properly.

Interesting, Well I'm sad to say I tossed all my cuttings out. Never seen cuttings go for 18 days with out showing roots. The roots may not be sticking out of the riot rooters but if I carefully pulled them apart i would see some sign of small roots. ------Nothing this time.

To make it even more weird : I have a heating mat under my dome set at 75 degs F. I accidentally let the riot rooters dry out around 12 days into cloning and the cuttings wilted. When I watered them again and they all popped right back up. In the past if that happened I was almost 100% guaranteed the cuttings that popped back had roots and the ones that stayed wilted did not have roots.

Anyway, this is just a red herring for this thread and all I am doing is confusing the people who are trying to help me. I will stay on topic from now on.

Back to my original nute deficiency problem.
I haven't checked the run off but I will thats a promise. One thing I checked on that you mentioned was over watering. I am almost positive I am not overwatering. I let them go without water for around 24hrs and they wilted. They are drinking a lot of water due to being in flower and the low RH in the room. I am going to rule out over watering.

Thanks for helping keeping this thread active. Its always a battle to keep eyeballs on your thread long enough for peeps to chime in with the answer/advice you are looking for.

 

[hamstring]

"I do not PH my water. I do not have a EC pen."

That's the problem. I you are going to add anything to your medium, you'll want to know exactly what the pH and PPMs are.

Before that, I would flush with 1/4 strength high P/K flowering food (P stimulates root growth) and a tiny amount of Epsom Salt (Mg for healthy leaves). Flush very slowly and thoroughly, and then let the medium dry for a couple of days.

The plants look like they are having several (Mg, K, Ca or P) mobile nutrient deficiencies, however that are most likely the plant's most used nutrients, and the nutrients are being locked out by too high a PPM or too low a pH in the medium.

Thanks for chiming in.
I have checked the PH of my water and it is high 8-8.5. As per hempkat the next step for me to do is check the PH of runoff. Once I get that done I will post it. As stated in the original post I did water once with a 0-10-10 but its not organic and I wanted to stay away from this solution. I have a zero problems with non-organic ferts I was just trying my hand at living soil. I wanted to fix the problem organically.

 

[BobChronic6505]

What strain r u growing and what week of flower r u in

 

[120Octane]

To be honest I walked from the organic ect approach..The reason was I started to send samples to be gas chromography tested so I know what is in the input...

I found out aluminum is high, cadmium, and salts..Its pretty much animal blood,bone or poop that is used..Sure you can use fermented soy beans for a N source but its crazy salty as soy sauce is...

I am now mainly rock dust, bone ash food grade is the only animal derived item I use, its for pottery glazing...

Most people will say its salts and the honesty is its a fraction vs what the organic inputs were...surprise lol...

As far as P.H. alot believe it does not matter...it all boils down to chemistry and yes you do need to know the P.H.

Crop steering, jump on instagram pull up flora flex tech support pqge...They have a formula to tell you how much to feed per gallon size of the pot, and also how many times a day vs what week veg or flower you are at...Not to be hatefull at all, alot of decades as a farmer of pot and as more have become legal states the amount of new people and alot of myth's have exploded...

Find slownickle hear or on the gram and send him a mssg, have a chat...So many of us have changed, become informed with quality information because he is a agronimist with 40 yeqrs feild experiance as a organic produce guy...

 

[hamstring]

What strain r u growing and what week of flower r u in

Cocoa OG & GG4

 

[hamstring]

To be honest I walked from the organic ect approach..The reason was I started to send samples to be gas chromography tested so I know what is in the input...

I found out aluminum is high, cadmium, and salts..Its pretty much animal blood,bone or poop that is used..Sure you can use fermented soy beans for a N source but its crazy salty as soy sauce is...

I am now mainly rock dust, bone ash food grade is the only animal derived item I use, its for pottery glazing...

Most people will say its salts and the honesty is its a fraction vs what the organic inputs were...surprise lol...

As far as P.H. alot believe it does not matter...it all boils down to chemistry and yes you do need to know the P.H.

Crop steering, jump on instagram pull up flora flex tech support pqge...They have a formula to tell you how much to feed per gallon size of the pot, and also how many times a day vs what week veg or flower you are at...Not to be hatefull at all, alot of decades as a farmer of pot and as more have become legal states the amount of new people and alot of myth's have exploded...

Find slownickle hear or on the gram and send him a mssg, have a chat...So many of us have changed, become informed with quality information because he is a agronimist with 40 yeqrs feild experiance as a organic produce guy...

I appreciate the the input and looked at the website. Not knocking anyones growing method. I plan on taking the organic method outside.

 

[HempKat]

I appreciate the the input and looked at the website. Not knocking anyones growing method. I plan on taking the organic method outside.

Good on you man, when it comes to indoor growing I say it's to each their own and don't make a fuss about whether people want to grow organically or with store bought formulations of nutrients. When it comes to outdoor grows though there is already too much unnatural crap being put in the soil and spreading around via nature and effecting things that the last thing we need is another grower putting more stuff into the earth that just adds to all the other unnatural crap going on.

 

[hamstring]

Good on you man, when it comes to indoor growing I say it's to each their own and don't make a fuss about whether people want to grow organically or with store bought formulations of nutrients. When it comes to outdoor grows though there is already too much unnatural crap being put in the soil and spreading around via nature and effecting things that the last thing we need is another grower putting more stuff into the earth that just adds to all the other unnatural crap going on.

Hempkat

Thanks I have always wanted to go organic. The last few years I have been using mushroom compost to grow a few veggies in raised beds .There is a guy near me who gets in piles of it and you can buy it by the yard. To me it looks and smells like horse manure. I rototill it in and throw some straw on top, from a local farmer, for moisture retention and weed control. It has worked just fine.

Cannabis, unfortunately, was illegal in IL until a few years ago. I have been guerrilla growing for over 25yrs. Most of the time I was a bike and a kayak ride away from my plots making organic growing impossible. Cannabis can not compete with native vegetation in my neck of the woods. You have to use ferts.

I am new to indoor growing and everything that goes with it. I have made a couple runs at organic growing but each time my knowledge of the technique has been lacking. Actually scratch that , my indoor growing knowledge in general has been lacking. Totally different animal than outdoor growing.

I dont want two different techniques for outdoor and indoor. Why double your learning curve.

 

[hamstring]

So because I am greedy and dont want my small crop to suffer extensive yield loss I have watered twice with 0-10-10. The second time was just today. Too early to say but it looks like it was nute deficiency vs too much.

Of course I have very rudimentary knowledge of nute lock out so I guess it could also be a PH problem. We will find out once I check run off and my PH kit comes in the mail to adjust my water PH.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Thanks for chiming in.
I have checked the PH of my water and it is high 8-8.5. As per hempkat the next step for me to do is check the PH of runoff. Once I get that done I will post it. As stated in the original post I did water once with a 0-10-10 but its not organic and I wanted to stay away from this solution. I have a zero problems with non-organic ferts I was just trying my hand at living soil. I wanted to fix the problem organically.

200PPM of the 0-10-10 once or twice during the grow isn't going to make a non-organic grow or disturb the microbes too much.

The pH is pretty high. I found that if you let chlorene dissipate by leaving it next to your plants for a couple of hours or more, both the pH and PPM are lower. In organics the pH should be 7.0, so the microbes have a range of 6.0 to 8.0 to survive in.

 

[hamstring]

200PPM of the 0-10-10 once or twice during the grow isn't going to make a non-organic grow or disturb the microbes too much.

The pH is pretty high. I found that if you let chlorene dissipate by leaving it next to your plants for a couple of hours or more, both the pH and PPM are lower. In organics the pH should be 7.0, so the microbes have a range of 6.0 to 8.0 to survive in.

Tanza
Thank you for the info. That makes me feel better. I do let the chlorine dissipate overnight and the PH is still high. I have a water softener but according to what I have read it does not affect the PH.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

I have a water softener but according to what I have read it does not affect the PH.

And water softener adds sodium to the water, which is very bad for plants.

Filtering would be the next alternative. Filtered water has to be remineralized with magnesium lime and multi-minerals. A quick way is to soak a teaspoon of magnesium lime in a quart of filtered water for a day, pour off the clean water, and add to 3 quarts of filtered water. I've tried that myself and it works in preventing for instance magnesium deficiency.

PS - Correction. When I said water should stand out for at least a couple of hours to let chlorene dissipate, I meant at least a couple of days, also depending on the temperature.

 

[HempKat]

Hempkat

Thanks I have always wanted to go organic. The last few years I have been using mushroom compost to grow a few veggies in raised beds .There is a guy near me who gets in piles of it and you can buy it by the yard. To me it looks and smells like horse manure. I rototill it in and throw some straw on top, from a local farmer, for moisture retention and weed control. It has worked just fine.

Cannabis, unfortunately, was illegal in IL until a few years ago. I have been guerrilla growing for over 25yrs. Most of the time I was a bike and a kayak ride away from my plots making organic growing impossible. Cannabis can not compete with native vegetation in my neck of the woods. You have to use ferts.

I am new to indoor growing and everything that goes with it. I have made a couple runs at organic growing but each time my knowledge of the technique has been lacking. Actually scratch that , my indoor growing knowledge in general has been lacking. Totally different animal than outdoor growing.

I dont want two different techniques for outdoor and indoor. Why double your learning curve.

I hear you but how do you avoid it? It's not the legality of the plant that makes indoor growing a different animal even if you do organic both indoor and outdoor there are still different things to deal with since as you say indoor is a totally different animal than outdoor growing?

 

[hamstring]

Ok I got a chance to test my runoff. Its difficult to tell from the photo but the test strip on top was tested straight into my water before completing the runoff test. The two strips below were tested in my runoff. You can see a difference in color. My water is around 8-85. and my runoff is at 7-7.5. Still a little high but not for soil. I am going to PH down the water but still dont have a complete picture of the problem. The data collected will help moving forward.

The second picture is my PH kit that arrived in the mail today. I'm spending money I dont have but I have it now so I cant get lambasted by the community.

 

[TanzanianMagic]

That's magnesium deficiency/lockout in early flowering. It is mobile (N, P, K, Mg) and there is the soapy and blueish look to the leaves.

I just realized I'd already answered the question.

Happy Holidays.

 

[BobChronic6505]

hamstring what ever happened with this crop? Did you change anything, and if so did the deficiency signs go away?

 

[BobChronic6505]

That's magnesium deficiency/lockout in early flowering. It is mobile (N, P, K, Mg) and there is the soapy and blueish look to the leaves.

I just realized I'd already answered the question.

Happy Holidays.

Hey man can I ask you, what do you think about this?

 

[TanzanianMagic]

Hey man can I ask you, what do you think about this?

The best thing to do is to start a thread, and put all the information about your grow in there.

 

[Three Berries]

I have potassium problems with OF vs the HF FoxFarm soils.

I got some KMAg 0-0-22 and it say it can be used as a top dressing with no over nute or pH problems. I have been adding small amounts to the water but maybe need more directly in the soil.