Not sure what to make of this

[Frankenstipe]

We transplanted about a week ago into 3 1/2 gallon pots from 3 1/2 inch, 1 quart and 5 1/2 inch pots using Roots Organic Soil. They are under a 1000W MH light which is about about 3 - 5 feet away from the tops. They have been sprayed twice since the transplanting, once with AzaMax and once with Spinosad. They've been given Bat Guano, Kelp, Hygrozyme, Oregonism, Bio Heaven, and Liquid Karma. Water ph is 6.3 every time from a charcoal filter that is almost brand new. Temp is around 75 and humidity is around 85. They have a fan blowing on them as well, maybe a little too hard. There is a 6 inch axial fan hooked up to some 4 inch insulated ducting for the exhaust with no intake.

The first pic is mostly because of mite damage we think, but they feel dry and look wierd so we're not really sure if anything else is going on there.

The last two are what has just showed up in the last day or two. The new growth is starting to turn yellow on the tips and the inner part of the leaves are curling upwards while the tips are curling downwards. Same thing with the older leaves as well.

Any information would be helpful, we were hoping to flip to flower within the week.

EDIT: My friend said it might just be a nutrient burn due to the usage of Hygrozyme and Oregonism. Can anyone confirm this or is more info needed, are better or more pics needed?

 

[magiccannabus]

Definite nutrient burn. Probably too much nitrogen locking out other nutrients.

As for the mites, get them under control before you flower, or you will definitely regret it. They're not a plant pest to mess around with. Just make sure mites is what you actually have. Have you seen them? Any webbing?

 

[Frankenstipe]

Yeah the spot we're doing this in is definitely mite territory. They were really bad off a couple weeks ago, lots of webbing, but it's mostly all gone now thanks to regular spraying. We've Neemed with peppermint many times before transplanting. The flower room is not exactly sealed yet but we're still trying to figure out how to deal with that. The mites aren't anywhere near as bad as that leaf makes it look. I haven't really seen any that are moving since we transplanted, I have seen a few fungus gnats flying around though, definitely need to Neem soon.

Thanks for the confirmation of a nutrient burn, should we just use straight water until they look healthier or should we just do half dose on everything? Would it be ok to flip them into flower before they start to look better or should we wait?

It's my friends deal mostly I'm just there to learn and help out, he probably already knows what he wants to do I just like to hear others opinions on the matter.

 

[jonnybgood29]

yeah, its definite nute burn..... i always deal with it by doing a thorough flush with plain water, then in the last gallon of water, i go to half nutes. wait till they dry out, then go to normal nute routine. they should be fine, but dont flower until you see normal growth again for at least three nodes, or you will no get much in the way of yield or stretch!

 

[magiccannabus]

Yeah the spot we're doing this in is definitely mite territory. They were really bad off a couple weeks ago, lots of webbing, but it's mostly all gone now thanks to regular spraying. We've Neemed with peppermint many times before transplanting. The flower room is not exactly sealed yet but we're still trying to figure out how to deal with that. The mites aren't anywhere near as bad as that leaf makes it look. I haven't really seen any that are moving since we transplanted, I have seen a few fungus gnats flying around though, definitely need to Neem soon.

If there's one thing in this game I've been "blessed with" it's a scourge of plant pests. I've had all sorts of nasties, even corn borer worms get into my girls. Those things are nasty, they eat the stem hollow from end to end, kind of a nightmare really. Up until the last half of flowering, and in your veg space, you can use Hot Shot "No Pest Strips". They put out a low amount of a vapor that is especially toxic to the reproductive systems of insects, and it keeps them from making eggs. It only sorta kills the living ones if they're thriving. Mites are always best dealt with in a multi-faceted approach.

Humidity over 70% R/H can be lethal to spider mites, but not all types of mites. Cold temperatures slow down their eating, mating, and growth. Garlic is toxic to a lot of bugs, and sprinkling some powdered garlic(NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH GARLIC SALT!) on the top of the soil can ward off gnats and whiteflies because they can't lay their eggs in the dirt like they want to. I'm just saying you need a holistic approach with it, tackle it with chemicals, and environmental changes and you'll be fine.

Thanks for the confirmation of a nutrient burn, should we just use straight water until they look healthier or should we just do half dose on everything? Would it be ok to flip them into flower before they start to look better or should we wait?

You want your vegetative growth at it's peak when you switch to flower. In veg the nitrogen uptake causes the plant to become more green, but in flower that slows down a great deal and so that nitrogen is reserved in the form of fan leaves, which will wilt as the plant nears completion. So if they're already bad, they'll just get worse. At best they'll just stabilize somewhat and your yield will suffer.

 

[Frankenstipe]

Cool, thanks for the help. By the way, has anyone here ever had grass growing in their soil before, we've seen a few little blades of grass here and there. One of our friends had some mushrooms growing out of his, lucky him.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

By the way, has anyone here ever had grass growing in their soil before, we've seen a few little blades of grass here and there.

Frakenstipe

It's not uncommon to see that when using good organic compost. When correctly made, the heat generated by the composting process kills weed & grass seeds but some seem to always get through.

Seeing mushrooms on the top of a soil mix isn't uncommon if you're running good compost with a lot of fungai populations bumped up with aerated compost teas and adding pure humic and fulvic acids. They're fun to watch but usually they're dead after a couple of days. The definitely do not like need seed oil!

CC

 

[pokerfish]

A different take for you FS, perhaps it isn't nute burn... not knowing your feeds/run-offs, very difficult to say. If the former pic is mite damage, I'll trust you as not too clear w/o close-ups. The second pic is not nute burn by my best estimation however.

You used Azamax (neem derivative) & Spinosad (bacillus) as a foliar. These are phytotoxic to mj when applied @ full-strength, under lights with heat. Same thing is true for... can't recall name, but another natural fungicide product widely used within community... oh shit...? It has happened for me... to the best of my knowledge, everything is phytotoxic if the conditions are correct. The leaves are dying due to toxicity. You also applied more than once. Where ever it pools on the leaves, they will likely die, again especially under the lights. Plus, there are chemical agents in the foliar.

Second, cut your humidity down immediately. If you don't already have a fungal problem, you very soon will, especially in late bloom. At 70-80% you've got concerns of downy mildew on the leaves (& you're foliar spraying too!) & even botrytis on the stems... Don't think this relates to the pics (yet), but it stood out to me soon as I read it.

If this is toxicity due to foliar, the plants are stressed, so flushing & lowering your nute levels for a few days isn't a bad idea. In the mean time, stop foliar feeding & lower humidity. Bet they won't get any worse, at least not from the afore pic'd symptoms.

Give the Azamax time to work... it is a translaminar- gets into the plant & works it's way throughout. As the mites eat your plant, they take in the neem derivative that functions on the mites through hormone disruption- they can't eat/reproduce. It does not kill them right away, or within a day or two, or a week. Give it time. Spinosad works differently as a live culture that I believe is poisonous to the mites, though never used it myself, so... BTW, you can soil drench the Azx, so stop foliar spraying your poor little babies!

Best.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

Spinosad works differently as a live culture that I believe is poisonous to the mites, though never used it myself, so... BTW, you can soil drench the Azx, so stop foliar spraying your poor little babies!

Best.

Spinosad explained here

Spinosad kills susceptible species by causing rapid excitation of the insect nervous system. Due to this unique mode of action, Spinosad is valued in resistance management programs. Spinosad must be ingested by the insect, therefore it has little effect on sucking insects and non-target predatory insects. Spinosad is relatively fast acting. The insect dies within 1 to 2 days after ingesting the active ingredient and there appears to be no recovery.

From my experience, Spinosad is effective up to a point. The best chance of getting a handle using it is to concentrate in the veg cycle. If you have any amount of flower development (meaning the mites have hiding places) then it's not effective to any great degree.

I use need seed oil 2x a week in veg cycle and through the first 2 weeks of the flower cycle against mites and equally importantly against powdery mildew which is a major problem in this part of the country.

Need seed oil is far less expensive per application than Spinosad ends up costing.

HTH

CC

 

[Frankenstipe]

Yeah we got some new perspective last night from another friend of ours saying that it could just be the plants not liking the AzaMax and Spinosad. Thanks for the info Pokerfish and Clackamas.